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Thoughts on scope for 21" .308?


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My first real rifle. The 16" would seem to be a more practical gun, but I figured what the hell, if I don't like 21" I can always cut it down. Be a lot tougher to add 5 inches.

 

I was of course drooling over the idea of the RFB when I ran into the saiga. Actually I was thinking about a stevens 200, knowing I wouldn't/shouldn't afford the kel tec (plus, geez its a keltec).

 

Somehow ran into the saiga, and once I read about some owners getting 1moa out of it, I thought "hell I'll take a chance on that". Sort of a jack of all trades rifle. Well, okay I wouldn't use it for squirrel meat.

 

So I started thinking about mid-range optics, until I started pricing the ones that weren't crap. I'm definitely budget minded. So I've got a couple scopes I've narrowed down.

 

Since it's my first rifle, I really should just go out and shoot it with irons first, but I already have a UTG QD side mount on the way.

 

Scope 1and 2: Cheap and dirty. BSA 3-10 x 40 which is $75, weatherproof, fully multicoated. Standard reticle. The price would suggest it is crap, but the reviews at midway are glowing: 125 people agreed with and 0 people disagreed with the review "Excellent manufactured scope! Provides clear view just as the more expensive brands at a fraction of the cost. Useful features. Dollar for dollar worth every penny!"

 

Or I could pick up a 3-9 x40 PO scope from freedom optics for the same price. The PO would have the military range estimating reticle, I think. Anyone know for sure?

 

Scope 2 and 3: both $200, both frequently compared favorably, but not equally to $600 scopes. Both have mil. reticles: Mueller Tactical 4-16×50mm and Swift M687 4.5-14x44. Only advantage to the $70 PO that I can figure is the extended range. Since I'm pretty sure I've read 9x will get you out to 500m, and I haven't found a place to shoot yet period, much less half a mile, it might be silly to spend the extra $130 here.

 

Scope 4: $400. Falcon Optics Menace 4-14x44mm FFP with MP20 reticle. Apparently snipercentral is a (or the) us distributor for this brand. The scope to seems to be well thought of, though it isn't even available yet. Better optics and reticle than scope 2 or 3, and I *really* like the idea of the front focal plane. Not available til at least march. More than I want to spend. Even though "everyone" says you should not skimp on the scope, I can't help but think, "yeah, but I could get a PO, a PKAS and 100 rounds of ammo for that price"

 

Any thoughts, obeservations, etc. on those choices?

 

Also, on the UTG QD rail, what do people think of using the 90 degree weaver mount to hang a red dot off the side with scope on top? Still haven't worked out the ergonomics and won't know until I've changed stocks (I'm glad I didn't shoulder the rifle until after I bought it, because man, it really just doesn't fit, even with the iron sights). Since I've never seen it done, it must be a really noobish idea. I've seen smaller red dots mounted on TOP of main scopes before .. how would you attach them to the scope?

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The POSP fixed magnification scopes tend to have pretty decent glass for their price. Given the inherent accuracy of the S308, anything more than 6x is probably unnecessary. I had one POSP that was just a POS, but have had others that were just great for the price. Spending more is unnecesary, save the $'s for ammo, or better yet some mags while they are still obtainable.

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I read that it's good to avoid mounting on the receiver if you can. Apparently, the receiver expands from heat, affecting accuracy. I can't comment from first hand experience.

hmm nope that side mount is about the coolest place to mount it :rolleyes: i guess they better rethink the dragunov scope setup then. maybe they were talking about on a full auto RPK or something :lolol:

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I read that it's good to avoid mounting on the receiver if you can. Apparently, the receiver expands from heat, affecting accuracy. I can't comment from first hand experience.

hmm nope that side mount is about the coolest place to mount it :rolleyes: i guess they better rethink the dragunov scope setup then. maybe they were talking about on a full auto RPK or something :lolol:

 

 

 

well, here is my .02 cents on this. I tend to take a very practical look a things, not at anything that is trendy. So, here is what I persoanlly think. Go with a fixed 6x that illuminates the reticle and has a fixed mount. YOu will have between $120-200 in it. I read those reviews too, but let me ell you that many of those scopes really are not worth the money. I have seen several BSA's fail in our hunting club on well cared for rifles, and that is in the very mild weather of SC. Also, the combo of the mount/base, + rings, + scope diameter will place the scope very high, so high that you will have no chance what soever of proper cheek contact with the buttstock, and that is crucial to really long range accuracy that i think you are striving for. By going with a PSOP type scope it is somewhat lower, and E&L manufacturing makes cheekpieces that bolt right on and are a big help in this regard.

 

Also, you were likely a little better to go with the 21' IMHO. Sopeaking strictly ballistically, if you want the best performace from your gun, this is the way to go. the 308 in a 16: barrel gives performance on par with the 30-40krag or less, putting it fairly close to 30-30 class. This is still adequate for 200yds absolute max on deer-size game, but the 21" gives you a considerable boost in performance. It also places the muzzle farter away and gives the powder more time to burn, thus producing less flash, blast, and recoil.

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I read that it's good to avoid mounting on the receiver if you can. Apparently, the receiver expands from heat, affecting accuracy. I can't comment from first hand experience.

hmm nope that side mount is about the coolest place to mount it :rolleyes: i guess they better rethink the dragunov scope setup then. maybe they were talking about on a full auto RPK or something :lolol:

 

 

 

well, here is my .02 cents on this. I tend to take a very practical look a things, not at anything that is trendy. So, here is what I persoanlly think. Go with a fixed 6x that illuminates the reticle and has a fixed mount. YOu will have between $120-200 in it. I read those reviews too, but let me ell you that many of those scopes really are not worth the money. I have seen several BSA's fail in our hunting club on well cared for rifles, and that is in the very mild weather of SC. Also, the combo of the mount/base, + rings, + scope diameter will place the scope very high, so high that you will have no chance what soever of proper cheek contact with the buttstock, and that is crucial to really long range accuracy that i think you are striving for. By going with a PSOP type scope it is somewhat lower, and E&L manufacturing makes cheekpieces that bolt right on and are a big help in this regard.

 

Also, you were likely a little better to go with the 21' IMHO. Sopeaking strictly ballistically, if you want the best performace from your gun, this is the way to go. the 308 in a 16: barrel gives performance on par with the 30-40krag or less, putting it fairly close to 30-30 class. This is still adequate for 200yds absolute max on deer-size game, but the 21" gives you a considerable boost in performance. It also places the muzzle farter away and gives the powder more time to burn, thus producing less flash, blast, and recoil.

 

 

Just one thing. The maximum deer distance for a .308 out of a 21 or 16" barrel is ALOT further than 200yrds. 200-250 is about the point where the .308 drops below 2000ft/lb of energy which is the minimum for MOOSE. Deer, being anywhere from 50 to 20% or less the size of a moose (550-1300lbs vs. 250lb Muledeer or BIG whitetail) I'd say with a .308 you can take deer out to 400 cleanly, especially if you have a 1-2MOA rifle. Vitals are what? 10" on a deer?

 

View : http://federalammo.com/ballistics/Ammo_Sea...earm=1&s1=1 for some ballistics on .308. The 180gr bullet in the Premium Vital Shok hits 2000ft/lbs at about 250yrds. 70% of 2000 is 1400, which the same bullet retains out to 500 yrds. Considering the Muzzle Energy of 7.62x39 is about 1500 ft/lbs and people take deer with them all the time, I'd say that a 500yrd .308 shot, with proper placement, would be fine for any deer.

Edited by SaigaNoobie
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  • 3 weeks later...

I have two questions for you. First, what are your intentions? Are you looking for a scope for shooting at paper, hunting, or both, and if hunting the type of game you would be hunting? What distances do you expect to shoot from and will you be shooting from a blind or bench or will you carry the rifle in the field? Are you interested in a sporting or mil type of reticle or either? All can make a diffence as to the type of scope that would be appropriate.

 

Second, what is your price range? You mentioned scopes ranging from $75.00 to $400.00, which covers a wide range of quality.

 

Finally, there are a lot of scopes from quality manufacturers such as Leupold, Bushnell, Burris, and Nikon to name a few that would fit within the $200 to $400 range, and are probably as good or better quality scopes than the models you mentioned.

Edited by bob_L
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I have two questions for you. First, what are your intentions? Are you looking for a scope for shooting at paper, hunting, or both, and if hunting the type of game you would be hunting? What distances do you expect to shoot from and will you be shooting from a blind or bench or will you carry the rifle in the field? Are you interested in a sporting or mil type of reticle or either? All can make a diffence as to the type of scope that would be appropriate.

 

Second, what is your price range? You mentioned scopes ranging from $75.00 to $400.00, which covers a wide range of quality.

 

Finally, there are a lot of scopes from quality manufacturers such as Leupold, Bushnell, Burris, and Nikon to name a few that would fit within the $200 to $400 range, and are probably as good or better quality scopes than the models you mentioned.

 

Sorry, I probably should have updated :o

 

I went with the 8x POSP

 

I've never even shot a rifle before so it really would be mall ninja territory if I were to speculate on how I would be using it. My general thinking was for providing anything from meat to defense between scenarios on the scale of Economic Depression to SHTF, with a mind to the fact that small critters up to (optimistically) 100 yards are already covered by my AR7. While I don't expect to ever need to shoot out to the potential range of the [saiga] rifle, it would seem a waste to me to not have that capability.

 

In the meantime, before the economy tanks, we run out of oil and the crops all fail, I will be shooting paper at 100 and 200 yds (I found a range).

 

My initial impression is that it will be great for deer, but I really am going to want the PK-AS too, to fulfill the defense role. Also, the diopter adjustment doesn't seem to do squat, and while the optics seem to be quite clear, I'm not sure that the overall build quality is worth the price.

 

I'll post back and report my noob take on it once I get it to the range and sighted in.

Edited by rccola
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I got a POSP 6x24 scope and it worked out good for me.

 

 

I want that!!!!

 

post-8135-1199965697_thumb.jpg

 

DROOL!!!!

 

 

Yeah, I'm interested in that stock for the S308 I just got. That is the one that costs $75 on saigastocks.com, right? Is that just the same stock that they sell on the 16" 308's, or is there some difference?

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I dont know if its just me getting cheap these days? But i have a little 4x power ncstar scope on my s308 that actually came with my hipoint. I figured if the russians and germans were going at each other in stalingrad with 4x's, then hell:p. At any rate, those scopes you listed sounds real pricey for me. I have a big tasco on my mauser, but I couldve got a much better scope by Ncstar or Barska for the same amount of loot (thats not saying tasco is the worlds scope champ or anything)

 

Barska Varmint Rifle Scope AC10048, 6.5x-20x, 50mm Obj, 1" Tube Dia, Matte Black, Target Dot Reticle $47 ($65 for mildot)

 

Ncstar is good too, i havent had the chance to throw any lead a mile down range, but am confident.

 

If my life was at stake, yeah, Leupold, Pentax, Zeiss- why not. But considering I plink, no way.

 

 

 

 

My first real rifle. The 16" would seem to be a more practical gun, but I figured what the hell, if I don't like 21" I can always cut it down. Be a lot tougher to add 5 inches.

 

I was of course drooling over the idea of the RFB when I ran into the saiga. Actually I was thinking about a stevens 200, knowing I wouldn't/shouldn't afford the kel tec (plus, geez its a keltec).

 

Somehow ran into the saiga, and once I read about some owners getting 1moa out of it, I thought "hell I'll take a chance on that". Sort of a jack of all trades rifle. Well, okay I wouldn't use it for squirrel meat.

 

So I started thinking about mid-range optics, until I started pricing the ones that weren't crap. I'm definitely budget minded. So I've got a couple scopes I've narrowed down.

 

Since it's my first rifle, I really should just go out and shoot it with irons first, but I already have a UTG QD side mount on the way.

 

Scope 1and 2: Cheap and dirty. BSA 3-10 x 40 which is $75, weatherproof, fully multicoated. Standard reticle. The price would suggest it is crap, but the reviews at midway are glowing: 125 people agreed with and 0 people disagreed with the review "Excellent manufactured scope! Provides clear view just as the more expensive brands at a fraction of the cost. Useful features. Dollar for dollar worth every penny!"

 

Or I could pick up a 3-9 x40 PO scope from freedom optics for the same price. The PO would have the military range estimating reticle, I think. Anyone know for sure?

 

Scope 2 and 3: both $200, both frequently compared favorably, but not equally to $600 scopes. Both have mil. reticles: Mueller Tactical 4-16×50mm and Swift M687 4.5-14x44. Only advantage to the $70 PO that I can figure is the extended range. Since I'm pretty sure I've read 9x will get you out to 500m, and I haven't found a place to shoot yet period, much less half a mile, it might be silly to spend the extra $130 here.

 

Scope 4: $400. Falcon Optics Menace 4-14x44mm FFP with MP20 reticle. Apparently snipercentral is a (or the) us distributor for this brand. The scope to seems to be well thought of, though it isn't even available yet. Better optics and reticle than scope 2 or 3, and I *really* like the idea of the front focal plane. Not available til at least march. More than I want to spend. Even though "everyone" says you should not skimp on the scope, I can't help but think, "yeah, but I could get a PO, a PKAS and 100 rounds of ammo for that price"

 

Any thoughts, obeservations, etc. on those choices?

 

Also, on the UTG QD rail, what do people think of using the 90 degree weaver mount to hang a red dot off the side with scope on top? Still haven't worked out the ergonomics and won't know until I've changed stocks (I'm glad I didn't shoulder the rifle until after I bought it, because man, it really just doesn't fit, even with the iron sights). Since I've never seen it done, it must be a really noobish idea. I've seen smaller red dots mounted on TOP of main scopes before .. how would you attach them to the scope?

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Hi, Saigaless lurker here so no familiarity with mounting a scope on a Saiga but plenty with scopes in general. If you're on a budget for scopes, I'd recommend you go with quality over features. In less expensive scopes, fixed powers generally have the edge in optical clarity and durability. For $100, it's tough to go wrong with something like the Nikon Prostaff 4X. If you can spend $200, you are in Leupold VXI territory and will get a very durable scope with a great warranty. Game can be shot at pretty long distances with a 4X scope and a 9X at the upper end will get all you need out of a .308 unless you are doing serious target work. If you're willing to spend more money, options go up but I'd again worry more about durability, optical quality and warranty (things can and do go wrong) than whiz bang features. Target turrets and ballistic/mil-dot reticles can be great on serious long range rifles, but that doesn't seem to be the requirement here. Once I do get a Saiga, I have a Leupold VX-II 1-4X that seems to be a good fit for my purposes. With the field of view that 1X provides, the scope is unlikely to come off the rifle.

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My first real rifle. The 16" would seem to be a more practical gun, but I figured what the hell, if I don't like 21" I can always cut it down. Be a lot tougher to add 5 inches.

 

I was of course drooling over the idea of the RFB when I ran into the saiga. Actually I was thinking about a stevens 200, knowing I wouldn't/shouldn't afford the kel tec (plus, geez its a keltec).

 

Somehow ran into the saiga, and once I read about some owners getting 1moa out of it, I thought "hell I'll take a chance on that". Sort of a jack of all trades rifle. Well, okay I wouldn't use it for squirrel meat.

 

So I started thinking about mid-range optics, until I started pricing the ones that weren't crap. I'm definitely budget minded. So I've got a couple scopes I've narrowed down.

 

Since it's my first rifle, I really should just go out and shoot it with irons first, but I already have a UTG QD side mount on the way.

 

Scope 1and 2: Cheap and dirty. BSA 3-10 x 40 which is $75, weatherproof, fully multicoated. Standard reticle. The price would suggest it is crap, but the reviews at midway are glowing: 125 people agreed with and 0 people disagreed with the review "Excellent manufactured scope! Provides clear view just as the more expensive brands at a fraction of the cost. Useful features. Dollar for dollar worth every penny!"

 

Or I could pick up a 3-9 x40 PO scope from freedom optics for the same price. The PO would have the military range estimating reticle, I think. Anyone know for sure?

 

Scope 2 and 3: both $200, both frequently compared favorably, but not equally to $600 scopes. Both have mil. reticles: Mueller Tactical 4-16×50mm and Swift M687 4.5-14x44. Only advantage to the $70 PO that I can figure is the extended range. Since I'm pretty sure I've read 9x will get you out to 500m, and I haven't found a place to shoot yet period, much less half a mile, it might be silly to spend the extra $130 here.

 

Scope 4: $400. Falcon Optics Menace 4-14x44mm FFP with MP20 reticle. Apparently snipercentral is a (or the) us distributor for this brand. The scope to seems to be well thought of, though it isn't even available yet. Better optics and reticle than scope 2 or 3, and I *really* like the idea of the front focal plane. Not available til at least march. More than I want to spend. Even though "everyone" says you should not skimp on the scope, I can't help but think, "yeah, but I could get a PO, a PKAS and 100 rounds of ammo for that price"

 

Any thoughts, obeservations, etc. on those choices?

 

Also, on the UTG QD rail, what do people think of using the 90 degree weaver mount to hang a red dot off the side with scope on top? Still haven't worked out the ergonomics and won't know until I've changed stocks (I'm glad I didn't shoulder the rifle until after I bought it, because man, it really just doesn't fit, even with the iron sights). Since I've never seen it done, it must be a really noobish idea. I've seen smaller red dots mounted on TOP of main scopes before .. how would you attach them to the scope?

I use a Barska 3X9X42 IR scope on a UTG quick detach rail mount, and get 3/4 inch groups with Remington ammo.

This Barska scope is less than $100 on Sportsman's guide.

Hope this helps, Jimba

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I use a Barska 3X9X42 IR scope on a UTG quick detach rail mount, and get 3/4 inch groups with Remington ammo.

This Barska scope is less than $100 on Sportsman's guide.

Hope this helps, Jimba

 

I was looking at one of those barksa's in the sportsman's guide and wondering about the quality. I saw that 3-9X for around $40, IIRC.

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Have you looked at the centerpoint yet. I got one and works like a charm. I am not overly technical about the specificities but I have been pretty accurate shooting chipmunks, coyotes and ground hogs from the bed of a toyota truck. It's been banged around quite a bit and the sights haven't moved from what I can tell. Pretty cheap too it got a rating of 5 stars (I can't remember where from) I got mine at Wally mart for about 60.00. Oh yeah go with the side mount. I hope this helps. http://www.centerpointoptics.com/power_class/3-12x44b/

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I had a 6-24 x 44 BSA Scope with Ill. Rec. Mil. Dot. 1/8 MOA and FOV is like 9ft@100yds. and was $110. Can read a name tag at 3 NYC blocks (which are very large).

 

On my Old Bushy AR it was great. Anyone else use BSA and how did it hold up with their .308's??

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Looking at the power class and adventure class lineup of those centerpoint scopes, I get the feeling that I've seen these guys before in the accushot and 5th Generation series lineups, respectively, from Leapers. They appear to be priced comparably as well. Coincidence? Maybe, but they are all made in China - and you know how the Chinese feel about copying (or simply relabeling the same stuff)... :smoke:

 

That being said I have a Leapers 3-9x40 Illuminated on my S308 and have no complaints. I mainly shoot my Saiga for fun and use it as a backup hunting rifle, so the < $100 scope is perfectly fine with me - in fact I've been impressed with the quality of the optics considering the price range and its held zero just fine through a few hundred rounds. I can't really ask for more than that considering...

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