6500rpm 670 Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) As of lately, I've been playing with a variety of sight and mountings, and for all practical purposes IMHO, a low mounted Docter is one of the best fits for sighting down a Saiga 12. What I'd like to do if you guys can help is compile some information in one thread regarding Docter, Docter clone sights and the plus or minus factor. Seems like the latest Gen of Docters is becoming the standard. As a Second area, I'd like to list mounting options (different sources applicable to mounting Docter style sights to the S12), ranging from the small dove tail mounts that fit in the gas tube slot, to full length rails like Cobra's and Ultimak. I'd like to look at low and solid. If anyone has a source for steel picatinny rail at a decent price, even short segments. I've noticed that Tony and Jammer seem to be welding these in place on the tube, which seems like a good idea as it would lessen the chance of things moving if the sight is bumped. Steel rail prices seem to be at a premium. To me, these little sights are a gem because they don't obstruct the sight picture at all, and the lense ring makes a nice frame to sight through even with the light out. I'd like to find out which has the most bang for the buck and how tight to the top of the gun they can be fitted. I'm also undecided if the best position is at the dove tail mount, or someplace down the tube closer to the business end. Throw whatever you have out here as my eyes are getting bloody from searching the net and I know I'm missing some stuff....... http://www.docterusa.com/ Edited January 12, 2008 by 6500rpm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GearHeadFTW 0 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Tony at Tromix makes a doveTail mount that looks great and works with the Docter site. http://www.tromix.com/images/Jpoint5lg.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Thanks Gearhead. That mount is nice because it has those wings that protect your investment. Tony also does a custom low-profile mount that he welds onto your front trunnion...see it here:http://www.tromix.com/saiga-competition.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 What's the reticle like on a Docter? a simple dot or what? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Yeah it's a tiny dot. It's an excellent sight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted January 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 (edited) The Tromix weld on design is actually what I'm leaning toward at the time. To get it a little lower yet, possibly making the part that's welded to the tube into the actual sight bottom where the sight splits to access the battery compartmet. I'm using a p.o.s. Optima as a test subject right now for fitting, does anyone know if all the Docter style sights use the same interchangeable base (bottom) design with the four pegs and two screws to center and secure as the clones, I know that quite a few bases for picatinny rail/other handgun mounts seems to indicate so? Edited January 12, 2008 by 6500rpm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ezcompane 0 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 i've been thinking about buying a sight for mine, but its a toss up between this and an eotech. is there anyone here that has both or maybe used both that can give an opinion on which one might be the best option?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 The EO Tech is not a good choice on an AK. Actually, it's not a good choice for anything but an AR. The EO is made with the screen mounted above the battery box, making for a perfect built-in riser, which is required for the super low rail on the flat top AR. If you mount it on anything else, it's sticks up so high, you'll need a check rest to see through it properly. Or, you could always make a custom mount to secure it upside down! Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GearHeadFTW 0 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 The EO Tech is not a good choice on an AK. Actually, it's not a good choice for anything but an AR. The EO is made with the screen mounted above the battery box, making for a perfect built-in riser, which is required for the super low rail on the flat top AR. If you mount it on anything else, it's sticks up so high, you'll need a check rest to see through it properly. Or, you could always make a custom mount to secure it upside down! Tony I agree. I took my AimPoint and EoTech off other guns and taped it to the top of my Saiga to get an idea. After reading another post about using a EoTech sight. As far as I'm concerned it sits way to high, plus it looks like it would get in the way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Hey Juggs, I'll be waiting for you to weigh-in on this discussion of the EO Tech being mounted on a S-12, since your S-12 is set up like that. As for me.... I've already decided to go with the Docter unit.... I was fortunate enough to land a LNIB 7MOA version off of eBay three months ago, for my next TROMIX S-12 build. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OPENB 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 There is a guy on AR15.com named Victor, at Tactical Night Vision, that sells a Docter clone called the RPDII. It has an aluminum body and glass lens, and comes with a weaver base on it. I bought one as a close range optic on my open div. 3 gun AR. SUPER sight! If the weaver base is removed, it uses the Docter bases, not JP. Best thing is it is $139. He also sells 1" and 30mm mounts that mount on scope tubes so you can piggy back the RPDII on your scope. I tried that, but could not find a position with a comfortable cheek weld, so I will mount it on the forearms tube instead. I am waiting on an Ultimak from Blackjack buffers and will put the RPDII on my S12, hopefully this week. If you find the thread in the Equip. Exchange, subheading Optics, he has quite a few pics of it. I don't have time to link it right now. Very bright dot, visible in bright sunlight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted January 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) I just found something interesting to go with OPENB's post. I looks like the Docter uses a different base design than the JPoint, and clones (Optima/Firepoint). I'd be interested in listing all the micro dot style sights and what base they use. As I was reading through the following link, it hit me that there was a base available for the glock. If I'm not mistaken, Cobra had posted that rear Glock sights will fit the S12 dovetail. This leads me to believe that I may have found a very low mount possibility for this style sight, I'm sure Docter has similar Glock mounts available. This is the link, has some decent things to look at and read. http://www.jprifles.com/1.6.1.php Link to the sight OPENB refered to, http://www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=7&...23&t=435538 http://www.tacticalnightvision.com/red_dot_sights.htm Docter, Burris Fastfire, RDP 2 -Common mount JPoint,Optima,Firepoint-Common Mount TRIJICON-? NC Star-Weaver (thanks ajackb) Ebay knock off-? Yukon Sightmark Mini Shot (Optics Planet?) Edited January 16, 2008 by 6500rpm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GearHeadFTW 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 If you go on the main Tromix web site page, It says the mount they sell WILL work on JPoint or Dr. Opic. http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OPENB 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 I believe that is the saiga mount made by AMS for Tromix. It has a plate that works with both mounting styles, it is reversible, or switchable in some manner. As for the Glock dovetail being the same as the Saiga, that is very interesting. Can someone confirm? or give me a link to it. I was wanting to mount that RPDII in the rear dovetail, but couldn't find anything short of welding a steel rail on receiver, so I ordered the Ultimak. If a Glock adapter would work, that would be great. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ajackb 0 Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Docter, Burris Fastfire -Common mount JPoint,Optima,Firepoint-Common Mount TRIJICON-? NC Star-Weaver Ebay knock off-? Added the NC Star info as well as a note from the manufacturer when I contacted them about their DDAB sight and whether it was meant for anything more than Airsoft. I also was looking for an inexpensive addon sight for close work in 3Gun. His response......... This is Robert over at NCSTAR, our red dots are ready be mounted on pistols or rifles as long as you have a weaver base. If you have any other questions please give me a call. ROBERT LOPEZ TECH SUPPORT NC STAR INC. TEL:(866)627-8278 FAX:(626)575-2478 WWW.NCSTAR.COM The DDAB site: http://www.ncstar.com/new/productDetails.php?PID=336 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bishop81 0 Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 (edited) I have the NcStar mounted on my MKIII 22/45. Just got done boresighting it best I could as a matter of fact. I got a deal on it at the Indy 1500 gunshow a while back -$60 (Midway has them listed on their site for $130). Just returning from the latest installment of the same gunshow this evening, I figured I should put the little site to good use and mounted it up. At that bargain basement pricing I cant imagine it would hold up real well to the recoil of the S12 but who knows. As stated earlier, it has an integrated weaver mount. Edit- I just checked midway again, they droped their price to $83 for the NcStar. Edited January 14, 2008 by Bishop81 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 (edited) A few comparisons for Gary, always the shit disturber Nothing wrong with the other sights, but in doing a lot of different set up's lately, the small one seems to do the trick for me and oddly enough some versions are actually pretty inexpensive if they deal with the recoil. Some pics showing the Optima on a base I milled out today vs the Kobra and EOTech 552 for reference. (In al fairness, the EOTech could be a bit lower on a scout mount) Out of all of them, the EOTech is hands down my favorite, just not in this application. I was also working on a full length rail option to co-witness with which is what got me to this point. I do like the rail with the BUIS flip up's, but once again, I like this best. EDIT 1/20- I misunderstood how Cobra had mounted the Glock rear sight on his S12. IT WILL NOT FIT THE S12 DOVE TAIL AS IT IS NARROWER. Shannon had mounted the Glock sight inside the [_] on rear rail mount, sorry for any false hopes prior to the edit. Edited January 21, 2008 by 6500rpm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 (edited) looks like the wing shooter theory has gotten your eye too, kev. I would keep the wood stock I have now, put a better cover read:thick sheet metal cover, on mine, and sub a rear HK sight, a front AK type sight (now that Ive gotten used to it), and a mid gun tru glow sight.......no snese in all that shit hanging off of there..... it would have to be ROBUST, to say the least.....and would need all 3 sight placements availible for consumers. I would REALLY like to see a system made that can do this for this shotgun.....the saiga12......it almost deserves it.... edit: ....and oh yeh, shoot with both eyes open.... Edited January 14, 2008 by Bvamp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Topmaul had an interesting mount last time I saw his shotgun. I don't believe his optic held up, but the mount has me thinking (always dangerous). It clamped on the bbl. and he had it slid back all the way to the gas adjuster. Had a rail on top of it (IIRC). If anyone still has the rib on thier shotgun, Arrodondo makes a rib mount for these little dot sights. They are designed for rem/ browning/etc ribs. You can measure the rib width on your shotgun and they'll adjust one of their mounts to fit it. Sits about the level of the rib, allows adjustment in placement from the dovetail to the gas block. Likely sits about the same height as one of the Tromix mounts. Was pretty low priced too. For those unfamiliar with Arrodondo, they make a ton of stuff for competitors. Everything from the magwell for AR's to Open pistol parts to speed loader parts(shotgun). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 A few comparisons for Gary, always the shit disturber Nawwww.... I just like to stir Juggernaut's shit is all. We're buds... (or at least, the last time I checked)... so I enjoy punching him in the shoulder every now and then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 A few comparisons for Gary, always the shit disturber Nawwww.... I just like to stir Juggernaut's shit is all. We're buds... (or at least, the last time I checked)... so I enjoy punching him in the shoulder every now and then. Well, when I used it on my 2nd S12..... I used a simple side rail mount for my 552. those mounts are pretty high anyhow. It did feel very high... I like it allot better on my halo. I'm sure it would be fine on a cobra rail as well. in fact, it's kind of ideal.. I have an older ACE internal block, no angle at all. so the weapon always felt a little low.. Kinda had to crank the neck a bit to get the irons to line up right. so with the halo and the Eo. the sight alignment to my eye now feels very natural. Edit to add: I guess with the ace stock sticking straight out the back of the receiver (no angle).. The added hight of the EO "fixed" a problem that should have never occurred with an AK in the first place.. I actually like my cheapie leapers red dot on my Vector Arms AK with the ultimak due to the fact it sits closer to the gas tube than the EO.... BUT that rifle has the standard angle for the stock... (Tapco- T-6) Does that even make sense??? I wonder... is the Docter low enough, if you were to mount it on a rail over the gas tube, say with HK sites, could you set it up co-witness? I bet the iron sites would still be to low...... *snip* Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HK Shooter 0 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Has anyone tried out the Yukon Sightmark Mini Shot Reflex Sight? ~$100 and seems to be build just like the Dr. sight. http://www.opticsplanet.net/yukon-sightmar...ht-sm13001.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) Well, so far we have 10 different Micro's listed that have a common design look to them-wonder how many are in bed with each other (best bang for the buck)? I ordered a Barris Glock mount from Optics Planet last night, I have since found that it will not be a dirrect fit part. Once more, I don't know what the quality difference is, but the Barris and Docter are supposed to have the same mount design and the Barris mount was $10 less as a fyi. Edited January 21, 2008 by 6500rpm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GearHeadFTW 0 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Well, so far we have 10 different Micro's listed that have a common design look to them-wonder how many are in bed with each other (best bang for the buck)?I ordered a Barris Glock mount from Optics Planet last night, I'll post if it fits in a few days. Once more, I don't know what the quality difference is, but the Barris and Docter are supposed to have the same mount design and the Barris mount was $10 less. This mount you speak of, Does it mount by using the rear dovetail on a Saiga, the same way the Tromix one mounts? Are does it mount differently? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stokstad 4 Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Heres what I did........... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=7292&hl= Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted January 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 I received the Burris mount made for the Glock line today and the Dove tail is way too narrow for the Saiga 12's slot. Also, you can see in the pictures that the Docter style mount is longer and the locating pins are smaller than on the Jpoint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Hello I went with the EoTechs to get the MilSpec reticle height, since, as 6500rpm mentioned, co-witness was a consideration. I believe they are ideal for the S12, the "ring" around the dot make for very quick and easy acquisition, and the sight picture is huge, both in comparison to the Docter. Not to mention that it is a very robust piece of equipment... About the only knock that comes to mind about the Docter is the tools required/removal from base to change the battery, which admittedly, should not be frequent. To me, the co-witness is simply a means of maintaining accuracy with a "dead" optic, for whatever reason...I can sight through my "presumed dead" Eotech just fine with my flip-up BIS setups. I would not mount my Eo's any higher than absolutely minimal, though.... JMHO.... guido2 in Houston Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jamesavery22 54 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Did anyone ever try the Mini Shot? Is the Yukon Sightmark Mini Shot(SM13001) the same product as the RDP-II? made-in-china.com product page Victor from Tactical Night Vision Companies RDP-II report thread Sightmark's product page(not much here) opticsplanet.net's Mini Shot for sale product page From staring at pictures of cheapo mini dots on ebay this is the only one that looks like it could be the exact same product just with a different label. All other mini dots had something off; no sensor/cheapo switch, weird/huge sensor, windage&elevation adjustment holes were not beveled, 4 "steps" instead of 6, included stuff was different(no windage/elevation knob). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IPSC_GUY 3 Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 I have a Burris Fast Fire mounted in an AMS Machine 1913 mount. I will get some pics of it tomorrow and get em posted. IPSC_GUY SIERRA II ALPHA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GLOCKshooter 1 Posted August 21, 2008 Report Share Posted August 21, 2008 (edited) I can't find the Tromix mount on Tony's site any more. Edited August 21, 2008 by GLOCKshooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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