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Well, I got my Surefires today.


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They're big and they seem to feed OK. A little tight fitting, but I think that will probably go away after they've been inserted a few times. If if doesn't, a few strokes with a file should remedy things. Too tight is better than too loose IMO. The plastic they are made of seems to be somewhat harder and a little bit shinier than on a stock mag. Unlike most AK mag, the follower has the hump on the right side and there is a little piece of metal to reinforce it where the bolt carrier hits it. Overall size of these things is about the same as a 30 7.62x39 mag, only there is very little taper and they are bulkier. They are marked USA on both the body of the mag and the floorplate. I tried to disassemble one to get a look at the spring and to see if the follower was stamped, but the floorplate didn't want to budge and I didn't see any good reason to force it.

 

Unfortunately I won't get a chance to do any shooting with them until next week. I had already gone to the range and returned when they arrived today.

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Wow,after spending that kind of money it would be had to make yourself load one up and drop it on the garage floor a few times wouldn't it?

 

I need to order one of them to cycle and drop test before making a big order but it just seems so damned pricey for an injection molded part.

 

Is thee metal in the font or rear catches or in the feed lips as well?The metal in the follower is a promising sign.

 

Let us know how they pan out if you don't mind..

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Yes, the metal is a little rounded piece on the right side top. Sorry, no pics until I can con my wife into taking them. She's the one with the digital camera and she doesn't trust me with it. Something about the time I disassembled her Bogen Tripod and attached the cradle from my shooting rest to it.

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... but it just seems so damned pricey for an injection molded part...

 

That's the problem with making injection molded parts for a (relatively) small market. While it's true the unit cost of manufacturing is small, you have to recover the pre-production costs (R&D, molds, etc.). If your potential market is only a few thousand units, you might have to add quite a bit to the price of each unit just to break even.

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... but it just seems so damned pricey for an injection molded part...

 

That's the problem with making injection molded parts for a (relatively) small market. While it's true the unit cost of manufacturing is small, you have to recover the pre-production costs (R&D, molds, etc.). If your potential market is only a few thousand units, you might have to add quite a bit to the price of each unit just to break even.

 

 

$10,000 for a mold and $10,000 for the engineering and preprototyping means $20K and at $46 per mag they only need to sell 435 magazines to recoup their costs.

 

If these mags were priced like they should be ($25) then they would only need to sell 800 of them and people like me would buy 100 of them meaning they would only need to find 8-10 high end weirdos (like me) to break even and the rest would be gravy and they would get their money faster.

 

Producing small batches in an attempt to not be stuck with inventory and to keep the price high is a recipe for failure in business but flooding the market with your product and becoming a first choice due to price and availability is the way to become a huge success(especially when you have a competitor)

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Sopmod,

whats been your experiences with the FBMG mags for functionality and robustness? have you drop tested them as well> any breakages etc?

 

personally I got one surefire on the way and i'm gonna do a head to head test with the fbmg's I got comin. I had several of the first gen FBMGs and couldn't get any of them to feed. they all went back and larry sent me all new 'next generation' mags out. we'll see what happens there.

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$10,000 for a mold and $10,000 for the engineering and preprototyping means $20K and at $46 per mag they only need to sell 435 magazines to recoup their costs.

 

If these mags were priced like they should be ($25) then they would only need to sell 800 of them and people like me would buy 100 of them meaning they would only need to find 8-10 high end weirdos (like me) to break even and the rest would be gravy and they would get their money faster.

 

Your figures seem to assume (after initital costs) the unit cost of each magazine is pretty much $0.00.

 

How many molds does it take to make a complete magazine? One, as you assume, or more? Maybe one (or two if it's made in thwo halves) for the body, one for the follower, and one for the baseplate?

 

I also wonder how accurate the $10,000 engineering figure is (maybe someone who's actually made one can comment)?

 

Also, leaving aside the mold and engineering costs, what is the per unit cost per magazine (labor, power, insurance, magazine spring, etc.)?

 

Finally how much profit per unit will you allow (you do believe they should make a profit, don't you)?

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$10,000 for a mold and $10,000 for the engineering and preprototyping means $20K and at $46 per mag they only need to sell 435 magazines to recoup their costs.

 

If these mags were priced like they should be ($25) then they would only need to sell 800 of them and people like me would buy 100 of them meaning they would only need to find 8-10 high end weirdos (like me) to break even and the rest would be gravy and they would get their money faster.

 

Your figures seem to assume (after initital costs) the unit cost of each magazine is pretty much $0.00.

 

How many molds does it take to make a complete magazine? One, as you assume, or more? Maybe one (or two if it's made in thwo halves) for the body, one for the follower, and one for the baseplate?

 

I also wonder how accurate the $10,000 engineering figure is (maybe someone who's actually made one can comment)?

 

Also, leaving aside the mold and engineering costs, what is the per unit cost per magazine (labor, power, insurance, magazine spring, etc.)?

 

Finally how much profit per unit will you allow (you do believe they should make a profit, don't you)?

 

I think they got over 300k invested for all their mags.

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$10,000 for a mold and $10,000 for the engineering and preprototyping means $20K and at $46 per mag they only need to sell 435 magazines to recoup their costs.

 

If these mags were priced like they should be ($25) then they would only need to sell 800 of them and people like me would buy 100 of them meaning they would only need to find 8-10 high end weirdos (like me) to break even and the rest would be gravy and they would get their money faster.

 

Your figures seem to assume (after initital costs) the unit cost of each magazine is pretty much $0.00.

 

How many molds does it take to make a complete magazine? One, as you assume, or more? Maybe one (or two if it's made in thwo halves) for the body, one for the follower, and one for the baseplate?

 

I also wonder how accurate the $10,000 engineering figure is (maybe someone who's actually made one can comment)?

 

Also, leaving aside the mold and engineering costs, what is the per unit cost per magazine (labor, power, insurance, magazine spring, etc.)?

 

Finally how much profit per unit will you allow (you do believe they should make a profit, don't you)?

 

 

 

I got a quote to have molds made for 308 Galil mags back during the ban and it was about $10,000 and the follower and floorplate were in there too but I could have used M14 followers and springs instead and I also got quotes to have them produced out of Nylon6 and as the numbers got higher the production cost per mag went down to only a couple of dollars a piece from an original cost of almost $15 per mag body in quantities under 1000 units.

 

FBMG is waaaaaay more honest and forthcoming about their production costs and schedule but they are also producing small batches so their costs are probably higher especially since they are buying their followers from another manufacturer and fabricating their floorplates out of aluminum their cost is higher.

 

Last I spoke with FBMG they were having these items added to their molds.Mold making is not a mysterious science and you could get a quote to have injection molds made in any large city in the USA.Look up mold makers in your yellow pages and give it a shot;)

Edited by SOPMOD
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Haven't had a chance to fire it, but 25 rounds handcycled through smooth as silk.

 

Here's a shot of the top, hope the angle is what you wanted.

 

post-859-1200619966_thumb.jpg

 

Note the area at lower left of the follower: that's metal, the last round BHO, IMHO a pain in the neck because of the hassle removing the mag. Not worth the trouble.

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That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

Just wanted to see this LRBHO.

I'm really looking for some feedback on these. I got some tax refund money burning a hole in cyberspace some where... Should be here soon!

Edited by 1liter
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Got mine in earlier... Works well.

 

Not a huge fan of the follower...bolt slams right home soon as you remove the mag unless you can take the time to either hold the bolt, or latch the factory BHO. Factory bho is located a bit further back then the follower.

 

Otherwise....so far so good. Sure is nice having the extra capacity...but now i gotta buy up alot more .308 (among various other calibers that are dwindling).

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I have 2 Surefires inbound and scheduled for delivery Monday. I also just got a case of Wolf 308 Delivered for 208.00!!! No shit, Sportsmans Guide came through after being on Backorder for a YEAR!!!!! I was happy as a pig in shit when I seen the the box... Anyway, I will give them a thorough test along with my other 2 FBMGs (Zero Problems thus far) I've had from when they first started shipping. I have a TROMIX Conversion and have only shot Fed. 308 150gr Power Piont in it and average 1.5 inch groups with a Burris 2-7 Compact mounted. I took off the Burris since Deer Season is over and I have a Set of MOJO Sights added.....way better. I'll keep yall posted.

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Put a good amount of rounds from my new surefire 25rd today....It was probably 10 degrees out and the mag certainley got bumped around and hit some trees walking through the woods to my firing range (Snowy icy stuff and my daily driver is a stock 3/4 ton...didnt wanna get stuck)... The mag seems fairly tough so far. I would say short of a bullet hitting it, you are more likely to rip the mag out of the well slamming against some cover. Would take a pretty hard, clumsy dive...but sometimes when your getting shot at, thats what happens.

 

Cycled fine...no jams or anything...just pure saiga reliability. The pistol grip conversion just got alot more necessary. Saiga .308 turns from "hunting carbine" to battle rifle the instant you click that loaded hi-cap in.

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I received two from Adcofirearms.com for $45 each plus $4 flat rate shipping. I should have ordered twenty for that rate, but wanted to test them out first.

Wondered if there was a better deal out there for these? (Although the low shipping might save in larger quantity orders.)

 

I basically "threw" the first one all over the shop and drop tested the hell out of it. OK results, a few scratches and a chipped piece of plastic off the bottom flange ( we're talking small chip from corner 1-2 mm size), but still fed fine after all the abuse. I personally like the last round bolt hold open feature of the mag. The pre firing fit was tight at first, but it broke in and smoothed out after a dozen or so insertions. They felt a bit bulky compared to my FBMG mags, but I got used to the size. I cycled twenty of dummy rounds through them twice with five live round at the bottom to make it full capacity with no problems. Then I cycled the twenty dummy rounds to empty in each one to check out the LRBHO feature.

 

Range results at room temp indoors was excellent with both mags. They fed the full 25 rounds with no problems from the start. I had no normal feed probs and only one extraction failure, which resulted in a misfeed;(prob due to Indian ammo used at that time). All other ammo was fed perfect over the course of 300 rounds. They feed and extract as well as my 8, 20, and 30 round FBMG mags. I still love my 30s (Thanks Dinzag!), but for the price these are my preference.

 

I haven't checked yet, but wonder if the ribs will pose any problems with mag pouch accessibility, and ease of getting them in or out of mag pouches. Especially when in next to each other, may want/need to have separate pockets for each mag.

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Given the current price of .308 I haven't really put that much ammo through my rifle lately, but so far I like the BHO. It lets you know you're out of ammo and it's still fairly easy to remove the mag.

 

I've heard stories, but myself, I've never been able to detect the subtle difference when the bolt closes on an empty chamber vs. when it feeds a bullet. I even took my SAR3 and about 60 rounds of ammo all randomly loaded up in about 20 different mags out to the range one day. Each mag had between 1 and 5 rounds in it and I would load them and try to "feel" the difference and predict when the mag was empty. I could do it maybe half the time when I was really paying attention, but in a stressful situation... forget about it. So I like the idea of a BHO. That is a difference I CAN feel.

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