12 gauge reloading equipment?

[Bishop81 0]

After owning my S12 for a few months, I have come to the the realization that it is a fatass (eats too much). While I know there are plenty of varieties of cheap birdshot out there, I am still interested in taking up the time honered tradition of reloading. I have no experience reloading ammunition so I have been reading some of the FAQs on various websites but I havent come across any specific to shotshells just yet. Reloading 12 ga. is where I would like to start but I will likely get into pistol/rifle later on.

 

I am turning to you guys to ask for suggestions on a 12 ga. press as well as books/manuals well suited to getting started in shotshell reloading. I got a dillon catalog in the mail which pictures the impressive SL900, but $1000 (with casefeeder) is a touch more than I was looking to spend on my first press. I should also add that I am also looking to reload buckshot and rifled slugs as they are the most expensive "Food" that tubby here seems to like so much.

 

Thanks in advance for any input.

-Brian

[6x6pinz 4]

Have reloaded shotshell for years. I started with a single stage MEC, great unit and cheap. I have moved onto a couple of progressives, one MEC the other Hornady. I still prefer the MEC units for their ease of operation and availability of dies. As you will/have found you can spend as much on a unit as you can afford. Because of the time it takes to make slug rounds and with the minimal number of them that I shoot I have not taken to reloading them. I would prefere a single stage for the specialty rounds as it gives a little more control over each stage without messing up production. The Lyman line of shotshell reloading has been a great resource for me over the years, easy to read and they keep with readily available components. I found the trap and skeet ranges to be one of the best resources for information on reloading and prices on components. I have been using reclaimed lead in shotshells for target shooting and dove/quail/rabbit hunting. If you are carefull you can make some very nice rounds that work much better than the factory loads at a fraction of the price, assuming you are not using the generic factory dove loads. It is hard to reload when you can buy a $3.00 box of shells and it cost almost that in material to reload a quality load.

I have friends who reload hard cases (pistol/rifle) and there is a world of difference between shotshell and hard case.

[Gaddis 1,689]

MEC SizeMaster 77 and the current Lyman Shotshell book is probably the best way to start.

[Twinsen 86]

I got a MEC sizemaster for reloading buckshot and slugs, but haven't loaded any slugs yet. The shot slide thing bothers me though, what the hell kind of reloading do you do without a custom powder drop?! I got a Lyman #55 powder drop that I'm going to clean up tonight and be ready to use in the morning.

 

There's no point in getting a progressive press if you're going to be loading buckshot and slugs.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Twinsen

[turbo1889 1]

Okay, I will outline what is the rock bottom cheapest way to get into reloading buckshot and slugs for your 12ga. gun, then I will explain the negatives of the cheapest way and point out where you can spend some extra $$$ and minimize these negatives, seams the logical way to put it forward to me.

 

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Tools To Get:

 

1 @ Lee Load All II in 12ga.

1 @ Reloading Powder Scale

1 @ Reloading Powder Trickler

1 @ Spoon

2 @ Cereal Bowls

1 @ Reloading Powder Funnel

 

Components To Get for Slugs:

 

# @ Lyman Wad Slugs from GardnersCache.com

# @ Some Once Fired 2-3/4" Hauls for which there is Load Data (Load Data Comes with Slugs)

1 @ Bag of 12ga. Wads to Go With Your Chosen Load from the Data

1 @ One Pound Bottle of Powder to Go With Your Chosen Load from the Data

1 @ Box of Primers to Go With Your Chosen Load from the Data

 

Components To Get for Buckshot:

 

1 @ Load Data for your Buckshot Using 2-3/4" Hauls with Star Crimp

1 @ Jug or Bag of Your Chosen Size of Buckshot

# @ Some Once Fired 2-3/4" Hauls to Go With Your Chosen Load

1 @ Bag of 12ga. Wads to Go With Your Chosen Load

1 @ One Pound Bottle of Powder to Go With Your Chosen Load

1 @ Box of Primers to Go With Your Chosen Load

1 @ Shot Buffer or Box of Cream of Wheat

 

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Okay here is the low down. The Lee Machine is the cheapest one out there that I know of and with a few concessions for it's weak points it will load very good ammo and additionally comes set up out of the box without any adjustments which could confuse a beginner. So what are the weak points of the Lee machine. First off it works really, really well with the 2-3/4" shell length but crimps with the 3" shell length are done by "feel" and thus 3" shell loading can become problematic. With a little practice they can be done but many find this annoying. Secondly the powder measure on the Lee machine leaks powder --- so to avoid this you should measure the powder with a regular reloading powder scale. This means it takes a little longer but also means your loads are spot on and will be more accurate then loads made with any machine where the powder is measured via a bushing. Most dedicated slug loaders measure their powder with a scale regardless of the machine they use so the Lee machine's little leak problem is a mute point for this kind of loading in most cases. And the last weak point of the Lee machine is the fact that the entire machine has to be unbolted from the bench and turned upside down in order to empty the powder and shot hoppers --- again with slug and buckshot loading this is a mute point because you should use a powder scale for these loads anyway and with slugs and buckshot you won't be using the shot drop anyway. So what it all boils down to is that for loading slugs and buckshot the only real disadvantage with the Lee machine is the fact that 3" shells take some practice to crimp properly. That's why I suggested loads using 2-3/4" shells in the lists above.

 

So if you are going to be reloading mainly 3" shells, want to use the powder drop instead of measure your powder with a scale, and/or you intend to load regular shot loads as well you should strongly consider paying for an MEC machine. However, you should be aware that you might be able to pick up the Lee machine for practically nothing if you look around a little. There are quite a few of them lurking in the closets of reloaders that have moved on to bigger and better progressive style presses like the Dillion you mentioned. Point is you can probably get someone to give you their old one they started out with. Sorry you can't have mine --- I still use it for all of my 2-3/4" slug loads. Currently use my MEC for everything else especially the 3" shells.

 

So here is how you would load slugs using this set up:

- - - 1. Deprime and Size hull

- - - 2. Reprime Hull

- - - 3. Weight out Powder Charge

- - - - - - - A. Powder in bowl

- - - - - - - B. Spoon powder into scale pan till slightly less then charge weight

- - - - - - - C. Use trickler to bring powder charge up to exact charge weight

- - - - - - - D. Dump powder into hull using funnel

- - - 4. Place slug inside wad and then press wad and slug together down inside hull

- - - 5. Start crimp using correct crimp starter (8-point front, 6-point back)

- - - 6. Finish Crimp

 

And this is how you would load buckshot using this set up:

- - - 1. Deprime and Size hull

- - - 2. Reprime Hull

- - - 3. Weight out Powder Charge

- - - - - - - A. Powder in bowl

- - - - - - - B. Spoon powder into scale pan till slightly less then charge weight

- - - - - - - C. Use trickler to bring powder charge up to exact charge weight

- - - - - - - D. Dump powder into hull using funnel

- - - 4. Press wad down inside hull

- - - 5. Count out and load buckshot inside hull on top of wad

- - - - - - - A. Store buckshot in second bowl for easy access during loading

- - - - - - - B. In 12ga. buckshot size #1 or bigger are stacked in specific patterns

- - - 6. Dump in correct ammount of shot buffer and gently tap on side of hull with finger

- - - 7. Start crimp using correct crimp starter (8-point front, 6-point back)

- - - 8. Finish Crimp

 

Now as far as actual load receipes I can help you with that via PM. Most of the loads I use are in the Remington 2-3/4" unibody hulls which are what come in the cheap Walmart 100 round bulk back of shot loads. Those hulls can be reloaded like 15 times no problem.

Edited January 18, 2008 by turbo1889

[Bishop81 0]

Thanks for the input so far.

 

I stumbled across a shotgun reloading forum last night which has me nearly convinced of a MEC 9000GN. At $379 shipped, it seems like plenty of machine for my needs and affordable enough. I am aware that it is entirely unneccessary for slugs and buckshot, but I am planning to load standard birdshot as well so I figure that I might as well buy once to cover all my bases.

 

My next question, is there a source for rifled slugs? I checked out the Lyman slugs on gardnerscache and they are of the sabot variety. I know the website says you can use them in smoothbores but I cant figure they would be too accurate. If there is nowhere to buy them, is there a mould or press for making them?

 

Also, I need two must have books to get started with. I figure I can buy those and start reading before I buy anything in the way of equipment or components.

 

Sorry for being a PITA, Thanks again for the help.

-Brian

[Bvamp 604]

you can find slug moulds around. I think lee makes one or two types of them. You can also occasionally find an old muzzleloader miniball (mini ball is a bullet, not a ball) mould here and there in calibers close to 12 gauge modified choke size. These slugs should have MORE tin in the alloy, to lighten them up. You will have to use trial and error to get it right, so that you dont have a 2 oz slug, regalrdless of what slug mould you use. If you are going to go that route start looking at a melting pot, and going to tire shops for wheel weights. you will need to make a tin/lead alloy, which is really simple to do. plenty to be found on this on google.

 

My slug loads I used to make were done individually by hand, and werent rounds for blowing off, as you might say. Also, I used a Lee load all for a long time, and only used it for #8 shot 1 1/8oz trap loads, which it excelled at, and the particular bushing is sized specifically for that size shot and all that fun stuff, to make it come out with some pretty consistant trap loads. It would draw fairly uneven payloads when I would load mixed pellet payloads, varying quite a bit. I think you can buy them off the shelf as "rhodesian" or "jungle" loads, or some bullshit like that. they work good on tastey animals in light cover, actually.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Bvamp

[turbo1889 1]

The Lyman "wad-slugs" at GardnersCache.com are one of the few dependably available slugs on the market unless your going to make your own. There used to be a outfit known as "slugmaster" that made the rifled variety you speak of but they've gone belly up as far as I know. You might still be able to find someone with a few bags left in storage if you look real hard.

 

If you do some research, however, you will find that at supersonic velocity (above 1,100fps.) rifling molded into the slug does absolutely nothing. The GardnersCache slugs properly loaded will do as good or better then factory rifled slugs out of a smooth bore. Mabey I'll get around to punching a group out at 50 yards with my smooth bore with my loads with the GardnersCache slugs and with some factory slugs and take some pictures to show you what they are capable of.

 

If you want to make your own from a mold well Lyman makes two molds for the 12ga:

- - - - http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/...leitemid=481595

- - - - http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/...leitemid=778041

Lee also makes two molds for the 12ga:

- - - - http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/...leitemid=792313

- - - - http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/...leitemid=770274

And finally Rapine Bullet Moulds makes three molds for the 12ga:

- - - - http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/?p=88

 

After you take a look at those molds you will become painfully aware of two things first off one of the Lyman molds, both of the Lee molds, and one of the Rapine moulds are for "wad-slugs" that is slugs designed to fit inside a standard shot wad. Some might call them sabot slugs but I differentiate them from true sabot slugs by calling them "wad-slugs". Why? because first off unlike true sabot slugs they work just fine in smooth bore guns and secondly a true sabot has much thicker and harder plastic petals then a shot wad. The prevelance of this design for reloaders is because of it's simplicity to load. The other Lyman mold is the old standby dirt simple original smooth sided "foster" slug just like the really cheap "original style" factory slug loads from Winchester. The other two Rapine molds are full bore heavy slugs with lube grouves designed for fully rifled slug barrels along the lines of the factory loaded "Dixie Brand" slugs. The second thing you will become painfully aware of is that none of these slug molds are the "rifled" design you are looking for. There is a reason for that, it is extremely dificult to machine a slug mold for rifled slugs --- it is much easier to make rifled slugs via. the swagging process.

 

There is one main supplier of swagging equipment to private individuals --- That is "Corbin Industries". Here is a link to their advertisement page on the net for swagging shotgun slugs --- http://www.corbins.com/slugs.htm

 

And yes if you intend to load regular shot-loads as well in any significant quantity an MEC machine is the way to go. I have a "Sizemaster" not sure on exact model number and it has served me very well.

 

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EDIT:

 

Drat !!! Forgot to tell you the other two places you can buy slugs ready made --- they are more expensive though.

 

- - - - http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/bpicart/...cts.asp?dept=71

- - - - http://www.customprojectile.com/

- - - - - - - - - http://www.customprojectile.com/print_form.pdf

 

From Ballistic Products the "AQ Slug" and "Dangerous Game Slug" work in smooth bore guns the "BluForce Sabot Slug" is for fully rifled barrels only"

 

NwCP sells both a shuttlecock style "wad-slug" and an original style plane "foster" slug both of which work in smooth barrels.

Edited January 18, 2008 by turbo1889

[rs39 0]

Thanks guys!

 

I am new to shot shell loads, but have a few years with a RCBS Rockchucker and Lee attachments for pistol. I am probably more interested in hard-hitting buck than trap loads, and noticed in a previous post a comment about needing to hand arrange #1 and larger shot. I mainly want to load the S12 for plates and 'recycling' activities.

 

At what size shot can you no longer use a hopper to dump shot into the hull, and must hand count and pour for each load?

 

Trying to decide between Lee and Mec for the first shot shell setup....and have a Dillon 550 to get going for the 6.5x55 and 7.62x39 food.

[Twinsen 86]

I think the standard is Buckshot only requires counting. BBB and smaller doesn't. But really small like #12 bird, you may need special tools for.

[rs39 0]

I think the standard is Buckshot only requires counting. BBB and smaller doesn't. But really small like #12 bird, you may need special tools for.

 

Thanks!

 

I am working out the cost math, understand that 25lbs of sport shot makes about 400 1oz loads, so the #8 lead is about $125/1,000 loads. But I am not at all sure how much buck works out in number of pellets per ounce... Do 9 pellets of 00 weigh about an ounce or???

 

Ignoring the hulls for now, 1,000 rounds of 12ga needs $30 wads, $75 powder, $35 primer, about $125 #8 shot or $?? buck

[turbo1889 1]

. . . . I am not at all sure how much buck works out in number of pellets per ounce... Do 9 pellets of 00 weigh about an ounce or??? . . . .

 

The information your are looking for in that regard is found in my post which is the second to last post in this thread on the shotgunworld.com forum:

 

Buckshot the easy way

 

There is additional useful information in that thread if you want to read it all. Now as far as buckshot goes it's a little harder to get (less places sell it) compared to regular old lead bird shot and usually it is sold in smaller quantities. There used to be a place on the net that sold all the buck shot sizes from #4 up to OOOO in big 50 pound cloth bags in either chilled or magnum just like bird shot for the same price as bird shot. Their web site is gone, however, and you can't have mine !!! (Nothing personal of course).

[rs39 0]

. . . . I am not at all sure how much buck works out in number of pellets per ounce... Do 9 pellets of 00 weigh about an ounce or??? . . . .

 

The information your are looking for in that regard is found in my post which is the second to last post in this thread on the shotgunworld.com forum:

 

Buckshot the easy way

 

There is additional useful information in that thread if you want to read it all. Now as far as buckshot goes it's a little harder to get (less places sell it) compared to regular old lead bird shot and usually it is sold in smaller quantities. There used to be a place on the net that sold all the buck shot sizes from #4 up to OOOO in big 50 pound cloth bags in either chilled or magnum just like bird shot for the same price as bird shot. Their web site is gone, however, and you can't have mine !!! (Nothing personal of course).

 

 

Thanks again!

 

I wonder if there is a buck sort/counter like dumping change into a hopper, so a certain gauge fills tubes with a certain count. Either that, or hope I find the magic pop straw to speed up the counting...

 

The longer lever on the Mec Jr arm looks easier for a bazillion cycles on a Sat afternoon. Too bad the primer hopper costs as much as the Lee's whole set.

[rs39 0]

Thanks again for the info, FWIW I found a guy's show table with 2 Loadalls, one set for 1oz loads and another for 1 1/8oz (his recipe anyway) and misc bushings plus the load chart that Lee provides, all for $25. There's more work to do, but the training wheels for shot shells are officially on.