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#1 IMCIDC

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 12:08 PM

I am a total newbe here so forgive me in advance if my question seems rather amateurish.
My new Saiga 410 came with a four round magazine that has 410 X 76 stamped on the side. (3) Additionally, I just offered up my left big toe for a ten round magazine that has similar markings. I have two types of ammunition for this weapon. I have the Russian Golden Bear 2 ¾ slugs (Russian made with steel cases) and a few boxes of size 4 (# 4 shot I presume) 3 11/16 shot shells. The gun did not come with any choke tubes (just a thread protector). With all that babbling out of the way, can I safely use the same magazines to load and fire both sizes of ammunition?

#2 tritium

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 12:14 PM

Find some mags that say '410x70' for the 2 3/4 inch shells.
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#3 IMCIDC

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 05:34 PM

Find some mags that say '410x70' for the 2 3/4 inch shells.



Can you point me in the right direction where to get the 410 X 70 magazine? Will I damage my shotgun if I attempt to load the 2 3/4" slugs and fire them using the 410 X 76 magazine?

#4 Psee

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:39 PM

I've had my .410 for only a couple of months but I've used both the Winchester 3" and the Golden Bear 2.75" shells in my stock 3" mags that came with the gun.


The Winchester 3" shells have worked fine so far:

Posted Image


The Golden Bear 2.75" shells have been problematic (jams, etc.):

Posted Image


I'm using the #1 setting on the front gas setting so not sure if this could be causing the issues with Golden Bear sabots.

Where did you find a 10 rounder? Haven't seen these for sale anywhere online... :)

#5 lenf

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:58 PM

PSee, Welcome. See other items in the 410 forum regarding 10 round mags or MD drums & mags. The short story is that ten rounders are hard to find. When they were available as recently as a year ago, they were $60 each. There are other posts describing modification of the four round mags to accept five rounds and welding two four rounders together to create an eight or nine round mag. There is a rumor that rusmilitary will have 10 rounders available this month, and expect to pay more than $60. MD arms, the maker of the 20 round 12 gauge drum magazine has been saying that they will eventually make a high cap magazine, but no promises on a date. So you see where we are. The best you can do is add an entry to the forum topics saying you will buy when they are available. Maybe we can generate some interest with the makers. Never tried 2 3/4" shells, but have fired plenty of 2 1/2" singly. There are 2 1/2" four round mags available. I've never tried 2 3/4" shells. Good luck.
THE OBJECT OF LIFE IS NOT TO BE ON THE SIDE OF THE MAJORITY, BUT TO ESCAPE FINDING ONESELF IN THE RANKS OF THE INSANE. M. Aurelius

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#6 lenf

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 08:05 PM

For what it's worth, here's the rusmilitary site http://www.rusmilita...t_magazines.htm. Prices are in British pounds, so you can about double those numbers for US dollars.
THE OBJECT OF LIFE IS NOT TO BE ON THE SIDE OF THE MAJORITY, BUT TO ESCAPE FINDING ONESELF IN THE RANKS OF THE INSANE. M. Aurelius

Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.
John F. Kennedy

#7 IMCIDC

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 08:30 PM

I've had my .410 for only a couple of months but I've used both the Winchester 3" and the Golden Bear 2.75" shells in my stock 3" mags that came with the gun.


The Winchester 3" shells have worked fine so far:

Posted Image


The Golden Bear 2.75" shells have been problematic (jams, etc.):

Posted Image


I'm using the #1 setting on the front gas setting so not sure if this could be causing the issues with Golden Bear sabots.

Where did you find a 10 rounder? Haven't seen these for sale anywhere online... :)



Thanks for the information. I did not want to cause any damage firing the wrong size shell. Actually my next question was going to be about the #1 and #2 gas setting. I read somewhere else that for defensive purposes at home, for a new gun it is best to use #2 setting because there is a less chance for a jam. Presently is is set on #2. When I take it to the range I will use #1 for the 3 rounds and #2 setting for the 2 ¾ slugs.
I paid $150 for my 10 rounder on Gunbroker.com however I have not received it yet. My brother told me if I want an authentic 10 round magazine and dont want to spend months of searching every day, Ill probably have to pay that kind of money so I did.

http://www.gunbroker...p?Item=90295771

This guy sells them on Gunbroker.com from time to time.

#8 turbo1889

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 12:31 AM

Okay, here is how it boils down for the available lengths of shells in the 410-shot cartridge:

Posted Image




Now if you look closely at the drawing of the shells you will notice two things. First off the conventional plastic shells are shorter before being fired because some of the haul length is used up in the fold. The exact amount of haul length used up in the fold is right on at about 1/4 of an inch. The full length metallic shells however are the same length before and after firing. Now, officially the actual length of the shell (for example 3") is what the shell measures after firing. Now clips are designed to fit the conventional plastic hauls before firing. This is when you should notice the second thing. The next size shorter full length metallic shell is almost identical in length to an unfired plastic shell.

Thus in conclusion a clip designed to hold and feed 3" plastic shells will hold and properly feed both 3" plastic shells and 2-3/4" full length metallic shells --- for a S-410 this will be the clip designated "410 x 76". A clip designed to hold and feed 2-3/4" plastic shells will hold and properly feed both 2-3/4" plastic shells and 2-1/2" full length metallic shells --- for a S-410 such a clip is unfortionatly not commercially produced. Finally, a clip designed to hold and feed 2-1/2" plastic shells will hold and properly feed both 2-1/2" plastic shells and 2-1/4" full length metallic shells --- for a S-410 this will be the clip designated "410 x 65". To my knowledge there are no 2-1/4" full length metallic shells produced, however, brass shells in exactly such a length are available from Magtech for handloaders to load their own such cartridges.


Now, about how to stop that jamming with the Golden Bear shells:

Okay, for the newbies (I was one as well not long ago):

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~Magnum vs. Non-Magnum
~~~~Technically for the .410ga. "magnum" means a 3" shell with a heavy hunting load at maximum safe pressure.
~~~~Realistically "magnum" means a shell that will cycle the action on the more constricted #1 setting.
~~~~General "rule of thumb" = 3" shells are magnum and 2-1/2" shells are non-magnum for the .410ga. There is the occasional exceptions to the rule that you should mentally note for further refrence. For example my gun will cycle the Federal brand 2-1/2" slugs on the magnum setting. In addition guns are all slightly different from one to the other of the same model and where as yours may cycle one shell on a certain setting mine won't or visa versa.
~~~~Best policy, is to attempt to fire a clip full of a specific shell through your gun on the magnum setting (#1) and if the action does not fully cycle or jambs up then switch to the non-magnum setting (#2). A magnum shell will cycle on both the magnum and non-magnum settings but using it with the non-magnum setting works the action extra hard and increases the wear and tear on your gun over time.
~~~~If you leave your Saiga-410 loaded next to the bed-side leave it on the non-magnum (#2) setting. It will thus cycle any shell you put in it. Yes, it will be a little harder on the gun, but not enough to worry about in a fire-fight and will actually help make sure you get no jams. You don't want to be fiddling with the gas piston setting when someone is shooting at you !!!!

~Specific info on Saiga-410 Gas Piston Settings
~~~~ Setting #1 is for magnum shells. This setting constricts the gas flow slightly to save wear and tear on the guns action when using magnum shells.
~~~~ Setting #2 is for lighter shells (including the vast majority of 2-1/2" shells). This setting eliminates the constriction and is "wide open throttle."
~~~~ Specific graphical illustration of the two settings:
Posted Image

~Specific info on using 2-1/2" shells in Saiga-410
~~~~Must have adjustable gas valve or limit yourself to 2-1/2" loads hot enough to work the action --- the only hot factory load I know of is the Federal brand slugs and they may not work for every gun like they do for mine.
~~~~ For standard 3" mag it is possible to load and fire two (2) of the shorter shells. Load the mag with a single shell. Put the mag in the gun and work the action to chamber the round. Turn safety on and remove the mag and again load a single round. Replace the mag and you will have one shell in the chamber and one in the mag. At least on my gun this single 2-1/2" shell in a 3" mag will feed correctly for a second shot.
~~~~ Get yourself a dedicated 2-1/2" mag. Here is a link to where I bought mine and it works great: http://www.armsofame.../saigamags.html -- mag for 410 2-1/2" shells is the forth one down on the page.


So if a shell consistently jambs up on setting #1 switch to setting #2 and it should work just fine. The shell in question obviously doesn't have quite enough smack to reliably work the action on the restricted magnum setting.

Edited by turbo1889, 21 January 2008 - 02:47 AM.

What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.

#9 IMCIDC

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 08:52 AM

Okay, here is how it boils down for the available lengths of shells in the 410-shot cartridge:

Posted Image




Now if you look closely at the drawing of the shells you will notice two things. First off the conventional plastic shells are shorter before being fired because some of the haul length is used up in the fold. The exact amount of haul length used up in the fold is right on at about 1/4 of an inch. The full length metallic shells however are the same length before and after firing. Now, officially the actual length of the shell (for example 3") is what the shell measures after firing. Now clips are designed to fit the conventional plastic hauls before firing. This is when you should notice the second thing. The next size shorter full length metallic shell is almost identical in length to an unfired plastic shell.

Thus in conclusion a clip designed to hold and feed 3" plastic shells will hold and properly feed both 3" plastic shells and 2-3/4" full length metallic shells --- for a S-410 this will be the clip designated "410 x 76". A clip designed to hold and feed 2-3/4" plastic shells will hold and properly feed both 2-3/4" plastic shells and 2-1/2" full length metallic shells --- for a S-410 such a clip is unfortionatly not commercially produced. Finally, a clip designed to hold and feed 2-1/2" plastic shells will hold and properly feed both 2-1/2" plastic shells and 2-1/4" full length metallic shells --- for a S-410 this will be the clip designated "410 x 65". To my knowledge there are no 2-1/4" full length metallic shells produced, however, brass shells in exactly such a length are available from Magtech for handloaders to load their own such cartridges.


Now, about how to stop that jamming with the Golden Bear shells:

Okay, for the newbies (I was one as well not long ago):

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~Magnum vs. Non-Magnum
~~~~Technically for the .410ga. "magnum" means a 3" shell with a heavy hunting load at maximum safe pressure.
~~~~Realistically "magnum" means a shell that will cycle the action on the more constricted #1 setting.
~~~~General "rule of thumb" = 3" shells are magnum and 2-1/2" shells are non-magnum for the .410ga. There is the occasional exceptions to the rule that you should mentally note for further refrence. For example my gun will cycle the Federal brand 2-1/2" slugs on the magnum setting. In addition guns are all slightly different from one to the other of the same model and where as yours may cycle one shell on a certain setting mine won't or visa versa.
~~~~Best policy, is to attempt to fire a clip full of a specific shell through your gun on the magnum setting (#1) and if the action does not fully cycle or jambs up then switch to the non-magnum setting (#2). A magnum shell will cycle on both the magnum and non-magnum settings but using it with the non-magnum setting works the action extra hard and increases the wear and tear on your gun over time.
~~~~If you leave your Saiga-410 loaded next to the bed-side leave it on the non-magnum (#2) setting. It will thus cycle any shell you put in it. Yes, it will be a little harder on the gun, but not enough to worry about in a fire-fight and will actually help make sure you get no jams. You don't want to be fiddling with the gas piston setting when someone is shooting at you !!!!

~Specific info on Saiga-410 Gas Piston Settings
~~~~ Setting #1 is for magnum shells. This setting constricts the gas flow slightly to save wear and tear on the guns action when using magnum shells.
~~~~ Setting #2 is for lighter shells (including the vast majority of 2-1/2" shells). This setting eliminates the constriction and is "wide open throttle."
~~~~ Specific graphical illustration of the two settings:
Posted Image

~Specific info on using 2-1/2" shells in Saiga-410
~~~~Must have adjustable gas valve or limit yourself to 2-1/2" loads hot enough to work the action --- the only hot factory load I know of is the Federal brand slugs and they may not work for every gun like they do for mine.
~~~~ For standard 3" mag it is possible to load and fire two (2) of the shorter shells. Load the mag with a single shell. Put the mag in the gun and work the action to chamber the round. Turn safety on and remove the mag and again load a single round. Replace the mag and you will have one shell in the chamber and one in the mag. At least on my gun this single 2-1/2" shell in a 3" mag will feed correctly for a second shot.
~~~~ Get yourself a dedicated 2-1/2" mag. Here is a link to where I bought mine and it works great: http://www.armsofame.../saigamags.html -- mag for 410 2-1/2" shells is the forth one down on the page.


So if a shell consistently jambs up on setting #1 switch to setting #2 and it should work just fine. The shell in question obviously doesn't have quite enough smack to reliably work the action on the restricted magnum setting.




I appreciate all the information. You guys taught me a lot! As I mentioned before, I have a few 50 RND boxes of 2 ¾ full length metallic (slugs) and a few more boxes of the 3 plastic #4 shot Magnum shells. It is nice to know that I do not have to go out and buy yet another magazine because that ten rounder really set me back. (BTW, I noticed there is another one up for auction on GunBroker.com if any of you guys are looking for one and have that kind of cash) Here is another classic newbie question. I am going to assume that with these shells, bigger is better right? Meaning the 2 ¾ and 3 shells pack more punch than the 2 ½ shells. Most of the time my Saiga will be performing home defense duties next to the bed so I am probably going to keep the 10 round magazine loaded with the 3 plastic #4 shot shells. Is that a good choice or should I go with the slugs? I live in a condo and want to limit the possibility of collateral damage to innocents on the other side of walls while at the same time being able to stop an intruder in his tracks. :ded:

#10 turbo1889

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 01:22 PM

Slugs in 410-bore do have the punch to penetrate a 2x6 framed wall with 5/8" sheetrock on both sides and R-25 fiber-glass insulation batts inbetween. I have tested them on that exact combination. Now, the bigger size buckshot (OO, OOO, and OOOO buck) gets through as well but is going slow enough on the other side that it would probably only penetrate just under the skin of a naked human standing on the other side --- still make them plenty mad enough to sue though. Biggest pellets that are stopped by such a wall are loads with lead BB shot. Unfortionatly they are not commercially produced and must be handloaded. You say you've got shells with #4 shot. Is that #4 buckshot or #4 shot. Number four buckshot are the smallest size of buckshot they are big balls bigger then the BB's yet quite smaller then the "O" buck sizes and might get through but probably just bounce off anything they hit on the other side and number four shot is much smaller then BB's so they won't get through.

If the walls inbetween the condos are "fire-walls" that means they are double thick walls and anything up to and including OO buck is probably going to be just fine and a full 3" shell of any size of buck shot inbetween #4 and OO is going to be nasty to be on the wrong end of. If I knew the walls were double thick "fire-walls" I'd be looking in the direction of the S&B three inch mag. loads of five OO buck balls or into some loads Golden Bear loads with #4 buck. If they are single thickness non-fire-walls then I wouldn't go any bigger then #4 buck but at the same time really wouldn't want to go as small as #4 bird shot because that small of pellet isn't going to have the stopping power of the bigger pellets.

My advise to you is to see if you can take your loads to the range and see what they would do to first a wall as I described. If you know someone who works in construction you can have them pick you up some short lengths of 2x6 (framers usually throw away any scrap blocks shorter then 2 foot at the end of the job) some fiberglass insulation batt scrap (small scraps are plentiful towards the end of the job for insulators) and some scrap sheetrock (rock hangers throw away huge amounts of this usually anything smaller then half a sheet 4'x4' gets tossed). Make a square with the scrap wood and put sheet rock on both sides with insulation in the hollow inbetween. Blast away at single and/or double "fire" walls with various sizes of big bird shot and buck shot. Next get a water-mellon that's just a little too ripe from like the food bank and shoot it --- that about simulates what your loads are going to do to a clothed nasty busting down your door in the middle of the night. Did the shot make it deep enough into the red part of the melon ??? Red is good --- red is vitals.
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.

#11 -Indy-

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 02:40 PM

I Am going to STICKY this topic, for the pictures alone are worth a thousand words... It helps to clarify what many here try to explain and a lot of times is misunderstood about shotgun shell lengths, ESPECIALLY with the 410's!!

Thanks for the great visualization to help clarify!!

:smoke:
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#12 IMCIDC

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 05:53 PM

Slugs in 410-bore do have the punch to penetrate a 2x6 framed wall with 5/8" sheetrock on both sides and R-25 fiber-glass insulation batts inbetween. I have tested them on that exact combination. Now, the bigger size buckshot (OO, OOO, and OOOO buck) gets through as well but is going slow enough on the other side that it would probably only penetrate just under the skin of a naked human standing on the other side --- still make them plenty mad enough to sue though. Biggest pellets that are stopped by such a wall are loads with lead BB shot. Unfortionatly they are not commercially produced and must be handloaded. You say you've got shells with #4 shot. Is that #4 buckshot or #4 shot. Number four buckshot are the smallest size of buckshot they are big balls bigger then the BB's yet quite smaller then the "O" buck sizes and might get through but probably just bounce off anything they hit on the other side and number four shot is much smaller then BB's so they won't get through.

If the walls inbetween the condos are "fire-walls" that means they are double thick walls and anything up to and including OO buck is probably going to be just fine and a full 3" shell of any size of buck shot inbetween #4 and OO is going to be nasty to be on the wrong end of. If I knew the walls were double thick "fire-walls" I'd be looking in the direction of the S&B three inch mag. loads of five OO buck balls or into some loads Golden Bear loads with #4 buck. If they are single thickness non-fire-walls then I wouldn't go any bigger then #4 buck but at the same time really wouldn't want to go as small as #4 bird shot because that small of pellet isn't going to have the stopping power of the bigger pellets.

My advise to you is to see if you can take your loads to the range and see what they would do to first a wall as I described. If you know someone who works in construction you can have them pick you up some short lengths of 2x6 (framers usually throw away any scrap blocks shorter then 2 foot at the end of the job) some fiberglass insulation batt scrap (small scraps are plentiful towards the end of the job for insulators) and some scrap sheetrock (rock hangers throw away huge amounts of this usually anything smaller then half a sheet 4'x4' gets tossed). Make a square with the scrap wood and put sheet rock on both sides with insulation in the hollow inbetween. Blast away at single and/or double "fire" walls with various sizes of big bird shot and buck shot. Next get a water-mellon that's just a little too ripe from like the food bank and shoot it --- that about simulates what your loads are going to do to a clothed nasty busting down your door in the middle of the night. Did the shot make it deep enough into the red part of the melon ??? Red is good --- red is vitals.



The ammo I purchased is "Federal Classic Hi-Brass 410-ga. 3" 11/16 oz. Shotshells 25 rds #4 Shot." I also purchased a few boxes of "Silver Bear 50 rds. 2 3/4" 97-gr. steel-cased 410 Shotgun Slugs.
I live in a small, 1200 square foot condo, (with a firewall separating them) and since I would be using the weapon at defensive distances (around 20 to 25 feet max) my thinking is the #4 shot would be the better defensive round because of the spread vice the more precise aiming required with a slug, and from that distance, I am thinking a center mass hit (or hits) or even a face shot or two would put an intruder on his back. Is my thinking accurate or should I go with the slugs. Also, I cant seem to locate any buckshot for my shotgun so any contact info would be appreciated. Also (Yea, I know I could go on for ever) I was considering purchasing the pistol grip/folding stock but don't know where to find those either. Darn, looks like I have been bitten by the shotgun bug!!! This can become habit forming... :ph34r:

#13 lenf

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 07:07 PM

At 20', a 3" load of #4 shot is about 10" across with about 150 pellets, at 10' it's closer to 3" across. At a 10" pattern you average two pellets per square inch, but in reality the center 5" or so has about half of the shot, making it far more dense, closer to 10 or 12 per square inch, with the center of that pattern even more dense. Set up some large paper targets. Red builders paper works great. It's 3' wide and very tough, better than newspaper and easier to measure and count holes, hard to write on though. Knockdown? Who knows? I can't think of a meaningful test. A ten round mag will go a long way toward accumulated effect though.
THE OBJECT OF LIFE IS NOT TO BE ON THE SIDE OF THE MAJORITY, BUT TO ESCAPE FINDING ONESELF IN THE RANKS OF THE INSANE. M. Aurelius

Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.
John F. Kennedy

#14 turbo1889

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 10:31 PM

The ammo I purchased is "Federal Classic Hi-Brass 410-ga. 3" 11/16 oz. Shotshells 25 rds #4 Shot." I also purchased a few boxes of "Silver Bear 50 rds. 2 3/4" 97-gr. steel-cased 410 Shotgun Slugs.
I live in a small, 1200 square foot condo, (with a firewall separating them) and since I would be using the weapon at defensive distances (around 20 to 25 feet max) my thinking is the #4 shot would be the better defensive round because of the spread vice the more precise aiming required with a slug, and from that distance, I am thinking a center mass hit (or hits) or even a face shot or two would put an intruder on his back. Is my thinking accurate or should I go with the slugs. Also, I cant seem to locate any buckshot for my shotgun so any contact info would be appreciated. Also (Yea, I know I could go on for ever) I was considering purchasing the pistol grip/folding stock but don't know where to find those either. Darn, looks like I have been bitten by the shotgun bug!!! This can become habit forming... :ph34r:



Okay I did some looking around the net and it looks like if your going to use bird shot loads what you've got is the best available as far as a defense load against two legged preditors. And your right for "spray and pray" shooting shot is a better option then slugs. Here is a link to the S&B buck shot loads if your interested. It looks like their out of stock right now, but I imagine they will be getting more in, S&B does have them in their 2008 product line on their home web site so it's not like it's a discontinued product or something:

http://www.cheaperth...5-3273-321.html
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.

#15 IMCIDC

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 09:13 PM

The ammo I purchased is "Federal Classic Hi-Brass 410-ga. 3" 11/16 oz. Shotshells 25 rds #4 Shot." I also purchased a few boxes of "Silver Bear 50 rds. 2 3/4" 97-gr. steel-cased 410 Shotgun Slugs.
I live in a small, 1200 square foot condo, (with a firewall separating them) and since I would be using the weapon at defensive distances (around 20 to 25 feet max) my thinking is the #4 shot would be the better defensive round because of the spread vice the more precise aiming required with a slug, and from that distance, I am thinking a center mass hit (or hits) or even a face shot or two would put an intruder on his back. Is my thinking accurate or should I go with the slugs. Also, I cant seem to locate any buckshot for my shotgun so any contact info would be appreciated. Also (Yea, I know I could go on for ever) I was considering purchasing the pistol grip/folding stock but don't know where to find those either. Darn, looks like I have been bitten by the shotgun bug!!! This can become habit forming... :ph34r:



Okay I did some looking around the net and it looks like if your going to use bird shot loads what you've got is the best available as far as a defense load against two legged preditors. And your right for "spray and pray" shooting shot is a better option then slugs. Here is a link to the S&B buck shot loads if your interested. It looks like their out of stock right now, but I imagine they will be getting more in, S&B does have them in their 2008 product line on their home web site so it's not like it's a discontinued product or something:

http://www.cheaperth...5-3273-321.html

Thank you for the link. I added myself to the waiting list.

#16 Twinsen

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 09:57 PM

I have not been able to get my Saiga .410 to cycle the Russian made steel cased slugs on setting #1. However, every other 3" shell that I have fired out of it does work on the number 1 setting. I fired one Rem birdshot 3" on the number 2 setting and it was very loud and angry, and actually generated some kick. I only use the number 2 setting for the russian slugs.
I might end up being around a lot more.
Posted Image Posted Image

#17 Psee

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 08:58 PM

Ordered some of the Russian 2.75" buckshot and tried them today. Definitely needed to use the #2 setting. I would concur the Russian made shells don't have enough punch for the #1 setting on a stock .410.

Posted Image

#18 Twinsen

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 04:30 AM

Ordered some of the Russian 2.75" buckshot and tried them today. Definitely needed to use the #2 setting. I would concur the Russian made shells don't have enough punch for the #1 setting on a stock .410.

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Our springs must all be slightly different from use or something. On #1, the Golden Bear buckshot cycles 100% in mine. I bet if I actually used my .410 it would eat any 3" on #1.
I might end up being around a lot more.
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#19 Psee

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 08:59 PM

Too bad they don't have a 1.5 setting... :)

The #2 setting was a bit much on ejection but #1 was jamming and leaving spent cartridges in the barrel (not good). The gun is still fairly new so maybe it will loosen up after more rounds.

#20 Psee

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Posted 21 March 2008 - 08:58 PM

Did some testing with my new 2.5" mag,

The Winchester Super Speed Xtra game loads (410 GAUGE/2.5"/1275 FPS/.5 OZ./6 SHOT) handled the #1 gas setting just fine.

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The Estate High Velocity Hunting Loads (410 GAUGE/2.5"/1200 FPS/.5 OZ./6 SHOT/ didn't fare as well so had to switch to #2 gas setting.

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The Winchester shells weren't as accurate (the spread seemed a lot more than the Estate) but definitely had more punch.

#21 russianblood

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 07:46 PM

Thanks for this thread! I've used the above link to order a 2 1/2" magazine. Now my magazine selection is complete.
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#22 fmdrumstix

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 08:28 PM

So, has anyone found a 10 rounder for the 2 1/2 shells? The 3" shells are a bit more expensive.

#23 russianblood

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 01:49 PM

So, has anyone found a 10 rounder for the 2 1/2 shells? The 3" shells are a bit more expensive.


Nobody makes a 10rd magazine for 2 1/2" shells that I'm aware of. 3" shells aren't that much more. Besides, the good Russian ammo (read as "cheap") all goes in a 3" magazine.
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#24 Bar Sinister

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 09:15 PM

For what it's worth, here's the rusmilitary site http://www.rusmilita...t_magazines.htm. Prices are in British pounds, so you can about double those numbers for US dollars.


I may be incorrect, but I think you halve the amount in British Pounds, approximately

#25 bigdaddyhatty

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 05:38 PM

[quote name='turbo1889' timestamp='1200893610' post='195188']
Okay, here is how it boils down for the available lengths of shells in the 410-shot cartridge:

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@Turbo, I don't think all 3" ammo is exactly 3" no matter how you measure it. I have a picture of some various brands, (loaded on the left then fired on the right) and there is a lot of variance. I didn't have a fired hull for each type when I took the pic, but I think you can see a big difference between the green Remington hull and the others. For feeding purposes I think you definatly have to try each and see how it does.

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"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson

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#26 C-Par

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 10:38 PM

Here are some shells I have laying around. The federal PDs are the longest. They will not fit in the surefire.
I just got the winchester pdx's, silver bears and nobles. I had to use the 2 setting with the remington #6s. The Nobels were the cheapest and seem like the cheapest. Hope they cycle.

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#27 drkstrw

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 06:58 PM

Looking for the 410 x 70 magazines anyone have a source just looking for 1 at this time.

#28 C-Par

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 08:37 PM

Guys something fishy is going on.

I just bough more PDX1 and Federal personal Defenses.

Now its just the opposite.

Now I Can't get the PDX1 in the Surefire and now the Federals fit. Hmm.

There must be multiple versions.

#29 bigdaddyhatty

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 09:26 PM

Guys something fishy is going on.

I just bough more PDX1 and Federal personal Defenses.

Now its just the opposite.

Now I Can't get the PDX1 in the Surefire and now the Federals fit. Hmm.

There must be multiple versions.



The #4 buck Federal rounds are longer than the 000 buck federal rounds, If that is your
situation. PDX have always fit for me, likewise the 000 but not the #4

Edited by bigdaddyhatty, 23 August 2011 - 09:26 PM.


"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." - Thomas Jefferson

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." - Wendell Phillips


#30 coon hunter

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 09:25 PM

Anybody shot slugs through there .410 saiga yet? I was told that you could but idk.






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