fnfal89 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 (edited) i would just like to mention first that im a little nub in this forum and this will be my first post. i just got my saiga .223 and i was wondering if theres a way to put a pistol grip on my gun without moving the trigger forward or doing any major mods to it. id like to put something like this on---- i found that on any suggestions? Edited January 23, 2008 by fnfal89 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 You should be ok with that stock as long as you aren't violating any state laws. And welcome to the forum! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fnfal89 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 so i wouldnt have to move the trigger forward or anything with this stock? jus take out the old one and install this one? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Yes, for the RAA stock (which this one is). Unfortunately on the website you mentioned this stock is out stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fnfal89 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 ohh alright. i think i get it now. thanks for the help! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Navy87Guy 1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 You need to go check the forum section on 922R compliance. By adding that stock, according to 27 USC 478.11, you have turned your Saiga into a semi-automatic assault weapon. Since it is no longer suitable for "sporting purposes", you must now comply with 18 USC 922R -- which means you need to reduce the number of countable foreign parts (as defined in 27 USC 178.39) in your rifle from the current 15 to 10 or fewer. There's a lot in the compliance section on how to become legal -- but it's not as easy as just putting the stock on and going to the range. If you do that, you'll be in violation of Federal law. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fnfal89 0 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 (edited) well is it possible to get a stock and pistol grip like this one::: http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?prod...=251&page=1 and install that without moving my trigger forward? thats made in U.S btw. it says its for the ak 74/47. will it work for a saiga? Edited January 24, 2008 by fnfal89 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 (edited) well is it possible to get a stock and pistol grip like this one::: http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?prod...=251&page=1 and install that without moving my trigger forward? thats made in U.S btw. it says its for the ak 74/47. will it work for a saiga? Not without converting. Check out this post from earlier today: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=22447&hl= You can buy an Ace stock that is functionally identical to the one you orginally linked to, but is made in the USA. Edited January 24, 2008 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fnfal89 0 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 (edited) i saw the video on youtube where that guy shows how to put on a pistol grip and he took the grip off his AR15 and a stock off an old SAR and modified those to fit the receiver. and by modified i mean he shaved some off the pistol grip with a dremel to fit in under the little rivet hole and took a little off of the ak stock in order to fit over the nut that was put in to hold the pistol grip. could i do that with those same pistol grip and stock i had up earlier? sorry for all the questions this would be my first modification to any gun ive had and i wanna get it right. i really appreciate the help Edited January 24, 2008 by fnfal89 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 i saw the video on youtube where that guy shows how to put on a pistol grip and he took the grip off his AR15 and a stock off an old SAR and modified those to fit the receiver. and by modified i mean he shaved some off the pistol grip with a dremel to fit in under the little rivet hole and took a little off of the ak stock in order to fit over the nut that was put in to hold the pistol grip. could i do that with those same pistol grip and stock i had up earlier? sorry for all the questions this would be my first modification to any gun ive had and i wanna get it right. i really appreciate the help I suppose you could do that with this stock set, but you'd have to hold really funny. It'd make your length of pull about 6 inches. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Navy87Guy 1 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 ... this would be my first modification to any gun ive had and i wanna get it right. i really appreciate the help If you really want to get it right, then just do a full conversion. It's really not that hard and it will cost you about the same (or less) than that pistol grip/stock combo. Everything you've described is really just jury-rigging. You can do a quality job in a weekend, and you'll have a rifle that looks good and functions properly. Don't turn your rifle into some YouTube abomination - just do the right thing. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fnfal89 0 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 thanks for all the help guys. i think i might take navyguys advice. im gonna look into it a little more first and try converting the thing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mr47 0 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Share Posted January 24, 2008 thanks for all the help guys. i think i might take navyguys advice. im gonna look into it a little more first and try converting the thing Man you should have looked into it a LOT more before posting that. I just bought my first Saiga too, a .762. I went into a local gun store planning on buying some 9mm rounds for my Glock and ended up trading a Smith and Wesson 686-6 for the Saiga. I was the first owner of the S&W and kept it in great shape. I'd had it for about four years and had shot it at LEAST 3000 times. Nothing that cleaning it after every outing with a silicate cloth couldn't cover up. But anyway I asked the guy what the Saiga was. I thought it was some kind of funky new SKS or something. I don't personally like the SKS, and I've shot a couple so I can base my opinion on personal experience. Anyway the guys like, "no its an AK base, made by Izmash, etc.." So I feel her up (the rifle) and I like what I see. So I showed him the S&W and he said he'd do an over the counter trade. Now not to be a dumb ass who goes and buys a gun without knowing anything about it I went home and looked at the Saiga 7.62 on the internet for about two hours. Did my research (thanks mostly to this site ) and decided it was a good trade. Anyway so now I have the rifle. Now what to do with it? First of all I don't have the tools to convert it into the basic AK 103 look, but I don't personally see any need. As far as the trigger group and stock goes, I'm ordering an ACE. Either the folding stock or the M4 stock also made by ACE. They both look great and from what I read they function well. What's going to make the decision for me is whether the folding stock will be able to accommodate a laser I want to mount on the side rail. I have the UGT dual rail on the rifle so if the folding stock clears the rail w/a laser on it that's the way to go. The top rail of the UGT FINALLY has a neat new reflex sight on it. Very slick. I mailed my hand guard off (thanks Cobra ) to have a rail mounted on the bottom and vents cut in the sides. Why have my existing hand guard modified instead of buying one with a rail? Well there simply are no hand guards for the Saiga rifle that don't look like ass. Personally I really like the look of the factory hand guard. Its just that it's so useless as it is. No vents?!?!?! No rail?!?!?! Boo! So I want the bottom rail for a forward pistol (found the one I want, graphite with a rubber hand cover, looks neat and functional), and a bipod which I haven't found yet. I need something thats sturdy as hell when in a non use position. I don't want to carry around a rifle with a floppy bipod on it. It's funny I was sitting here wondering about a week ago how the hell I was going to get a muzzle compensator on the damn thing when I found Cobra's post about cutting off the hood around the barrel. I was afraid it was solid and part of the barrel. I'm torn between two models. The Tromix shark cause it just looks mean, and the JTac (I think? I don't know I have it bookmarked) compensator. I'll probably end up with the JTac because of the actual functionality. I need to find out if the Tromix shark is more of a stabbing weapon than a compensator or it actually reduces recoil too . Ok enough stupid emoticons. So that's what I'm doing with my Saiga rifle. Oh and I need to buy a gas piston for the thing so I can have at least one US part on the inside. Oh hell and then theres the recoil buffer and US made 30rd clips. And a sling. Yeah so that's a lot of stuff to do but I'm over 50% done so. The really expensive stuff, ie the gun and the reflex sight are already mine and the hand guards paid for. I guess the ACE stocks are both pricy. Oh and a tritium front sight cause its COOL! and will actually work well with the reflex sight at night. Unless the coating on the sight dulls the light from the tritium. What the hell though right? It'll look really neat. So there you have it right? Just about every damn thing you can do to the Saiga without moding the receiver in any way. I think the slightly extended reach on a Saiga with a pistol grip/stock and forward pistol grip compared to the standard AK model will be more comfortable to hold and shoot. I have long arms and being able to mount the pistol grip way up front will be nice. I have a couple of friends with regular pre-ban AK's and I've shot them a few times. They're good rifles but with my mods to my new baby I'll take the Saiga over the AK any day. . . . I should get a green laser. That would be freaking sweet! Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Navy87Guy 1 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 thanks for all the help guys. i think i might take navyguys advice. im gonna look into it a little more first and try converting the thing Try watching these videos. They aren't "professional" videos, but I think rjs34 did a great job documenting his work -- and it shows just what a kitchen gunsmith can do. Hard to argue with his results! You, too, can become a full-fledged member of the Wiley E. Coyote School Of Gunsmithing (WECSOG). Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fnfal89 0 Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) thanks for all the help guys. i think i might take navyguys advice. im gonna look into it a little more first and try converting the thing Man you should have looked into it a LOT more before posting that. I just bought my first Saiga too, a .762. I went into a local gun store planning on buying some 9mm rounds for my Glock and ended up trading a Smith and Wesson 686-6 for the Saiga. I was the first owner of the S&W and kept it in great shape. I'd had it for about four years and had shot it at LEAST 3000 times. Nothing that cleaning it after every outing with a silicate cloth couldn't cover up. But anyway I asked the guy what the Saiga was. I thought it was some kind of funky new SKS or something. I don't personally like the SKS, and I've shot a couple so I can base my opinion on personal experience. Anyway the guys like, "no its an AK base, made by Izmash, etc.." So I feel her up (the rifle) and I like what I see. So I showed him the S&W and he said he'd do an over the counter trade. Now not to be a dumb ass who goes and buys a gun without knowing anything about it I went home and looked at the Saiga 7.62 on the internet for about two hours. Did my research (thanks mostly to this site ) and decided it was a good trade. Anyway so now I have the rifle. Now what to do with it? First of all I don't have the tools to convert it into the basic AK 103 look, but I don't personally see any need. As far as the trigger group and stock goes, I'm ordering an ACE. Either the folding stock or the M4 stock also made by ACE. They both look great and from what I read they function well. What's going to make the decision for me is whether the folding stock will be able to accommodate a laser I want to mount on the side rail. I have the UGT dual rail on the rifle so if the folding stock clears the rail w/a laser on it that's the way to go. The top rail of the UGT FINALLY has a neat new reflex sight on it. Very slick. I mailed my hand guard off (thanks Cobra ) to have a rail mounted on the bottom and vents cut in the sides. Why have my existing hand guard modified instead of buying one with a rail? Well there simply are no hand guards for the Saiga rifle that don't look like ass. Personally I really like the look of the factory hand guard. Its just that it's so useless as it is. No vents?!?!?! No rail?!?!?! Boo! So I want the bottom rail for a forward pistol (found the one I want, graphite with a rubber hand cover, looks neat and functional), and a bipod which I haven't found yet. I need something thats sturdy as hell when in a non use position. I don't want to carry around a rifle with a floppy bipod on it. It's funny I was sitting here wondering about a week ago how the hell I was going to get a muzzle compensator on the damn thing when I found Cobra's post about cutting off the hood around the barrel. I was afraid it was solid and part of the barrel. I'm torn between two models. The Tromix shark cause it just looks mean, and the JTac (I think? I don't know I have it bookmarked) compensator. I'll probably end up with the JTac because of the actual functionality. I need to find out if the Tromix shark is more of a stabbing weapon than a compensator or it actually reduces recoil too . Ok enough stupid emoticons. So that's what I'm doing with my Saiga rifle. Oh and I need to buy a gas piston for the thing so I can have at least one US part on the inside. Oh hell and then theres the recoil buffer and US made 30rd clips. And a sling. Yeah so that's a lot of stuff to do but I'm over 50% done so. The really expensive stuff, ie the gun and the reflex sight are already mine and the hand guards paid for. I guess the ACE stocks are both pricy. Oh and a tritium front sight cause its COOL! and will actually work well with the reflex sight at night. Unless the coating on the sight dulls the light from the tritium. What the hell though right? It'll look really neat. So there you have it right? Just about every damn thing you can do to the Saiga without moding the receiver in any way. I think the slightly extended reach on a Saiga with a pistol grip/stock and forward pistol grip compared to the standard AK model will be more comfortable to hold and shoot. I have long arms and being able to mount the pistol grip way up front will be nice. I have a couple of friends with regular pre-ban AK's and I've shot them a few times. They're good rifles but with my mods to my new baby I'll take the Saiga over the AK any day. . . . I should get a green laser. That would be freaking sweet! Nick well im not sure what your trying to say there but i dont think i ever asked for your life story, i was jus asking for some help. i just got my .223 in today. here it is:: Edited January 25, 2008 by fnfal89 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cellsworth 21 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) I have the ACE side folding stock w/ pistol grip on one of my Saigas (it is the one specifically made for unmodified Saigas). The stock is great and really easy to install. Absolutely no modifications are needed. With that stock, and all US made mags, you're set. To see what the set up would look like, check out BullShark012's pictures. I think they're in the 7.62X39 pictures (around page 7). Saigastock.com also has a modified Tapco collapsible stock/pistol grip combination unit that they claim will fit Saigas with no modifications needed. I don't know how good it is, but it is about half the cost of the ACE. I treated the original fire control group with Smooth-Kote and BP 2000 from sentrysolutions.com, and it has the feel of a good, smooth 2-stage trigger. Maybe I'm just lucky, but it works for me. Doing the conversion is a fine option (better balance and the ability to use regular AK mags) as well. It just depends upon what you are interested in doing. I've gone both routes, and am very happy with the results in each case. Edited January 25, 2008 by hogdog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fnfal89 0 Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) I have the ACE side folding stock w/ pistol grip on one of my Saigas (it is the one specifically made for unmodified Saigas). The stock is great and really easy to install. Absolutely no modifications are needed. With that stock, and all US made mags, you're set. To see what the set up would look like, check out BullShark012's pictures. I think they're in the 7.62X39 pictures (around page 7). Saigastock.com also has a modified Tapco collapsible stock/pistol grip combination unit that they claim will fit Saigas with no modifications needed. I don't know how good it is, but it is about half the cost of the ACE. I treated the original fire control group with Smooth-Kote and BP 2000 from sentrysolutions.com, and it has the feel of a good, smooth 2-stage trigger. Maybe I'm just lucky, but it works for me. Doing the conversion is a fine option (better balance and the ability to use regular AK mags) as well. It just depends upon what you are interested in doing. I've gone both routes, and am very happy with the results in each case. thanks hotdog, i checked out the site and i like that tapco stock. i already have a us mag on mine so i guess getting that stock would make it legal. i checked out the 7.62x39 pictures and i couldnt find any of bulls pics. id really like to see pics with the tapco or the russian side stock on here Edited January 25, 2008 by fnfal89 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cellsworth 21 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) I have the ACE side folding stock w/ pistol grip on one of my Saigas (it is the one specifically made for unmodified Saigas). The stock is great and really easy to install. Absolutely no modifications are needed. With that stock, and all US made mags, you're set. To see what the set up would look like, check out BullShark012's pictures. I think they're in the 7.62X39 pictures (around page 7). Saigastock.com also has a modified Tapco collapsible stock/pistol grip combination unit that they claim will fit Saigas with no modifications needed. I don't know how good it is, but it is about half the cost of the ACE. I treated the original fire control group with Smooth-Kote and BP 2000 from sentrysolutions.com, and it has the feel of a good, smooth 2-stage trigger. Maybe I'm just lucky, but it works for me. Doing the conversion is a fine option (better balance and the ability to use regular AK mags) as well. It just depends upon what you are interested in doing. I've gone both routes, and am very happy with the results in each case. thanks hotdog, i checked out the site and i like that tapco stock. i already have a us mag on mine so i guess getting that stock would make it legal. i checked out the 7.62x39 pictures and i couldnt find any of bulls pics. id really like to see pics with the tapco or the russian side stock on here If the magazines are all US made, and the stock and pistol grip are also US made, you should be legal. Try this link to get to BullShark's pictures BullShark's picture post. It's post #192 in that topic. If you want a folding stock, get the ACE. It is 100% US made. Just be sure to get one made specifically to fit an unmodified Saiga. Unfortunately, the last time I checked they were out of stock. Do not get the Russian one, as it would do nothing to help you achieve compliance. Here is a link to the ACE stock w/pistol grip. Note that it is shown on a Saiga shotgun, which makes the whole thing look rather elongated. It looks much better on a 16" barrel .223 or 7.62X39. ACE Saig Stock Edited January 25, 2008 by hogdog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Navy87Guy 1 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 With TAPCO, you get what you pay for. Remember that it's plastic - whereas everything on the ACE stock is metal. I had a TAPCO stock on my Lancaster AK. It was okay -- but compared to the CAA stock on my Saiga, it felt like a toy. I swapped it out for some standard wood. I didn't have any problem with it, but I would have to be really desperate (and broke) to buy another one. Just my $0.02... Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mr47 0 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 thanks for all the help guys. i think i might take navyguys advice. im gonna look into it a little more first and try converting the thing Man you should have looked into it a LOT more before posting that. I just bought my first Saiga too, a .762. I went into a local gun store planning on buying some 9mm rounds for my Glock and ended up trading a Smith and Wesson 686-6 for the Saiga. I was the first owner of the S&W and kept it in great shape. I'd had it for about four years and had shot it at LEAST 3000 times. Nothing that cleaning it after every outing with a silicate cloth couldn't cover up. But anyway I asked the guy what the Saiga was. I thought it was some kind of funky new SKS or something. I don't personally like the SKS, and I've shot a couple so I can base my opinion on personal experience. Anyway the guys like, "no its an AK base, made by Izmash, etc.." So I feel her up (the rifle) and I like what I see. So I showed him the S&W and he said he'd do an over the counter trade. Now not to be a dumb ass who goes and buys a gun without knowing anything about it I went home and looked at the Saiga 7.62 on the internet for about two hours. Did my research (thanks mostly to this site ) and decided it was a good trade. Anyway so now I have the rifle. Now what to do with it? First of all I don't have the tools to convert it into the basic AK 103 So there you have it right? Just about every damn thing you can do to the Saiga without moding the receiver in any way. I think the slightly extended reach on a Saiga with a pistol grip/stock and forward pistol grip compared to the standard AK model will be more comfortable to hold and shoot. I have long arms and being able to mount the pistol grip way up front will be nice. I have a couple of friends with regular pre-ban AK's and I've shot them a few times. They're good rifles but with my mods to my new baby I'll take the Saiga over the AK any day. . . . I should get a green laser. That would be freaking sweet! Nick well im not sure what your trying to say there but i dont think i ever asked for your life story, i was jus asking for some help. i just got my .223 in today. here it is:: I wasn't saying anything. I just outlined basically EVERYTHING you can do to your Saiga WITHOUT modifying the receiver. I figured your could find the products yourself but here's a few links to get you started ok? ACE stocks: http://www.riflestocks.com/SaigaAK.htm http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/SaigaStocks.html Forward Tactical Grips: http://www.rangersales.com/index.php?main_...ex&cPath=31 Tritium Front Sight made to replace the regular Saiga screw in front sight: http://www.dsarms.com/products.asp?dept=23...n=&sort_by= Compensators: JTac http://www.blackjackbuffers.com/index.php?...main_page=index Tromix: http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caughtlikefire 0 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 With TAPCO, you get what you pay for. Remember that it's plastic - whereas everything on the ACE stock is metal. just thought I'd add that ACE makes a stock/grip for the Saiga that doesn't require conversion . . . http://riflestocks.com/SaigaAK.htm I would think that this is the best way to go for someone who doesn't want to do a real conversion Quote Link to post Share on other sites
darelles 0 Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 i would just like to mention first that im a little nub in this forum and this will be my first post. i just got my saiga .223 and i was wondering if theres a way to put a pistol grip on my gun without moving the trigger forward or doing any major mods to it. id like to put something like this on---- i found that on any suggestions? Here is a pic of my saiga 7.62 with the modifed Tapco collapsable stock with pistol grip It's a option with having to move the trigger. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
b2673ad 0 Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Hello Here is my Saiga with the same modified Tapco stock & handle from Saiga Stocks. Plus I added the Tapco handguard. Next will be a scope & then a flash suppressor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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