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edelweiss

SPORTING STOCK

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Does anybody eles like the rifle as imported? YES I know they had to bastardize it to bring it here. I know it was ment to have a pistol grip, BUT I like it this way. I know Im not the only one to call it a 'poor mans' SOCOM. I think its even more like the old HK SL7 or the G43.

 

I know a pistol grip allows carry at the ready while slung cross body and some may say its points more natural, but for me a conventional wood and steel rifle wins out. In the past Ive picked a SKS over a AK of M16, because it was a better rifle for me. I'll pass up the full auto feature to be able to buttstroke when thinks are up close and personal.

 

I just picked up a S308 with a 16 inch barrel for my "zombie" rifle. Im gonna add a couple lights on the handguards and 4or5 8 round mags (maybe converted to 10rounders) and that should be fine for me. Next I want a 21 inch that Im thinking about adding a scope, not for sniping but more to extend the engagement ranges.

 

Maybe it was to much time with a M21 and a M24 but, am I the only one that likes the regular stock?

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I have 2 308 Saigas. Both are the 22" version, one wood and one synthetic. Both are easily 1" gun off the bench with good handloads. Have used them extensively for whitetail hunting over the last 5 years, taking over a dozen deer, including several nice bucks. All with the guns in original form. If it wasn't for the trigger, I would not even consider converting these. Have resisted so far, but will eventually convert the synthetic stocked one. The wood stocked one will remain in sporter config.

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I like my S-.308 woodie stock, and also My S-12. But I converted the wife's S-.410, and I want to get an S-.223 and convert that too, for X-39, I am building my own from a 100% receiver.

I like the longer conventional feel for heavier calibers, and short, fast handling PG for the lighter stuff.

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+1 on GOB... i like the PG on my 7.62. the 308 i left stock. i did mount a posp scope and it's nice. i shoot it pretty well even with iron sights with a sling. maybe a bipod to it - i'm debating if i'm hanging too much stuff on it with that.

 

also... anyone here unscrew the back part of the stock and put goodies inside? i'm thinking storing some ammo in there, etc. thoughts?

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Im actually thinking that I may try to make the 21inch model into something of a modern G43 (or SL7 if I can mount a HK rear site). First I have to find a band to go around an upper and lower handguard that I can also use for a sling mount. Its all kinda in the air now until I get the 16incher finished, so theres lots of scheeming still to be done.

 

Im confused why anyone would convert the 223 and 762x39s, when "classic" AKs are available in those calibers. The 308 makes more sense to me if you must convert. I am intriqued by a suggestion I heard about making a Yugu 8mm clone especially in 308. Dont misunderstand me, it was the TROMIX guns that got me interested, and the idea of a compact 308 is interesting, BUT ultimately the base price of the Saigas sold me.

 

Now If I can get on Battlerifle G3s next list for some crazy custom stuff.....

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I have a 223 and a 308. I'd like to comvert them both 1) to be able to legally use the hi cap mags I have and 2) well, they just look and feel better.

 

For a SHTF I wouldn't care, they'd kill with or without a PG, G2, etc.

 

The S-308 I was thinking of making my MBR, but with the shortage of and high price of 308, I'll just stick with my Norinco AK in 7.62x39. Be a shame to go to all the trouble and cost of converting the s308 only to have it dry up on me after a couple hundred rounds and then be basically worthless.

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Well I cant see 308 ever drying up, but it surely will become more expensive just like 3006 used to be cheap and readily available as surplus.

 

As far as a MBR, I personally would put a S308 (converted or not), among the top choices . Back in the day it was FN FAL, G3, and maybe M14, versus the AK and SKS. Now you have a AK in 308 at a great price, and its hard to imagine a better alternative. There was a time that I wouldnt have chosen anything but a G3 for a go to war rifle, but that was when we were so sure the Soviets were coming through the Fuda Gap at any moment, or the Cubans were going to overrun all of Southern Africa. Now times have changed and so have our likely enemies. I no longer have my "uncle" paying for my equipment or my time, and sadly many of the options are no longer avialable, (try to find a reasonable priced HK91).

 

Although 223/556 is here to stay, 308/762x51 is not going anywhere for the time being. When the 223 vs 308 debate was raging I picked and still pick the 308. I'll suffer less rounds or the extra weight for a harder hit at longer ranges. The Soviets may well have found a good compromise with the 762x39, just like the Germans did in WW2 with the 8mmKurz. They are good intermediate rounds but not panaceas for all combat. I for one would rather face the extra weight of 308 than the alternative of being under gunned at longer ranges.

 

If youre planning your own logistics, consider what role youre likely to put yourself in that requires the firepower of a MBR and your stockpiles of onhand ammo. If its for a "that day" situation I'll still take the 308, as it will serve a dual purpose of hunting two and four legged animals.

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Well I cant see 308 ever drying up, but it surely will become more expensive just like 3006 used to be cheap and readily available as surplus.

 

As far as a MBR, I personally would put a S308 (converted or not), among the top choices . Back in the day it was FN FAL, G3, and maybe M14, versus the AK and SKS. Now you have a AK in 308 at a great price, and its hard to imagine a better alternative. There was a time that I wouldnt have chosen anything but a G3 for a go to war rifle, but that was when we were so sure the Soviets were coming through the Fuda Gap at any moment, or the Cubans were going to overrun all of Southern Africa. Now times have changed and so have our likely enemies. I no longer have my "uncle" paying for my equipment or my time, and sadly many of the options are no longer avialable, (try to find a reasonable priced HK91).

 

Although 223/556 is here to stay, 308/762x51 is not going anywhere for the time being. When the 223 vs 308 debate was raging I picked and still pick the 308. I'll suffer less rounds or the extra weight for a harder hit at longer ranges. The Soviets may well have found a good compromise with the 762x39, just like the Germans did in WW2 with the 8mmKurz. They are good intermediate rounds but not panaceas for all combat. I for one would rather face the extra weight of 308 than the alternative of being under gunned at longer ranges.

 

If youre planning your own logistics, consider what role youre likely to put yourself in that requires the firepower of a MBR and your stockpiles of onhand ammo. If its for a "that day" situation I'll still take the 308, as it will serve a dual purpose of hunting two and four legged animals.

Good post, I agree.

 

To expand upon your point about the 308 vs. the 7.62 and follow it to its logical conclusion, if carrying more rounds is all-important, then make a Ruger 10/22 your MBR as you can carry 2,000 rounds rather easily. Of course, you won't kill anything, but hey, at least you'll have a lot of rounds, right?

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Well I cant see 308 ever drying up, but it surely will become more expensive just like 3006 used to be cheap and readily available as surplus.

 

As far as a MBR, I personally would put a S308 (converted or not), among the top choices . Back in the day it was FN FAL, G3, and maybe M14, versus the AK and SKS. Now you have a AK in 308 at a great price, and its hard to imagine a better alternative. There was a time that I wouldnt have chosen anything but a G3 for a go to war rifle, but that was when we were so sure the Soviets were coming through the Fuda Gap at any moment, or the Cubans were going to overrun all of Southern Africa. Now times have changed and so have our likely enemies. I no longer have my "uncle" paying for my equipment or my time, and sadly many of the options are no longer avialable, (try to find a reasonable priced HK91).

 

Although 223/556 is here to stay, 308/762x51 is not going anywhere for the time being. When the 223 vs 308 debate was raging I picked and still pick the 308. I'll suffer less rounds or the extra weight for a harder hit at longer ranges. The Soviets may well have found a good compromise with the 762x39, just like the Germans did in WW2 with the 8mmKurz. They are good intermediate rounds but not panaceas for all combat. I for one would rather face the extra weight of 308 than the alternative of being under gunned at longer ranges.

 

If youre planning your own logistics, consider what role youre likely to put yourself in that requires the firepower of a MBR and your stockpiles of onhand ammo. If its for a "that day" situation I'll still take the 308, as it will serve a dual purpose of hunting two and four legged animals.

Good post, I agree.

 

To expand upon your point about the 308 vs. the 7.62 and follow it to its logical conclusion, if carrying more rounds is all-important, then make a Ruger 10/22 your MBR as you can carry 2,000 rounds rather easily. Of course, you won't kill anything, but hey, at least you'll have a lot of rounds, right?

 

.22's have probably killed more people than an other single caliber outside of WAR.

 

.22 Revolver. Penetrates skull. No casing, bullet deforms beyond recognition. Untraceable. That's why the mob used the .22 in all their hits. No bullet? No ballistic comparison. No casing? No fingerprints.

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Does anybody know if there is a similar to OEM type of stock that drops the hand down a little, more in keeping with a natural hand hold? The one that came with the rifle has my hand sitting so high up in line with the barrel that it's almost uncomfortable for me to hold. Conversely, the MUCH more ergonomic grip would be a pistol grip, but is a no-no here in Kommie-fornia unless there is a RaddLock or similar attached. (even then you get funny looks)

 

Just looking for a replacement stock that will drop the angle of the wrist a little lower, towards the angle of pistol grip, but not actually a 'pistol grip'.

 

Any ideas? :D

 

Cheers,

Paul

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No argument here about the 308 - I love it and my S308, my point was and is that you have to think about availability - and the surplus 308 just ain't there right now thanks to Clinton.

 

I went to one of the bigger gun stores here in Billings Montana that sells military rifles/guns and not just hunting weapons - they usually have literally pallets of cases of ammo - 762x39, 223, and others, but they only had a few dozen cases of X39. Maybe just under a case of 308! They were also waiting for 223. I know they move alot of ammo, but when the SHTF and you have to stock up - assuming you haven't already - you have to have a weapon that has at least some case lot availability - and that's just not 308 right now. Not unless you're Thurston Howell III.

 

Now if there's someone out there who's into charity and would like to throw a little 308 surplus my way - sure, I'm not too proud to take it! But for now, I reduced to buying a box here and there at Wally World - new production, expensive crap.

Edited by Squib

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No argument here about the 308 - I love it and my S308, my point was and is that you have to think about availability - and the surplus 308 just ain't there right now thanks to Clinton.

 

I agree its not cheap and I think you can blame most of the polititicians from the last 20 years, all the way back to George the 1st. He sold us out way before "read my lips", when he started the ban on importation. As far as stocking up Ive found the best way is to buy a box more than I shoot, and when I can, I pick up a can or so at a show just to "prop" up the table in my basement.

 

If this was a perfect world, we'd be required to keep a supply of "Homeland Defense" equipment in the hall closet, but it anit so do the best you can with what you got.

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What we now call a "sporting stock" was yesterday's military stock. And there's a reason they needed they didn't use pistol grips "yesterday". Rifles needed full length beefy stocks with minimal protrusions because the bayonet was considered a major battle implement. Before the M1 Garand and its curved grip, the grip was straight. Before that, in the days of the arquebuse, there wasn't even a notch in the top for the thumb. Basically, the farther back you go, the closer a firearm with a bayonet looks to a polearm, because as the actual firing capabilities increased, the amount of use as a polearm decreased.

 

Nowadays we think that large capacity magazines, high rates of fire, and long range accuracy have eliminated the need for a bayonet. But recently in the Iraq War, a group of highlanders with bullpups of all things decided that charging a holed up group of insurgents with bayonets was safer than letting themselves be picked off at a distance, and they did so successfully.

 

To me, one of the beauties of the AK design is its versatility in configurations like this. All you need is an extended trigger or linkage to switch from a p-grip config to the Saiga config we know and love. You can't do that with the AR-15 because it needs its buttstock for the recoil spring. FALs, G3s, and the cutting edge 223 rifles (G36, Masada, XCR, etc) all ignore this feature too, while claiming to be versatile and modular.

 

If I ever do end up developing some of the rifles I've been designing for years, they will probably look a little bit like an AK for this very reason.

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Does anybody eles like the rifle as imported?

Yup. My 16" has it's original stock and always will. It also has a scope. With with an 8 round mag you can get low in the dirt, less hassel for sure when hunting or trying to stay low. I can see adding a second one to convert to a folder just to have a set of two. The other thing is the standard stock with a scope is a simple gun I can hand to any family member and know they can cover a large area with it.

 

I agree and I call it a poor man's .308. It is a fantastic value if left just as it is.

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I agree. One of the only reasons I'm looking to convert is so I can use my high caps. It really is the perfect poor mans MBR.

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Use a USA gas piston and gas tube (needs mods) and if the mag body and floorplate are USA you will be OK unconverted-as long as you don't put any more "forign" parts on it.

I have no plans to ever convert my woodie.

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Use a USA gas piston and gas tube (needs mods) and if the mag body and floorplate are USA you will be OK unconverted-as long as you don't put any more "forign" parts on it.

I have no plans to ever convert my woodie.

 

 

 

I would prefer not to convert my 308 either.....just love it as it is....

 

GOB....does the .308 use the standard AK piston rod?

 

what mods are needed for the gas tube? are you sure the gas tube counts as a part?....thought someone ruled that one out a while back.

 

 

thinking maybe BRG3 could make me a simple buttstock, and get the piston then i would be good to go with high caps.....

 

thanks

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What about using Dizag's unconverted trigger(uses two G2 parts) plus a U.S. piston. New FBMGs one part. Total four. If Surefires then, that makes Six. Plus still able to use the Original, since the factory configuration isn't changed. Is this correct 922r math?

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The standard gaspiston works. You will need to grind off a bit of the front on the carrier. The Saiga piston does not have a flange like the USA kind do. So you need to mark carefully how much to grind off to come up with the same overall length.

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