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localfiend

Pressing off a Saiga-12 Gas Block

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I'm looking to remove my S-12 gas tube so that I can have Dinzag add handguard retainers and an AK sight block - but I'm not quite sure how to go about it.

 

I've been told that there are two pins that need to be removed before the gas block can be moved (and that I only need to move it 1/4 of an inch) - but I have several questions. Which two pins to I need to remove before this can happen - and how many pieces is the whole gas assembly. From what I can tell there is the gas block, the gas tube, and the rear sight block. Are they all welded together - and if not how do I go about pressing this thing off?

 

Here's some pics with all the pins numbered - which two do I remove?

 

rightfront.jpg

 

rightrear.jpg

 

I know #6 is the barrel pin - but I can't tell if it needs to come out to remove the rear sight block.

 

Thanks a bunch guys. Once I get this figured out edit my posts and lay things out nicely for the next guy who comes along.

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I'm looking to remove my S-12 gas tube so that I can have Dinzag add handguard retainers and an AK sight block - but I'm not quite sure how to go about it.

 

I've been told that there are two pins that need to be removed before the gas block can be moved (and that I only need to move it 1/4 of an inch) - but I have several questions. Which two pins to I need to remove before this can happen - and how many pieces is the whole gas assembly. From what I can tell there is the gas block, the gas tube, and the rear sight block. Are they all welded together - and if not how do I go about pressing this thing off?

 

Here's some pics with all the pins numbered - which two do I remove?

 

rightfront.jpg

 

rightrear.jpg

 

I know #6 is the barrel pin - but I can't tell if it needs to come out to remove the rear sight block.

 

Thanks a bunch guys. Once I get this figured out edit my posts and lay things out nicely for the next guy who comes along.

 

I removed the Gas Block on my .410 and had to remove the pins you have labeled as #3 and #5 to get it off. A 12 looks different as it has more pins than the .410 has altogether. #6 pin does not need to be touched. Once you move the GB forward a little the gas tube and rear sight base will come out as one piece. Send a email to Dinzag to verify the correct pins on the GB. wish you luck

Edited by Superhawk138

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Glad to know I don't have to mess with the barrel pin. So once I figure out which pins to remove how do I go about actually pressing it off? I've seen pictures of an AK method that involves supporting the gas block with a metric wrench while pressing down on the barrel. Is something similar done here or do there a better method.

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Nice Jig!

 

I don't think there are any pins in the #1 and #4 positions. I'm not sure what to think of #2...

 

Tony? What's the deal with that? :unsure:

 

I only had to remove two pins to get my gas block off. Unless they have changed that too about the new S-12s (which yours obviously is, looking at that front sight) you should be able to remove it by following the instructions I put in this thread...

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...17824&st=60

 

(unless #2 is actually a pin) If Tony doesn't chime in maybe you should send him a PM about this. He will know for sure.

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now ya have, looks like to me pins 2 and 5, looks like 1 is not there and 3 is the crosspin that holds in the gas selector plunger

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Uh oh, when the experts are confused bad things happen. :o

 

All of my numbers really look like pins to me - though 1 & 4 could be some strange machining mark. They are more visible on the other side, guess I'll need to get pictures up - I didn't bother as I figured it was normal. This is one of the 2007 Saiga's so they musta changed something. Thanks for the links Cobra & davehal - I missed those in my search for previous info. I was gonna try and use my shop press - but wood and a hammer might be easier than messing around with a jig - guess I'll just have to see how hard it is to get off.

 

Additionally, how hard was it for you guys to drive out the pins. I tried on pin #5 and just ended up bending my punch. I may have to rig some really short pins up and try my press , but in the meantime I need to buy some more punches (this time not from Harbor Freight).

 

Thanks

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oh i know that feeling, snapped one of the smaller HF punches driving out the rivets out of the reciever, sucked really bad

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I'd go with #3 and #5. #6 is a barrel pin, and the others I'm guessing are casting marks. If you look at the size and relation of 3 & 5 to the barrel, you can tell that they definately pin it, the others look a bit too far away from the barrel to do any good as pins. Soak that block real good with a penetrating oil, remove 3 &

5, and if your worried about trying to press it off still, give the block a couple of good whacks with a rubber mallet on the side and see if it moves (you can tell by looking through the holes of the pins that you did remove). If the block cants when you whack it, I'd think your good to go.....doesn't look like anyone else has ever seen more than those two.

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I'd go with #3 and #5. #6 is a barrel pin, and the others I'm guessing are casting marks. If you look at the size and relation of 3 & 5 to the barrel, you can tell that they definately pin it, the others look a bit too far away from the barrel to do any good as pins. Soak that block real good with a penetrating oil, remove 3 &

5, and if your worried about trying to press it off still, give the block a couple of good whacks with a rubber mallet on the side and see if it moves (you can tell by looking through the holes of the pins that you did remove). If the block cants when you whack it, I'd think your good to go.....doesn't look like anyone else has ever seen more than those two.

 

 

Yah, I think that's what I'm going to do. Got any suggestions for what type of oil (don't know of any specifically that are penetrating) I've got it soaking in WD40 for now while I wait to get better punches.

 

Thanks for the help guys.

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Take a wire brush to it and take the paint off, you'll be able to tell the difference between the steel pens and the cast metal.

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i still say 2 and 5 are the pins that need to be knocked out, 3 looks like its the crosspin retainer for the valve selection pin

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The Russians are well known for overkill in the designs for some of these parts but I can see no reason why they would go to the extra trouble of adding 1, 2, or even 3 extra crosspins to a design that already works fine.

#s 5 and 3 are the ones you need to knock out. Mine came out pretty easy. Knock the #5 out first. Then when you drive the #3 pin out leave the punch in place while you hold the plunger for the gas regulator. It will fly out under spring pressure if you just pull the punch back out. remove the spring too and put those where they won't get lost.

 

If you are using a hammer instead of a press to get the block off, get a large diameter brass punch to use for this. Wood may not be hard enough for the initial removal. It's good to use for driving it back on though.

 

For penetrating oil I use Liquid Wrench.

 

 

OK HERE IS CONFIRMATION.

 

I just looked back at my pics from the removal of my gas block.

The casting marks are plainly visible here...there are no extra pins other than 3 and 5.

These pics also show the plunger and spring in detail with one showing the punch holding the plunger from flying out.

post-1293-1201448420_thumb.jpg

post-1293-1201448459_thumb.jpg

post-1293-1201448469_thumb.jpg

Edited by Cobra 76 two

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Localfiend-

 

Did you ever get your gas block off ? I just got my Saiga 12, hence newbie on here, and cant get mine off either. I removed the two usual pins and beat the crap out of it. Still wont budge. Oh, added heat too. Next step is to manufacture the jig.

 

Mark

ARguy

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Localfiend-

 

Did you ever get your gas block off ? I just got my Saiga 12, hence newbie on here, and cant get mine off either. I removed the two usual pins and beat the crap out of it. Still wont budge. Oh, added heat too. Next step is to manufacture the jig.

 

Mark

ARguy

 

I use a 12" piece of brass rod 1/2" dia. support end of barrel on block of wood on floor

 

Make sure you have the pins removed.

 

Use a 5 pound hand sledge, a light wieght ball peen will bounce and you will lose energy.

 

Take your time and it will come off.

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Thanks for the confirmation Cobra (I'm quite glad there are not a bunch of new pins to mess with).

 

I have not yet removed the block, but I got ahold of some new punches today and I will be making another attempt tonight. I have a shop press so I won't be messing with the same jig in the other thread but I will let you know how it goes.

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Alternating from one side to the other when driving it off seems be a good idea.

 

Excellent cscharlie!! :super:

It also helps to hit it from the side and reverse that action a few times to help work the oil in there.

 

+1 on BIG hammer and punch.

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I just picked up my '12 today and started in on the conversion. First time doing so, or anything like it. Mine has only the pins at the 3 and 5 positions. Nothing else on mine even resembles a pin.

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This gas block is kicking my ass. When you guys use the big hammer method, where exactly are you hitting it? Between the barrel and the gas tube?

Edited by Davehal9000

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This gas block is kicking my ass. When you guys use the big hammer method, where exactly are you hitting it? Between the barrel and the gas tube?

 

 

You have the pins removed I assume?

 

Have you used any kind of oil? I finally had a chance to work on mine today and it slid right off when I used the press in conjuction with some lube. It didn't take hardly any pressure at all to remove it - far, far less than removing an AK barrel. I think it would have come off with a hammer and brass punch with little difficulty (though I would expect every gas block out there to be different.)

 

If I was to attempt the hammer method I think I would punch everywhere I could get a good hold. I imagine the lip under the barrel would be about the best spot. Best advice I can give you is to use lots of lube - a little heat - and go slowly. I've broken too many things by getting frustrated.

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Pins came out quite easily using a nail and a hammer. Tried liquid wrench. Tried heat. No joy so far.

You might want to try a little trick someone told me about. I've never actually tried it but I have never been in a position where I had to. Sounds like you are so you may want to try it at your own risk.

 

Get a hose of some sort that will fit down you barrel and run icy cold water thru it (or just run the water straight thru the Bbl) while you heat up the GB with a torch and get it good and hot. You should start to see lube cooking out from between the Bbl and GB. The idea is to expand the metal on the outside while keeping the metal on the inside cold and not expanding. You would of course, have to allow a small space at the muzzle for the water to run out if using the hammer and punch method. (or just do the heating and cooling while the Bbl is over a tub or something, then when the GB is good and hot, quickly get in position to knock it off, or press it off)

Also very important...make sure you have the muzzle on a HARD surface like a concrete floor, with a wood block between it and the floor to protect the steel.

 

Like I said, I've never tried it but what the hell. I would if I needed to. I don't see what it could hurt.

 

Does anyone else?

 

 

<edit>

Now that I think about it some more...make sure you don't have a rubber or plastic hose in the spot where you are heating, just to be sure it doesn't melt to the bore, that would be a bitch to clean out.

Edited by Cobra 76 two

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Exactly what part of the gun are you whacking with the hammer or punch? Is it going to screw anything up hitting what would be the rear sight base with say a rubber or rawhide mallet? Or are you hitting the gas block itself? Nobody in town has brass punches and they look at me like I'm asking for a flux capacitor.

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LOL flux capacitor...tell em you want to order a B-2000 space modulator to knock the damn thing off with a laser beam then. :lolol:

I got my set of brass punches from one of those cheapo tool places like Northern or Harbor Freight. Came as a pair, not very expensive. You may be able to get away with blocks of hickory or oak if you can't find brass punces. Anything softer than steel that won't deform too fast...You don't want to go beating on the gas block itself with a hammer. You will ding it all up and possibly crack it. It's not very thick where the force needs to be applied. Look at the pics in that "tutorial" I linked to and you can see exactly where I was placing the punch for maximum effect, on either side of the center portion between the bbl and gas tube. Hit it alternately with good solid whacks and be sure you have a very solid base to hold it against. The pics also show the punches.

good luck

Edited by Cobra 76 two

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Dinzag just sent me some pics. There's not nearly as much exposed metal on mine as there is in the one pictured. It definitly makes it harded, but I'm sure it can still be done.

 

I finally went through Amazon and found a box of six 1/2" brass punches for like $8.

 

On a side note, what's the hole on the left side of the gas block for? Never noticed that on anyone else's photos, but maybe I haven't looked that hard.

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