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Wakal

New Toy in progress: Competition Saiga

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Not even remotely done yet, but here is what it looks like so far. A short gas system, mid-barrel-comp, adjustable-choke shotgun. After this picture was taken, the extended mag lever was clamped on and a 'speed tab' was welded to the safety. The shotgun rolled out to a match the next morning :) It still needs a bunch of welding, a new stock, a finish of some sort, a new handguard...

 

Only five more shotguns to hack up before we figure out what the heck we are doing (or we run out of shotguns) ;)

 

ProtoSaiga_1.jpg

 

ProtoSaiga_2.jpg

 

ProtoSaiga_3.jpg

 

But....it really needs a mag well!

 

 

 

 

Alex

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Yeah, all the other 3-gun geeks were whining up a storm even as rough as it is :)

 

Learned something this match, too. Two competitors with the current state of the art gear, about equal in ability, toward the top of the game overall...but one with a antique and the other with a modern gun...the modern gun was about ten percent faster over a 18 round field course under match conditions. Interesting. I will try to track this through other matches :chris:

 

 

Alex

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Not even remotely done yet, but here is what it looks like so far. A short gas system, mid-barrel-comp, adjustable-choke shotgun. After this picture was taken, the extended mag lever was clamped on and a 'speed tab' was welded to the safety. The shotgun rolled out to a match the next morning :) It still needs a bunch of welding, a new stock, a finish of some sort, a new handguard...

 

Only five more shotguns to hack up before we figure out what the heck we are doing (or we run out of shotguns) ;)

 

ProtoSaiga_1.jpg

 

ProtoSaiga_2.jpg

 

ProtoSaiga_3.jpg

 

But....it really needs a mag well!

 

 

 

 

Alex

Wow Wakal that thing is looking mean. How many rounds does that mag yeild? :super:

Edited by Superhawk138

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Alex,

At my last 3 gun we had a bunch of guys (tube feeders) saying this "man I got to get one of those" regarding the Saiga and ours are not nearly as tricked out as yours. RonSwin and I were joking around wondering how many Saiga's we sold that day.

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The mag is an easy 12 (no stress ;) ).

 

The mount is an interesting concept. Easy to keep both eyes open using it, harder to get the cover in place. The jury is still out on that one.

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The mag is an easy 12 (no stress ;) ).

 

The mount is an interesting concept. Easy to keep both eyes open using it, harder to get the cover in place. The jury is still out on that one.

 

Maybe we need a thread for best optic placement there are a lot of threads about which optic but often a few things are missed like what MOA, and where to put it.

 

Right now mine is out on the barrel it works for me and I plan to leave it there for a long time. The set up allows me to use the sights as a back up if needed. That said I do like your concept of haveing it almost like a monical you show great creativity and innovation with your optic placement good luck you might be on to something there.

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Very nice, Alex!! I'm always interested in how the other Saiga owners "customize" their shotguns for their particular needs. Kinda reminds me of bike week at Daytona except the mods are usually a lot more functional (and less chrome). I came to a realization at one of the last matches in '07 that if I'm going to be in Open Class I might as well put an optic of some sort on my Saiga-12. I'm still trying to visualize what would work for me.

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Looks good.

 

You can probably just use a Tapco Galil handguard and scrw it straight to the gas block. It should be the right length.

 

Tony

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in looking at the top view of the barrel and mid-length comp.... I notice that where your gas block USED to be there are only 3 gas holes... not 4.

 

If that's a new gun, maybe they're manufacturing with 3 and not 4 ports???

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It will end up with a Tapco handguard; that was what it was sized for :)

 

Once I get the welder going, it will be no holes. This is an older shotgun; the four that we have disassambled so far all have three gas ports...

 

 

 

 

 

Alex

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in looking at the top view of the barrel and mid-length comp.... I notice that where your gas block USED to be there are only 3 gas holes... not 4.

 

If that's a new gun, maybe they're manufacturing with 3 and not 4 ports???

 

 

MY 07 gun has only 3 ports.

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Only five more shotguns to hack up before we figure out what the heck we are doing (or we run out of shotguns) ;)

 

well it wouldn't be fun then would it?

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How are you liking the mid barrel comp set up and does it help with recoil much? Also, do you get much, if any, back blast from it, and if so does it bother you any. It's turning out to be a nice looking rig Alex....looks like these little gems are starting to take a turn in the right dirrection. Good to be at the front of the learning curve (;

Might want to post how you like it with the new handguard too. Oddly enough, I've kind of come full circle and the factory one feels about as good as any to me.

Also, did you open the cover hole up any, or just remove the flap from the carrier return spring assy?

Edited by 6500rpm

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How are you liking the mid barrel comp set up and does it help with recoil much? Also, do you get much, if any, back blast from it, and if so does it bother you any.

 

Definitely a nice looking gun. I suspect the back blast is felt quite a bit more by the RO or anyone else off center than the shooter. I'd be curious also about the reduction in recoil.

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All my Saigas have the cover removed...not much reason to have 'em except looks, and I ain't good lookin' anyway :)

 

Comp blast is pretty minimal...nothing like an AR. I'm in no hurry to put my paw over the ports or anything, but it isn't like great gouts of flame are spraying out the ports. Shotguns just don't generate the same pressure as rifles, which is why the comp is in the middle of the barrel ;)

 

This shotgun is a few ounces over seven pounds, and shoots as flat and soft as a JP Open 1100 that weighs half again as much. It swings through target arrays fast, settles into place well, and has more of a rifle feel to the recoil pulse...a straight back sort of fast push instead of the long "puuuuuuush" and flip of a normal shotgun. Interesting, to say the least. DI is working on getting these comps into general production now (CNC, so the halves match up :haha: ).

 

 

 

Alex

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Shotguns just don't generate the same pressure as rifles, which is why the comp is in the middle of the barrel...DI is working on getting these comps into general production now.

I love the idea of using a mid-barrel comp to maximize pressure scavenging, but will the gun still cycle with the regular gas system/gas ports? Does anyone produce a shortened gas system? Or would DI include that in the comp package? Any projected price of the entire kit and caboodle?

 

Thanks!

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Fred's famous 'red gun' has the first generation comp on it and a factory gas system. We did have to open the gas ports to get it to cycle reliably with the comp...and opening gas ports is a LOT easier than relocating the gas system.

 

Once all the kinks are worked out, I expect that both parts and complete guns will be offered. However, right now it is all prototypes and playtoys for overgrown kids :)

 

 

 

Alex

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Lookin good Alex! Don't worry, that magwell is well on the way to being available. I'm installing one on my gun today to test it with the other new goodies ;)

Hey is that an old Cutts comp on there? Poly? ?

I have one just like it that I got a while back from another member here. How do you like it? I was wondering how much difference there was between that and the very similar ported Poly with the vents in front, instead of behind the choke. I haven't tried it yet because the inlet for the barrel on mine is a larger ID than the OD of the Saiga-12 barrel, which is odd because it came off of a 24" barreled S-12...

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when the mid barrel comp is off the gun, are there just some small holes in the barrel or is it a few LARGE holes? Could you take a photo of the barrel with the comp removed? I ask because you could also create a clamp-down sleeve that would cover the holes and be more... compact... and allow you to regain the (almost) original gun look.

Edited by SaigaNoobie

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There are lot of (smallish) holes under the comp...still playing with varied sizes and placements. Yes, you could easily machine up a little...sleeve...to bolt over the holes :) There is a sleeve to bolt over a F2 for much the same reason :smoke:

 

That is an old comp put out by a old-time shotgun company in conjunction with Polychoke, back in the day. The theory was that the expansion chamber scrubbed off some velocity and "pulled" the gun forward with the shot column and expanding gases, retarding the wad and making the shot column fly on its own without the wad messing with the pattern. Yeah, well...nice theory. Fred and I liked the way it looked, and since looks counts for something our personal guns are a little different.

 

I have a bunch of old adjustable chokes, with and without the slots (most forward of the constriction though). With a big lathe and a decent torch, they are easy to install and beat the heck out of removeable chokes for us lazy bastards.

 

On the Poly with the big inlet side...sounds like the threaded adaptor is missing from the assembly ;)

 

 

 

 

A

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That is a slick set up Alex. Are you doing anything with your other project yet, fxcker! :haha:

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Nice Cutts Compensator on the end!

I have one just like it on my 1943 I believe remington Model 11 military contract gun. Remington verified that they did come from the factory with them on. The M11 is the same as a browning A5 and with it on you have to set the spring to the lowest setting to get it to cycle so I know they do cut recoil. That M11 does pattern nice and it seems easy to bust clays with so maybe they do do something.

post-797-1202163255.jpg

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I don't recall seeing a Saiga 12 with four gas ports...

 

Mike, the "other" project? I just stole the springs for my spare parts kit, put a Poly on the barrel (to see if I liked it better than the Briley internal chokes on my other barrel), and still need to send the recoil spring guide/op rod thing out to be hard chromed so maybe it will not pit like the other ones :)

 

That isn't a Cutt's compensator, by the way, it is a vintage rip-off from the early 50's :D

 

Got that stock at a gun show a while back; I need to find some more. Although I am working on a laminate stock profiled to our own spec's. SHOT gave us some contacts on the mid-barrel comp, too. As soon as we get the Solidworks file complete, I have three folks to bid on machining them en masse and one company to look at doing them as an investment casting. Interesting times!

 

 

 

Alex

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