Sharpshooter 225 0 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 This has nothing to do with Saiga-12s, so the moderators can move this as they see fit. My buddy called me from the 2008 Shot Show in Vegas this week to tell me about a new bullpup 12 ga. semi-auto shotgun that was on display. It has a 16 round detachable "4 tube" rotary feed system. Made by a company I'd never heard of located in Meridian, ID - SRM Arms. They call it their Model 1216. My buddy handled it and thought it was neat. Sounds interesting but the price would probably be a bit too high for me.... I know a lot of you guys like high-cap shotguns. I searched and found a "coming soon" pdf that shows pictures and thought I'd share. It's at www.srmarms.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) double tap...sorry Edited February 6, 2008 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Holy shit that's awesome! It's a revolving cylinder sort of like that.....shhhhhhhhhhh HMMMMMMM Ya know, if they sell that to the general public then I don't want to hear any more crying about the S-12 going DD because of a drum mag coming out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mib2nd 1 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 VERY cool looking...... but.... how does the magazine work? 1. Do you have to manually rotate the magazine or 2. Does it rotate like a revolver cylinder while firing (problematic if your holding on to it like a hand gaurd while firing) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 We will have to wait and see it is an interesting design lets see if it has any popularity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'd like it a lot better if it had sights, and it's tube fed, so it isn't gonna be as fast as the Saiga. But hey, lets wait and find out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 That is awesome!My old High Standard M10 Bullpup might have competition in the future if the price is right,which i doubt it will be or the Hillarys get back into office Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1liter 20 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 It definitly has merit and is cool looking, but I wonder if it will cost more than $250? Thats what I paid for my first S12. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 interesting design. Too bad it's built on the AR design. AR's are just so ugly. Also, it indeed looks like you rotate the mag by hand. I didn't see anything on it that would rotate it for you. So in essence it's 4, 4rd magazines with really quick reload. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Doesn't really look like an AR to me. Weird hybrid, 4 tube mags built into a rotating drum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 VERY cool looking...... but.... how does the magazine work? 1. Do you have to manually rotate the magazine or 2. Does it rotate like a revolver cylinder while firing (problematic if your holding on to it like a hand gaurd while firing) Dude. I love your Avatar. It's a real Killer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 This has nothing to do with Saiga-12s, so the moderators can move this as they see fit. My buddy called me from the 2008 Shot Show in Vegas this week to tell me about a new bullpup 12 ga. semi-auto shotgun that was on display. It has a 16 round detachable "4 tube" rotary feed system. Made by a company I'd never heard of located in Meridian, ID - SRM Arms. They call it their Model 1216. My buddy handled it and thought it was neat. Sounds interesting but the price would probably be a bit too high for me.... I know a lot of you guys like high-cap shotguns. I searched and found a "coming soon" pdf that shows pictures and thought I'd share. It's at www.srmarms.com Looks to complicated to use in a stessful situation. Fumble City. FMJ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I remember talking to someone at last years shotshow on something like this. I think you will find the tubes are rotated into place by hand. You fire one till it's empty then rotate the next into place. It will give quite a few rounds without a reload. Sort of reminds me of the Bushmaster Ibus, crossed with a HIgh Point.....If they put a hi point price on it watch out.......Still an interesting concept piece...and I wish them good luck... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheLibertarianMind 0 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) It would be really cool if it fired from open bolt... Imagine having 4 different types of ammo in the mag. You then could switch which ammo you want to shoot by manually rotating/indexing the mag to the desired type of ammo. Sweet. Pull the trigger, it chambers and fires, ejects, and the bolt stayed to the rear, allowing you to shoot again or index to a different type of ammo and fire again. If not open bolt, a mag tube shut off would be a nice feature. Edited February 6, 2008 by TheLibertarianMind Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 What shotgun does it look like? (Hint* http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh16-e.htm ) Look at the HUGE stock area. Guarantee that the SRM with the 16rd drum has a buffer tube in that monstrosity. Even if it were Open bolt (it definitely looks closed), the next round to fire would have to be in the receiver already. Either that or the rate of fire would be very low due to a delay between loading the 3-4" worth of travel from the mag to the bolt face. But this point is moot because it's a closed bolt design. The only way this gun could keep up with an S-12 would be if you fired 3rds, rotated the cylinder, fired 4, rotated, 4, rotated, 5. That would leave you with one in the chamber and 4 in the next tube each time. But imagine the hand shift during fire. You'd have to rotate & shift your hand back to fore-grip hold before you could stabilize the muzzle and put it back on target. Even then it couldn't keep up with 2 10rd stick mags or a 20rd drum. No way. Oh and how fast can you load the thing? No faster than a stick mag I bet. It's not like a trap-door tube where you can push in 4 rounds with only a spring in the way.... the feed lips on the inside of each tube in the cylinder look like they'd need to be pushed aside for it to load in. Let's go to the pros and cons: SRM1216 vs. S12 Pros: Uhh... Newer No protruding mags underneath Low-profile gas system. Cons: Ugly Slower reloads Smaller capacity AR ergonomics No place for vertical Foregrip Long name (the Saiga isn't the S125rd-8rd-10rd-20rd-drum) If it's the same gas system as an AR then RELIABILITY. Hands down winner, S12. Unless this shotgun costs $400, then it won't compete. (My guess is estimated retail at $1200) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Franky 2 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 What shotgun does it look like? (Hint* http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh16-e.htm ) Look at the HUGE stock area. Guarantee that the SRM with the 16rd drum has a buffer tube in that monstrosity. Even if it were Open bolt (it definitely looks closed), the next round to fire would have to be in the receiver already. Either that or the rate of fire would be very low due to a delay between loading the 3-4" worth of travel from the mag to the bolt face. But this point is moot because it's a closed bolt design. The only way this gun could keep up with an S-12 would be if you fired 3rds, rotated the cylinder, fired 4, rotated, 4, rotated, 5. That would leave you with one in the chamber and 4 in the next tube each time. But imagine the hand shift during fire. You'd have to rotate & shift your hand back to fore-grip hold before you could stabilize the muzzle and put it back on target. Even then it couldn't keep up with 2 10rd stick mags or a 20rd drum. No way. Oh and how fast can you load the thing? No faster than a stick mag I bet. It's not like a trap-door tube where you can push in 4 rounds with only a spring in the way.... the feed lips on the inside of each tube in the cylinder look like they'd need to be pushed aside for it to load in. Let's go to the pros and cons: SRM1216 vs. S12 Pros: Uhh... Newer No protruding mags underneath Low-profile gas system. Cons: Ugly Slower reloads Smaller capacity AR ergonomics No place for vertical Foregrip Long name (the Saiga isn't the S125rd-8rd-10rd-20rd-drum) If it's the same gas system as an AR then RELIABILITY. Hands down winner, S12. Unless this shotgun costs $400, then it won't compete. (My guess is estimated retail at $1200) Hmmmmmm? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Guess we all have a lot of questions Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 i played with it and spoke with the designer. it was a neat concept, but needs to be taken to the next level. that would be auto indexing/advancment. It took quite a bit of dexterity to rotate it. I bet with lot of practice, it would be very efficient. However, for the casual user, there could be problems. The pros were: compact size, balanced load, and slim mag design. Other SHOT show things of interest: Rugers new knock off of the Kel-Tec .380. If it is more reliable than the Kel-Tec, then we have a winner. Springfield XD with a thumb safety. Not that I think the firearm design needs any more safeties, however since I carry a 1911 cocked and locked, it would make transitioning between firearms very easy for muscle memory. I handled Sig Arms 1911s for the first time. Man, they are nice. I'm not easily impressed, but they have a nice look and feel. For the money, I also liked Taurus' 1911's. They had a ton of features and felt tight for MSRP of around $700. Last but not least, I spoke with the importer of Saigas. It looks like things are looking up with the volume of Saigas to come to the US. More automation on the part of the manufacturer will increase production numbers. I also picked up som cool Saiga freebies. The mose useful was a camoflauge "Saiga" can koozie. Caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidmdraege 0 Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 From what I can see, an idea solution might be to enlcose the rotating tubes within a sleeve. This would allow the tubes to rotate while allowing the shooter to maintain a forward grip. Then they could use the blowback action to rotate the tubes. Intead of emptying the tube before the tube is rotated, it should rotate the tubes on each shot, kind of like a gatling gun. 1) Fire a round, the bolt chambers back, ejects the shell, picks up a new shell 2) Bolt pushed forward by spring in buttstock and rotates to the next tube. Just my thought on how it could be done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Caspian. XD with Grip, trigger AND physical lock safety? Like a latch thumb operated safety? If that's true, I'm going to have to sell my xd .45 and get a new one. My only regret about the xd is that it has no thumb-latch safety. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) Caspian. XD with Grip, trigger AND physical lock safety? Like a latch thumb operated safety? If that's true, I'm going to have to sell my xd .45 and get a new one. My only regret about the xd is that it has no thumb-latch safety. correct. all the traditional safties of the XD PLUS a frame mounted ambi low profile thumb safety. very nice. Edited February 7, 2008 by Caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 The pros were: compact size, balanced load, and slim mag design. Is that some kind of a joke? The balance of the gun is going to vary dramatically when emptying the magazine! At least in the Saiga it's in the middle of gun so that empty and full doesn't matter as much. Also, "OOOoooOOOOO" on that XD manual safety. I don't like guns without them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 you need to have handled the gun to understand the balance of it. also look at how the weight is distributed and think about it. it's not a perfect design, but with some modification (auto indexing) there could be some potntial. caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Caspian. XD with Grip, trigger AND physical lock safety? Like a latch thumb operated safety? If that's true, I'm going to have to sell my xd .45 and get a new one. My only regret about the xd is that it has no thumb-latch safety. correct. all the traditional safties of the XD PLUS a frame mounted ambi low profile thumb safety. very nice. SHIT! Now I really do have to trade in the old one on a new one... /sigh. Maybe this time I'll get the 9mm subcompact instead of the .45 4".... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 I wonder if that magazine is consided a 16 round magazine in the eyes of the law, or four 4 round magazines? In my opinion its no different than when using a mag coupler to attach multiple low cap mags, but this debatable. Potentialy a great innovation for hicap-ban states. I also wonder if it has an AUTO BHO- if it does I bet it would be PDQ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XdamagedX 248 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 it gives me somewhat of a Walther wa-2000 feel from the look Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waltham_41 52 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) That was my first thought too, be something to shoot in places where hi cap detachable mags are a no no Edited February 8, 2008 by waltham_41 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GTwannabe 1 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Neat concept, but I'll bet those magazines will cost a small fortune. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) more pics about 1/3 of the way down Edited February 8, 2008 by JK-47 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidmdraege 0 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 (edited) more pics about 1/3 of the way down Is that a Hellfire trigger system I see in that picture? Never mind, I just looked at the other pics and realized it was just a Shot Show tag that is flipped up into the trigger guard. Edited February 9, 2008 by Shootin's Fun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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