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Wow, talk about something that gets real expensive, real fast! I've been reading about tactical rifles and I'm interested in buying one, but it is clear that the rifle is just the start. The scopes are as much as some of the rifles. Does anyone have a tactical rifle? What brand is yours and do you have any advice for someone thinking about buying one (yes, just to sit in the safe, but it's got to be reliable, interesting and a good value, too). It would seem to me that if it is just going to be part of my collection, I might be able to skimp a bit on the scope, whereas someone who was really going to shoot competitively with it would not want to do so.

 

WJ

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Comrade I suggest you build your own tacticool rifle start with a surplus Mauser action and build it from the ground up, I plan to do that after I finish me new AR project. You can get about every thing you need over time on the internet look for sales Midway USA often sells Mauser accessories at reasonable prices. Just my suggestion.

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Savage Tactical 308. It's an honest 1/2 MOA gun using Federal 168gr Match ammo. Harris bipod, Burris scope, B&L rings on a Leupold 1 pc base. I use it as a deer rifle for those long, across the field shots. A few years ago I dropped a deer @ ~ 600yds from the kneeling position on the first shot. Right behind the shoulder.

 

The gun cost me ~$400 when I bought it new.

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I'm also looking into getting one, so far from my research the best bang for the buck *most are expensive* is a predator customs .308 bolt action, its a savage that has been blue printed with a great stock and optic setup. very cost effective

 

http://www.onpointsupply.com/cart.php?targ...ategory_id=2592

 

no pic but its a solid gun and it does look good, go to pred's website...

 

EDIT: your gun can only shoot as good as you can, most rifles shoot accurate enough to kill someone...i mean a deer..., you may not pick the fly off the guy's ...or deer...nose but it'll work

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I'm also looking into getting one, so far from my research the best bang for the buck *most are expensive* is a predator customs .308 bolt action, its a savage that has been blue printed with a great stock and optic setup. very cost effective

 

http://www.onpointsupply.com/cart.php?targ...ategory_id=2592

 

no pic but its a solid gun and it does look good, go to pred's website...

 

EDIT: your gun can only shoot as good as you can, most rifles shoot accurate enough to kill someone...i mean a deer..., you may not pick the fly off the guy's ...or deer...nose but it'll work

 

 

Yes, I agree that the Predator .308 looks like the best buy. I talked to the guys at Predator last week. Nice guys who seem to know their stuff. I've checked into them a bit, and they get very good recommendations on the sniper forums. Their custom ARs are pretty nice, too. The other options seem to be the Savage police tactical, I can't recall the exact model number, but it comes with a nice Leopold scope and a bi pod, for less than $2,000.00 and, the Tikka tactical. Personal Security Zone had the $1,300.00 Tikka on sale three or so weeks ago for around $825.00. I almost bought one, but by the time I was ready to pull the trigger, so to speak, the sale was over. Mary Kay at Personal Security Zone is very helpful.

 

WJ

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I'm also looking into getting one, so far from my research the best bang for the buck *most are expensive* is a predator customs .308 bolt action, its a savage that has been blue printed with a great stock and optic setup. very cost effective

 

http://www.onpointsupply.com/cart.php?targ...ategory_id=2592

 

no pic but its a solid gun and it does look good, go to pred's website...

 

EDIT: your gun can only shoot as good as you can, most rifles shoot accurate enough to kill someone...i mean a deer..., you may not pick the fly off the guy's ...or deer...nose but it'll work

 

 

Yes, I agree that the Predator .308 looks like the best buy. I talked to the guys at Predator last week. Nice guys who seem to know their stuff. I've checked into them a bit, and they get very good recommendations on the sniper forums. Their custom ARs are pretty nice, too. The other options seem to be the Savage police tactical, I can't recall the exact model number, but it comes with a nice Leopold scope and a bi pod, for less than $2,000.00 and, the Tikka tactical. Personal Security Zone had the $1,300.00 Tikka on sale three or so weeks ago for around $825.00. I almost bought one, but by the time I was ready to pull the trigger, so to speak, the sale was over. Mary Kay at Personal Security Zone is very helpful.

 

WJ

 

They had a tactical Tikka and at my local scheels and when i asked about it the salesperson said that the only way that i should buy it is if i would be getting a silencer. For the same money i could get a standard sako that would put a Guaranteed 5 rounds in 1" @100 yards. compared to 3 @ 100. Just letting you know. Went back to buy tikka week later (just looked cool) and it was sold.

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If you have to have something "tactical" get a savage 10fp with either the HS precision or mcMillan stock ($600-$800). IOR 10x42 scope ($700). Harris bipod ($100). If you don't reload, you'll need to. You get far greater accuracy when you can weigh out charges, hand weigh and select bullets, fireform cases, etc etc. I have this combo, and I routinely get 3/8 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards. My total setup cost less than $1500.

 

The only things you don't get with the above setup are detachable magazines and controlled round feeding. If you want those things then consider the CZ varmint Kevlar (also a great deal, but not quite as accurate as the savage). I don't believe it is as accurate of a gun as the savage, but it has what I find to be the best package of features that you would want in a tactical rifle for the fewest $'s. I'm sure I could find a load it likes to shoot in the half moa range or better.

 

Don't skimp on the glass (I would skimp on gun before I would skimp on glass as there are so many good choices in guns and far fewer in glass). Don't sell yourself that a gun has to have a two inch thick bbl to be a performer. Don't believe you have to spend alot. For example...

 

My sako 75 in 300 weatherby with a redfield scope (old redfield, not one of the newer ones) shoots 1/4 inch 5 shot groups routinely. I've loaded up rounds for my friends mossberg ATR and it (once rebedded and given a slick trigger job) shoots 5/8 in groups. Both of these guns have pencil thin sporter bbls. Sometimes things are not always as they would seem on paper.

 

If I had only $600 to spend, I'd get a stevens 200 in a "hunting season chain store special" and put a bushnell 3200 tactical scope on it in burris xtr rings, dump it in a bell and carlson pillar bedded stock, and get the trigger done by a gunsmith. Chances are it would be a $500 gun that would shoot with $1500 guns. And, if it doesn't it's a $250 upgrade to a barrel that will most definately outshoot $2000 guns. And the beauty of it is, you can mount that bbl yourself at home with $70 worth of reusable tools. The 10x 3200 will always be worth 75% of what you pay for it, so you can upgrade glass as you go.

 

Skip the tikka, for the money involved there are better guns and beretta service sucks (as I found out when my sako needed to be rebarreled).

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Wow, talk about something that gets real expensive, real fast! I've been reading about tactical rifles and I'm interested in buying one, but it is clear that the rifle is just the start. The scopes are as much as some of the rifles. Does anyone have a tactical rifle? What brand is yours and do you have any advice for someone thinking about buying one (yes, just to sit in the safe, but it's got to be reliable, interesting and a good value, too). It would seem to me that if it is just going to be part of my collection, I might be able to skimp a bit on the scope, whereas someone who was really going to shoot competitively with it would not want to do so.

 

WJ

 

I have to say that the Remington line of LE rifles matched up with a Leupold MK4 would take care of this urge for about 2K.

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Hello,buckandaquarterquarterstaff

I'm finally taking the plunge into reloading myself.

A coworker who reloads 500-1000 50 cal. rounds a month for himself and buddies told me "if I'm just starting out, get everything for a Dillon XL650". He has two of those and a couple of turret presses for "R&D" stuff, and seems to have a bit of experience and knowledge in that field.

He also mentioned that there is no good reason to spend the dough on high-dollar cases (Lapua, Norma) if they will be run through a semi-auto, since they get pretty beat-up anyway.

Would you concurr on these recommendations?

I found the pickin's of primers pretty scarce, wanted some CCI or Federals, wound up with MagTech in 9-1/2. Should I rat-hole them and keep looking for better ones?

Have any "pet loads" for .308 that you may want to share? I have the recipes from the Lyman book, they really favor the VV N550 powder, but it's really hard to find, as well. Is there a good "all-round" powder for 168-170 grain .308 loads?

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your expertise....

 

guido2 in Houston

 

 

If you have to have something "tactical" get a savage 10fp with either the HS precision or mcMillan stock ($600-$800). IOR 10x42 scope ($700). Harris bipod ($100). If you don't reload, you'll need to. You get far greater accuracy when you can weigh out charges, hand weigh and select bullets, fireform cases, etc etc. I have this combo, and I routinely get 3/8 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards. My total setup cost less than $1500.

 

The only things you don't get with the above setup are detachable magazines and controlled round feeding. If you want those things then consider the CZ varmint Kevlar (also a great deal, but not quite as accurate as the savage). I don't believe it is as accurate of a gun as the savage, but it has what I find to be the best package of features that you would want in a tactical rifle for the fewest $'s. I'm sure I could find a load it likes to shoot in the half moa range or better.

 

Don't skimp on the glass (I would skimp on gun before I would skimp on glass as there are so many good choices in guns and far fewer in glass). Don't sell yourself that a gun has to have a two inch thick bbl to be a performer. Don't believe you have to spend alot. For example...

 

My sako 75 in 300 weatherby with a redfield scope (old redfield, not one of the newer ones) shoots 1/4 inch 5 shot groups routinely. I've loaded up rounds for my friends mossberg ATR and it (once rebedded and given a slick trigger job) shoots 5/8 in groups. Both of these guns have pencil thin sporter bbls. Sometimes things are not always as they would seem on paper.

 

If I had only $600 to spend, I'd get a stevens 200 in a "hunting season chain store special" and put a bushnell 3200 tactical scope on it in burris xtr rings, dump it in a bell and carlson pillar bedded stock, and get the trigger done by a gunsmith. Chances are it would be a $500 gun that would shoot with $1500 guns. And, if it doesn't it's a $250 upgrade to a barrel that will most definately outshoot $2000 guns. And the beauty of it is, you can mount that bbl yourself at home with $70 worth of reusable tools. The 10x 3200 will always be worth 75% of what you pay for it, so you can upgrade glass as you go.

 

Skip the tikka, for the money involved there are better guns and beretta service sucks (as I found out when my sako needed to be rebarreled).

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Savage and FN-H both make some pretty damn neat 'entry level' guns for the price. but of course, Savage triggers are better than average, but still not top of the line.

i've got a friend that shoots .25MOA out to 500m with the entry level FN PBR... i couldn't believe it tbh. he does the same with his SPR, but that's more to be expected.

 

for more advanced uses? Sako TRG, AIAW, DSR1,... but those will run 3000 - 6000$ fast.

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Hello,buckandaquarterquarterstaff

I'm finally taking the plunge into reloading myself.

A coworker who reloads 500-1000 50 cal. rounds a month for himself and buddies told me "if I'm just starting out, get everything for a Dillon XL650". He has two of those and a couple of turret presses for "R&D" stuff, and seems to have a bit of experience and knowledge in that field.

He also mentioned that there is no good reason to spend the dough on high-dollar cases (Lapua, Norma) if they will be run through a semi-auto, since they get pretty beat-up anyway.

Would you concurr on these recommendations?

I found the pickin's of primers pretty scarce, wanted some CCI or Federals, wound up with MagTech in 9-1/2. Should I rat-hole them and keep looking for better ones?

Have any "pet loads" for .308 that you may want to share? I have the recipes from the Lyman book, they really favor the VV N550 powder, but it's really hard to find, as well. Is there a good "all-round" powder for 168-170 grain .308 loads?

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your expertise....

 

guido2 in Houston

 

Well, this isn't the first time I've been part of a thread hijacking...;-)

 

If you have the ching for a Dillon xl650 then go for it. Just be sure you factor in all the shell plates etc that they ding you for before your set up is complete. In my mind that's more of a pistol or high volume rifle rig. A nice press for sure, but you don't need to spend nearly that much to do well for yourself. A progressive is a fast press, but sometimes you really don't need or want a fast press. For pistol rounds it's a sure winner, but for rifle stuff I'm not sold on using progressive presses. For the price difference between my suggestions and the 650 you can load 1500 rounds that will likely perform better than the drop measured 650 rounds. Not knocking the 650, it's awesome, but nothing beats doing it by hand.

 

Two things to keep in mind when reloading rifle cartridges; you need to lube cases (generally one at a time by hand to avoid the shoulders being dented due to excess lube), and weighed charges are almost always more accurate than measured (dropped) charges. For me, personally, if I'm planning on spending the dough to load up 100 308 rounds ($25 for 100 quality bullets, $1.50 for primers, maybe $10 for powder, plus my time) then I'll further invest the time in doing it by hand and weighing the charges out by hand on a beam scale. I also buy bullets about 500 at a time and then weigh them on a digital scale, sorting them into separate bins of bullets that are within .1 grain of each other (that in itself cut my group sizes in half).

 

If you're just starting out, you might just want to get yourself one of those lee chalenger breech lock press kits, just to load a couple rounds to see how it all comes together (it's a really cheap to learn first hand how it all works). You certainly won't regret having an extra single stage press available to yourself even if you get the dillon 650 later. I use the single stage press to neck size fireformed brass, pull bullets, and do all manner of other things that you'd have a bear of a time doing with the 650.

 

Right now my favorite saiga 308 load uses a 168 grain hornady amax (a devistating bullet and I wouldn't use the SMK as a hunting/SHTF round, though it is maybe a slightly more accurate bullet). I put it over 43.5 grains of ramshot tac (anything up to 44 grains does well). I use a cci primer due to the fact that they are less likely to go off in my priming tools (and really no other reason). I use a firm but not overfirm crimp from a lee factory crimp die. A firm crimp will size the brass around the bullet, and overfirm crimp will distort the bullet itself. When crimping I turn the round 1/8 of a turn after the first crimp and lightly crimp a second time. This prevents the brass from "ribbing" due to the crimp die. What I call ribbing is the raised bit between where the crimp "arms" squeeze together to form the crimp. If left raised up that will be the first place the brass on the neck will tear. Giving it the light second crimp after the turn pushes down the rib and evenly distributes the crimp around the bullet.

 

Ramshot tac offers really great performance in the 308, and it's clean. It seems to show less pressure at max loads than some other powders I've used. I stick with it since it also performs well with the 10fp loads (which are the exact same loads, just with fire formed brass - always fully size brass when using it in your saiga). I agree that for the saiga, any name brand brass will do. For bolt guns, I find hornady brass is the best deal by far (nosler/lapua quality for 2/3 the price)

 

If I were to suggest a nice 308 setup it would be the lee challenger press, an RCBS chargemaster 1500, lee dies, and forster brass prep equipment (case trimmers, lube pads, etc etc). The chargemaster 1500 throws accurate powder charges fast and you can use the scale for weighing bullets.

Edited by buckandaquarterquarterstaff
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another thought, i don't know how experianced you are as a shooter, if your relatively a novice, i'd start off cheap and simple, get a feel for different types of .308 or whatever cal you wanna use and get real familiar with it before you spend a ton of cash, but of course you could always start off high and just work on it from there, i guess i'm just saying you'd have a better appreciation for a great rifle once you start at the bottom? oh well, not like it matters, get what you want, custom shops usually give a great deal for the money, i wouldn't recommend going the rem. 700 SSM route, even thought its a great gun, once you have optics down, 2k is a lot when you could get a complete gun from a custom or regular dealer for about the same

 

EDIT: I have personally shot the rem 700 SSM with a $900 scope on it, great shooter, very accurate, but plain for my taste, especially for the money...

Edited by Vultite
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I have to say that the Remington line of LE rifles matched up with a Leupold MK4 would take care of this urge for about 2K.
+1 for Jammer. Good people.

Correct. Go with the choice of pros. Many of the choices listed here are simply personal preferences. Some of them are even very accurate rifles.

 

But the Remington is the standard and for good reason. It has been chosen by the majority of American Law Enforcement, state, local and federal, as well as the US Military, when they need a bolt action, short of .50 BMG anyway.

 

They have spent millions to answer this question. Why rehash it here?

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It appears that Remington is a fine choice. The one that just intrigues me is the Steyr Scout. Not really a tactical rifle, but a precision bolt action. I think out of the box the Remington, Savage, FN Boat Rifle and the Stery are the most rifle for the money.

 

Does anyone have an FN or the Steyr? The Steyrs are different looking, have some unique features and are rather hard to find, which adds to its appeal from the collecting stand point. On the other hand, that likely = no aftermarket parts, fewer options and fewer smiths who would want to work on it should it need something down the line. Is there any practical difference between the Remington and the Savage, other than personal preference?

 

For bang for the buck, hanging a descent scope on a Remington is probably the most practical way to go.

 

I might actually use this rifle to try and become a somewhat competent marksmen.

 

WJ

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They've spent millions of dollars on coffee pots and staplers too

 

The remigton is a .75 moa gun, and the savage is a half MOA gun or better and comes stock with a better trigger.

 

http://www.gunblast.com/Savage10FP-LE2.htm

 

http://www.snipercentral.com/remspsv.htm

 

As is typical, the remington can almost equal the savage's accuracy after it's restocked and warmed over.

 

The choice is yours...

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The Rem 700P isn't a bad starting point either. The HS Precision stocks they come with are pretty much good to go from the factory, and once the trigger is adjusted and action blueprinted you've got one hell of a shooter.

 

And I'll give a +1 on Predator Arms. Great guys who know there stuff, but there are some other folks out there as well who do tack drivers on a "budget." If you go the Remington route, give Randy at R&D Precision a look, but give him a call before you purchase anything. Randy pics and chooses the jobs he does these days, but if he takes your job, you'll save a decent wad of cash going through him.

http://www.rdprecision.net/

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Hello, buckandaquarterquarterstaff

Sorry about the hijacking, but thanks a brazillion for the info.

 

Dip my head in dog shit....(Yet again....)

guido2 in Houston

 

 

Hello,buckandaquarterquarterstaff

I'm finally taking the plunge into reloading myself.

A coworker who reloads 500-1000 50 cal. rounds a month for himself and buddies told me "if I'm just starting out, get everything for a Dillon XL650". He has two of those and a couple of turret presses for "R&D" stuff, and seems to have a bit of experience and knowledge in that field.

He also mentioned that there is no good reason to spend the dough on high-dollar cases (Lapua, Norma) if they will be run through a semi-auto, since they get pretty beat-up anyway.

Would you concurr on these recommendations?

I found the pickin's of primers pretty scarce, wanted some CCI or Federals, wound up with MagTech in 9-1/2. Should I rat-hole them and keep looking for better ones?

Have any "pet loads" for .308 that you may want to share? I have the recipes from the Lyman book, they really favor the VV N550 powder, but it's really hard to find, as well. Is there a good "all-round" powder for 168-170 grain .308 loads?

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your expertise....

 

guido2 in Houston

 

Well, this isn't the first time I've been part of a thread hijacking...;-)

 

If you have the ching for a Dillon xl650 then go for it. Just be sure you factor in all the shell plates etc that they ding you for before your set up is complete. In my mind that's more of a pistol or high volume rifle rig. A nice press for sure, but you don't need to spend nearly that much to do well for yourself. A progressive is a fast press, but sometimes you really don't need or want a fast press. For pistol rounds it's a sure winner, but for rifle stuff I'm not sold on using progressive presses. For the price difference between my suggestions and the 650 you can load 1500 rounds that will likely perform better than the drop measured 650 rounds. Not knocking the 650, it's awesome, but nothing beats doing it by hand.

 

Two things to keep in mind when reloading rifle cartridges; you need to lube cases (generally one at a time by hand to avoid the shoulders being dented due to excess lube), and weighed charges are almost always more accurate than measured (dropped) charges. For me, personally, if I'm planning on spending the dough to load up 100 308 rounds ($25 for 100 quality bullets, $1.50 for primers, maybe $10 for powder, plus my time) then I'll further invest the time in doing it by hand and weighing the charges out by hand on a beam scale. I also buy bullets about 500 at a time and then weigh them on a digital scale, sorting them into separate bins of bullets that are within .1 grain of each other (that in itself cut my group sizes in half).

 

If you're just starting out, you might just want to get yourself one of those lee chalenger breech lock press kits, just to load a couple rounds to see how it all comes together (it's a really cheap to learn first hand how it all works). You certainly won't regret having an extra single stage press available to yourself even if you get the dillon 650 later. I use the single stage press to neck size fireformed brass, pull bullets, and do all manner of other things that you'd have a bear of a time doing with the 650.

 

Right now my favorite saiga 308 load uses a 168 grain hornady amax (a devistating bullet and I wouldn't use the SMK as a hunting/SHTF round, though it is maybe a slightly more accurate bullet). I put it over 43.5 grains of ramshot tac (anything up to 44 grains does well). I use a cci primer due to the fact that they are less likely to go off in my priming tools (and really no other reason). I use a firm but not overfirm crimp from a lee factory crimp die. A firm crimp will size the brass around the bullet, and overfirm crimp will distort the bullet itself. When crimping I turn the round 1/8 of a turn after the first crimp and lightly crimp a second time. This prevents the brass from "ribbing" due to the crimp die. What I call ribbing is the raised bit between where the crimp "arms" squeeze together to form the crimp. If left raised up that will be the first place the brass on the neck will tear. Giving it the light second crimp after the turn pushes down the rib and evenly distributes the crimp around the bullet.

 

Ramshot tac offers really great performance in the 308, and it's clean. It seems to show less pressure at max loads than some other powders I've used. I stick with it since it also performs well with the 10fp loads (which are the exact same loads, just with fire formed brass - always fully size brass when using it in your saiga). I agree that for the saiga, any name brand brass will do. For bolt guns, I find hornady brass is the best deal by far (nosler/lapua quality for 2/3 the price)

 

If I were to suggest a nice 308 setup it would be the lee challenger press, an RCBS chargemaster 1500, lee dies, and forster brass prep equipment (case trimmers, lube pads, etc etc). The chargemaster 1500 throws accurate powder charges fast and you can use the scale for weighing bullets.

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I will add my 2 cents here... seeing as I just spent a thousand on a rifle this morning...

 

I guess my first question is why does it have to be a "Tactical" rifle? wont a SUB MOA bolt action be just as good? and if so...

 

Seriously consider a Savage model 12 F/TR. Guns and ammo did some testing with them and using factory ammo were able to get 1" groups at 600 yards out of the box! That is if you dont mind shooting a .308

 

The triggers on these are supposed to be the cat's ass... 6 oz. up to 2.5 lbs pull... I have NEVER pulled a 6 oz trigger... and I cant imagine how light it must be... I think the 2.5 lb trigger on my Savage .204 is amazing, and the 2.5 lb Timney in my 50 BMG is incredibly light... I cant comprehend 6 ounces!!! thats just insane!

 

They also make a model 12 F, which is chambered in 6.5 X 284 NORMA. Yeah, the 6.5 will yeild a slightly better ballistic cooefficient with the bullets but you dont gain any velocity, and brass is about a buck-ten each to reload, only God himself knows where you could fine pre-loaded factory ammo for it in that caliber when you are out shopping at a local gun shop. I am thinking special order, or long trips to a larger gander mountain/Bass pro shop to find it... Personally, I wanted ease of feeding, hence I went with the .308. you can get it anywhere... and I am sure that even if its not the favorite of the rifle, it will shoot *ANY* .308 decently within a hundred yards to do the job... ( although I DO NOT plan to run any steel cased wolf into that chamber...)

 

I dunno how accurate you will need to be... but for ME, 1" groups at 600 yards is as good as I would EVER NEED to shoot... obviously you will need to put a decent optic on it... and that alone could run you the cost of a rifle as well... but thats cost would be required on ANY rifle you purchase, in order to get the most from it... so thats a moot point to consider...

 

Anyways... I posted a pic or three in the rifles section... you can see what the rifle looks like... might just be the ticket for ya!!

 

In regards to my other Savage... it is a 12VLP - 12 SERIES VARMINT in .204 Ruger cal. Accu-Trigger - Infinitely adjustable from 1.5 to 6 lbs. Stainless steel action w/ oversized bolt handle. 1:12 twist, 26" SS HEAVY FLUTED, free-floating & button-rifled barrel. Internal 4-shot box magz. Drilled/tapped for mounts. Low profile, laminated stock w/ extra-wide beavertail, dual pillar bedding. weighs in at 10 lbs. L = 46.25". Those come in about every flavor you could want... and for about $700.00 would be a VERY nice shooting "entry level" rifle. Mine will shoot one hole groups at 100 yards if I do my part...

 

Can ya tell I am a savage fan?? I also have a Savage laminated/thumbhole .17 HMR too! LOL

 

 

:smoke:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello WJ;

i train police tactical riflemen;

i have and deploy a Styer SSG P69-II in 7.62x51. it is topped with a Leupold Mark 4 m3 mill dot scope.

it has a single trigger. i shoot 1/4 moa groups with match ammo.

it is not a cheep setup. rifle around $2k and scope around $1300.

its real strong point is that it will shoot .5 to .75 inch groups with any ammo, even standard mill-spec ball.

 

the departments i train use some of every kind of rifle system.

the most accurate and biggest bang for the buck seems to be the Savage tactical. most students can fire less than MOA groups. every Savage Tactical rifle that has been used by my students have grouped 1/2 MOA or better, when the shooter was doing things wright.

 

throwing in a little curve, i purchesed a flat top Bushmaster BAR 10 7.62x51 rifle about 1 yr ago.

i have found that with good glass it shoots .5 to 1 MOA Groups depending on ammo used.

it uses cheep FAL Mags and a lot of AR 15 stuff fits it.

RRA is now making these rifles and i believe they are around $1100.

it makes follow up shots easier.

unless you are planning 800 to 1000 yard shots this would be a good choice.

hope this helps

Rick

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Thank you for the information. Just about two hours ago, I picked up my new Tikka T3 Tactical .308. With some good advice from a member of this board whom I trust a great deal. (actually, there are several that I trust a great deal), I bought the Tikka after giving strong consideration to several choices. I picked up a bi-pod, some outrageously overprice ammo (probably not really overpriced, it just seemed so) and a scope. As I am a very casual shooter, I did skimp a bit on the scope. CDNN had a HAKKO (?) 4x16x40 scope on sale for $169.99, so I will be mounting it this weekend.

 

See Cobra and Jammer, I'm learning. I'm actually going to mount my own scope. I know, hard to believe. Actually, I even bought a couple of bore sighting systems. I may get to a point where I know what I'm doing when it comes to rifles.

 

WJ

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The Rem 700P isn't a bad starting point either. The HS Precision stocks they come with are pretty much good to go from the factory, and once the trigger is adjusted and action blueprinted you've got one hell of a shooter.

 

And I'll give a +1 on Predator Arms. Great guys who know there stuff, but there are some other folks out there as well who do tack drivers on a "budget." If you go the Remington route, give Randy at R&D Precision a look, but give him a call before you purchase anything. Randy pics and chooses the jobs he does these days, but if he takes your job, you'll save a decent wad of cash going through him.

http://www.rdprecision.net/

 

I like the Remmington 700 built by H&S.. A little on the high side, but I got it second hand from a buddy, so he took a hit on the resale. A good ole mossin-nagant is a great rifle on the cheaper end as well.. Just gotta do some light gunsmithing for the scope mount. I think I have a $100 in my mossin (the synthetic stock cost as much as the rifle)...

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