Saiga?

[Guest jonjettrie]

I've seen some things on the Saiga 12, but I was wondering if Saiga as a company made decent weapons? Are they reliable, how do they shoot, things like that? If anyone has any insight, that would be great.

[Guest Guest]

The saiga is actually made by IZHMASH. Check out the site:

 

http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml

 

And imported by European American Armory. This link will take you to the saiga shotgun section:

 

http://www.eaacorp.com/firearms/saiga/shotguns/index.shtml

 

 

1) Yes they make great guns (this is also where the dragunov and ak are being made).

The action is quite the same as the ak (some changes to accommodate shot shells)

and it has been around for a while. Think of the saiga as an old work hose reborn.

(can't think of how to word it any other way)

 

2)As far as how they shoot, well thats up to the shooter. Most on the forum would agree

that they shoot nice, just have to watch the recoil on regular powder loads of 00/slugs

may hurt (depends on recoil pad size of the shooter so on)

 

It may be a good idea to register so you can post in the saiga 12 part of the forum, you

will get a much faster response, and everyone is glad to help. Truly a great bunch of people

with talent and smarts.

 

Hope this helps.

 

MAC_TEK

[MAC_TEK 0]

Forgot to log in on that one

[G O B 3,516]

SAIGA=IZHMASH= GREAT GUNS!

 

G O B

[Bvamp 604]

I think everyone here would agree that after a good cleaning and workin after you get one of these guns new, they are great guns. reliable? as reliable that the sun will rise tommorrow is a fair statement I think.

[Guest WE MAY NOT AGREE...]

On politics, but the Saiga is a great gun!!!

[vjor 2]

[Gaddis 1,689]

On politics, but the Saiga is a great gun!!!

We can agree that if you're a gun owner and voted for Kerry you're a traitor to the cause though...

 

I do hope you wake up when Hillary's name is finally on the ballot.

 

And if you don't, you really don't deserve your Saiga's.

 

I'm not out trying to hurt anyone's feelings though...

[Guest AKhunter]

The problem with politics, is that I have *so many* rights, and each party only seems to care about a *few* of them. Currently, the GOP is trying to take my 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th? amendment rights, while the Dems are after my 2nd, and All of my money. Decisions, decisions... I *could* always vote libertarian, but then no one in *any* position of power would give a rat's ass what I want. What's that sticker say? "If god intended us to vote, he would've given us candidates."

 

A.

[G O B 3,516]

AKhunter- I'm with you where are the candidates?If anyone worth a crap ever ran the margin of victory would be 10% or greater. A 1 or 2% margin is statistically meaningless!

However the 2nd ammendment is the gurantor of the other 9! With 80 million gun owners in america the democrats will never get anywhere untill they toss out the Kennedy/Fienstine bunch and embrace the constitution and ALL 10 ammendments in the bill of rights.

 

G O B

[Bvamp 604]

laws are only for those that follow them....the criminals will still be criminals. why make the rest of us criminals when the crooks are already breaking the law? i am convinced on a daily basis more and more that we live in a fascist state. f you, f me, f them, its only about the richest two guys in your county.

[Smiley_Guy 2]

It's interesting to me that the out-of-power liberals want to take away your rights...

 

but for some reason your all afraid to mention the name of a certain cookbook (me too) for fear of "the men in black suits." Judge a government by its actions, not its words.

[Guest AKhunter]

It's funny, but in gun groups on the net , you always see folks sayin that the second amendment guarantees the others....I say that it ain't necessarily so. Is the idea supposed to be that once all of the other rights are gone, folks are gonna use their 2nd amendment rights to win back the others by force? Horseshit... ain't gonna happen--at least not if the typical 2nd amendment crusader's walk is anything like his talk. Judging by that, as long as folks are allowed to blow the hell outta pumpkins at the range with their gun of choice--then whatever else the gov't decides to do is just peachy. Certainly, the most vocal second amendment supporting organizations are pretty silent when it comes to civil liberties in general. I wonder how many NRA members are also ACLU members? Damn few, likely. From here, anyways, it looks like the second amendment guarantees not much, aside from a reliable source of unreflective conservative votes. Of course I support the second amendment, but it's not in near so much trouble as many of the other ones right now. The right to bear arms--in a country which seems on the way toward *not* recognizing my right to be free from the establishment of a state religion, *not* recognizing my right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizure, *not* recognizing the right of my fellow citizens to a speedy trial by jury, and *not* recognizing the right of half the population of dominion over their own bodies---is a pretty freaking hollow right. And, frankly, I don't see what the second amendment is doing to guarantee diddly, except that folks show up at the polls to perpetuate it. I'm not saying that the 2nd isn't important, just that support for it *does not equal* support for the whole bill of rights.

 

AK, Devil's Advocate

[Smiley_Guy 2]

Amen!

Preach it, Brother!

 

I think having the old Soviet Union around served to keep us honest. It gave us something to compare ourselves to, and to be proud that our system is a just and true system of rights and laws. Nowadays the CIA spys on US citizens, and we keep prisioners in Cuba specifically Because there are are no civil rights in that dictatorship.

 

I sometimes think the US body politic never really learned the lesson of WWII.

[G O B 3,516]

Our american freedoms are certenly in trouble. For the first time since the Nixon administration reporters are being jailed for not ratting out there sources. The governor of Md. has issued an executive order banning state employees from talking to the baltimore sun. Army bases are prohibiting reporters from papers that report anything the commander dosen't want to hear.The 1st. ammendment is very ill. The right to free assosiation died during the Johnson administration. It just goes on and on. BOTH parties are the means for a small group of the wealthiest and most powerfull to assert controll over the rest of us.

George Washington warned against allowing powerfull political parties to dominate the american government.

Dwight Eisenhower warned of the dangers of the military industrial complex.

We need to listen to the great men who speak truth softly and not to the little toadies( BUSH-AND HIS COUSIN KERRY) that shout down truth and belittle those who demand ACCOUNTABILITY from government!

 

G O B

[Bigfoot Wallace 0]

Let me adjust my tinfoil hat and add my two cents worth. The greatest threat to our republic is an apathetic public not Bush or Kerry or whoever.

 

Next biggest threat is a judicial system that has no checks on its power. Remember judicial review is not a power given to the supreme court but a power derived from one of their own rulings. The other two branches have checks and balances. there is no way to overturn a bad court decision. there is no way to repel a bad review in the constitution because it is not a power given in the constitution.

 

Finally the federal bureaucracy is far more dangerous then a president. Entrenched ideas in the FBI and CIA allowed 9-11 to happen, the ATF can decide at will what is and is not in their opinion a legal firearm.

 

GOB- the nail in the coffin of the 1st ammendment was the so called campaign finance reform. now politics is truly a game of the rich and their pet 527 organizations.

[Smiley_Guy 2]

Foot, I'm impressed! We've found some common ground!

 

Voter apathy and the lack of thoughtful discussion [such as we are having] is poison to democracy. That's why I really like the idea of parlementary government with proportional representation. You can have the Foil Hat Party. I can have the Screamin' Commie Party. We'll each get 2%, but we'll be REPRESENTED.

 

John Kerry's not a liberal... I'm a liberal and I should know. He panders to the lowest common denominator. Bush isn't a conservative... Do you think Goldwater or Eisenhower or even Reagan would done what Bush has? We're seeing the result of focus groups and computer aided marketing in a winner-take-all system.

 

Courts Have become political tools. And congress has responded with rediculous and unjust manditory sentancing.

 

What's the solution. I hate to say, but I don't know. I'm way more politically active than I was before but... who to support? Frankly, I think we're hosed.

[Bigfoot Wallace 0]

We are hosed but we still live in the freeist and best country in the world. after all we will not get arrested for our posts. investigated maybe but not arrested LOL

[Smiley_Guy 2]

"Freeist country in the world" tells me that you don't get out much. Try saying that to an Austrailian!

 

Travel some, visit Europe or even Canada. When you see how others live you'll lose some of the "We're #1" view that's drummed into us by television.

[G O B 3,516]

We are well and truely HOSED! But we have this internet and forums where intelligent people can exchange ideas and cut through the bullshit! George the 3rd. lost controll of the colonies when the "comitties of correspondence" allowed the free exchange of ideas,the internet is our modern equivelent.

I love this forum! Here I find some of the most intelligent people, those who think for themselves! I enjoy hearing from others that don't buy "neo-conservitive" or "ultra liberal" as acceptable philosophies for the good governance of America.

 

G O B

[Gaddis 1,689]

"Freeist country in the world" tells me that you don't get out much. Try saying that to an Austrailian!

 

Travel some, visit Europe or even Canada. When you see how others live you'll lose some of the "We're #1" view that's drummed into us by television.

Why, what's so great about Australia? As far as I know, it's just a landmass with a disproportinate mass of a$$hole liberals on it too?

 

Shite, if you want to know everything you need to know about Canada, just go to the border and "joke" around to the anal-retentive boarder guards there about all the nonexistant firearms you have stashed in your vehicle. PS. - better have a nice selection of Craftsman tools to put your car back together after that little ploy.

 

Or just have an NRA sticker attached to the outside of your vehicle somewhere...

[Bigfoot Wallace 0]

Last time i checked you could not own firearms in those countries. In those countries you are guilty until proven innocent as well.

 

This country is not perfect but YOU should look around and see those countries and their failing socialist sytems.

 

They are free, free from responsibility because their governments are their mommas!!

 

Governments do not know what is best for people. People are the best judge for their needs.

 

That being said austrailia has good food, good beer and great looking women. Can't same much for Canada except there seems to be alot of canadians who want to come here.

 

The world is no longer Euro-centric and that really pisses them off. BUT we can learn from their mistakes and become better. We did that a century ago and built the greatest country in the world and we need to do it again. LEARN from europe's mistakes. Remember your history this country was settled by people who did not or could not fit in or even survive in europe. ( I hope my mother will forgive me for not mentioning American Indians/native americans). We do best when we do not repeat Europes follies. We benefited greatly by not being a colonial power.

 

sorry it was so long.

[Smiley_Guy 2]

You saw the slow motion photography sites? You noticed they were from Germany? The EAA Witness is made in Italy where it is popular. You can own firearms (I think) anywhere in Europe. Yes, you have to get a license.

 

Canadians have guns out the a$$hole. They just don't trust hothead Americans.

 

The US has a far larger percentage of its citizens imprisoned than Europe.

 

Austrailia was peopled by european outcasts too.

 

With less than a 10% further drop in the dollar Europe will become the largest economy in the world.

 

We would do well to learn from our own mistakes (or even to admit that we had made any). No place is perfect. We could definately do better. I, for one, am trying to do my share.

 

I'll come back to: see Europe. Don't tell me what it's like unless you've lived there. Fox News and AM radio is a pi$$ poor source of information about the rest of the world.

[Gaddis 1,689]

The US has a far larger percentage of its citizens imprisoned than Europe.

 

I'll come back to:  see Europe.  Don't tell me what it's like unless you've lived there.  Fox News and AM radio is a pi$$ poor source of information about the rest of the world.

Maybe because the U.S. takes in alot of the shiteheads those countries try to get rid of? BTW - do you think your info. might be a little skewed? I don't think many European countries are that truthful about giving out accurate stats. (maybe because of all the "Socialism" that existed through out history there?).

 

And how's about being born and spending the first seven years of my life there (Army brat), along with going back to live there for five more years (does that qualify me? ). BTW - no general complaints about our European compatriots and how they are forced to live, but just don't try to make the place sound like some type of friggin Utopia it STF isn't. Go**amn, it's sure starting to sound like we have some undercover U.N. patsys on the forum here.

 

Even though we have some problems here (too many Go**amn liberals running things for one), this country is still #1 for living in. Stop whining and be greatful.

[Smiley_Guy 2]

I AM grateful:

 

That I have the right to disagree to disagree, publicly.

 

That I can vote for whoever I choose.

 

That my AK is for fun.

 

There is too much intolerance in this country, much of it fueled by the media. We each listen to the news we want to hear. Forums like this that let you and I discuss our differences are healthy and good for us and the country.

 

I haven't made a secret of my political leaning. I don't think 'Socalist' is a 'dirty word..

Edited December 12, 2004 by Smiley_Guy

[Bigfoot Wallace 0]

Socialist is not a dirty word just an old failed word. Socialism would be great if the government was not run by people. It is kind of like God and Jesus they are great but organized religion is run by people and that is where the problems start. They canadians are lossing their rights with that stupid gun registry and they hate it. BTW I don't watch fox or listen to am radio unless you count NPR which is socialist. Canadians love the US but their government does things oppisite of the US in order to look like something other than the US colony they really are. For goodnees sake their textbooks are made here!!! They get mad because the books teach canadian history from the US perspective. LOL

[Smiley_Guy 2]

Yes, many countries are loud in their opposition to American "cultural imperialism." They should just learn to market their own culture (and make their own textbooks!)

 

 

Taking a gun to Canada? Here's their law:

Canadian Definition of a Prohibited Firearm

 

* A handgun with a barrel length of 105 mm (4.14 inches) or less, or designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge (see exceptions below)*;

* A rifle or shotgun that has been changed to make it less than 660 mm (26 inches) in overall length;

* A rifle or shotgun that has been changed to make it 660 mm (26 inches) or more in overall length, with a barrel less than 457 mm (18 inches) in length;

* An automatic firearm or a converted automatic firearm;

* Any firearm prescribed under the Criminal Code regulations to be prohibited.

 

* Exceptions

Visitors can import a restricted firearm only to attend an approved shooting competition. Examples of restricted firearms are target pistols and short-barrelled, centre-fire, semi-automatic rifles or shotguns.

 

 

So go ahead... take your AK to a shooting meet.

Edited December 13, 2004 by Smiley_Guy