withergyld 0 Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 I recently picked up a S223. I already have LOTS of AR mags. I would prefer to use the plentiful mag I already have instead of stocking up on ANOTHER type of mag. I have read a few threads from last year on modding the receiver to allow the Galil M16 mag adapter to fit on the rifle. Here is one of the threads I have been reading/rereading: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=17312&hl= This conversion requires permanent mods to the rifle so I would like to get more info before I start. I have a few questions. 1. Who here has done this conversion? 2. How reliable is the rifle after conversion? 3. Has anyone had problems with the front trunion/locking lugs after performing this mod? TIA for any replies Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Messiah Jones 2 Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 I also want this info. Sorry, I have nothing to offer. Nice to see you here withergyld. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
withergyld 0 Posted February 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 I already ordered a Galil mag adapter. I should have it tomorrow or Saturday. Thanks for the welcome MJ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 I already ordered a Galil mag adapter. I should have it tomorrow or Saturday. Thanks for the welcome MJ. Can you share with us the vendor you ordered it from? Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
withergyld 0 Posted February 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 I already ordered a Galil mag adapter. I should have it tomorrow or Saturday. Thanks for the welcome MJ. Can you share with us the vendor you ordered it from? Thanks I posted the information here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=21383 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dyi 0 Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 I recently picked up a S223. I already have LOTS of AR mags. I would prefer to use the plentiful mag I already have instead of stocking up on ANOTHER type of mag. I have read a few threads from last year on modding the receiver to allow the Galil M16 mag adapter to fit on the rifle. Here is one of the threads I have been reading/rereading: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=17312&hl= This conversion requires permanent mods to the rifle so I would like to get more info before I start. I have a few questions. 1. Who here has done this conversion? 2. How reliable is the rifle after conversion? 3. Has anyone had problems with the front trunion/locking lugs after performing this mod? TIA for any replies no problemo's Quote Link to post Share on other sites
withergyld 0 Posted February 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I got my adapter yesterday. I opened up the magwell in the front and around the mag catch to allow the adapter to fit in the rifle. I made a bullet guide from a peice of 3/4 pipe. I modified one ar15 mag by removing material in a similar manner as you would when trying to fit an ak mag. (I wanted to see if it would feed right before I ground on the bottom of the lugs) Every thing worked good so I removed some material on the bottom of the lugs until a normal AR mag would lock in. I did not have to remove very much of the bottom of the lugs to allow the mag fit. I have not test fired yet but the rifle will hand cycle FMJ and HP dummy rounds. I took the adapter out and tried my factory mag. It has a little bit more play the before but it still also hand cycles FMJ and HP without issues. I have not permantly installed my homade bullet guide yet. I plan on ordering one from dinzag. My bullet guide looks pretty rough. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Messiah Jones 2 Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Any pictures yet? Don't forget to let us know how it works out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dyi 0 Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Any pictures yet? Don't forget to let us know how it works out. Messiah I have lots of pics in my original thread if you haven't seen it yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
withergyld 0 Posted February 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 (edited) I was working out of town this past week. Here is what I have done so far: I have installed a black tapco stock and grip. I put the POSP from my PSL on it for fun The hardest part was trying to grind out the "corners" above the shelf where the front of the mag rests to allow the front corners of the adapter to fit. I also opened the front of the magwell slightly to allow for the adapter to fit. Next I removed just enough material from the bottom of the lugs to allow the AR mag to seat. I ground the rear of the lugs at a 45* angle to match the top of the AR mag so I would not have to remove as much material. I made a homeade bullet guide to test feeding. It looks pretty crude. I have ordered the correct guide from from Dinzag. I will update after it arrives and I have installed it and test fired the rifle. Edited February 23, 2008 by withergyld Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maniac Jack 2 Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) I'm thinkin' about doin' this mod, but the only thing holding me back are those trunion rivets. How far/how much did you have to grind the backsides of those rivets to get the adapter to fit? It doesn't look like you had to grind much on the mag well or even the lugs for everything to hook up right. Also, how well do Orlite Galil mags fit after the mod? Gimme the scoop Edited February 26, 2008 by Maniac Jack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
withergyld 0 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 I don't have any orlites to try. The heads of the two rivets are pretty much gone. One thing I did learn from moving the trigger assembly is how strong rivets are even with the head ground off. It took several good hits from the hammer to punch out the trigger plate rivets even with the head gone. The trunion on my .223 looks like it is held to the receiver by six rivets. I have removed the heads of two of the rivets. The runion is still held in place by 4 complete rivets and two partial rivets. The stress on the rivets is a shear stress and I am confident that the trunion will hold to the receiver. The bolt locks into the trunion so the force of firing is contained by the trunion/bolt head. If this were a tilting bolt design like a FAL of SKS I would be more concerned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dyi 0 Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 My rivets haven't started to back out but as noted in my original thread, I may some day in the future install 8-32 button cap screws to those locations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Messiah Jones 2 Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 If you're worried about the rivet heads being ground off, you could put new rivets in there. You can get a complete rivet set for about $8.00, then us a modified pair of bolt-cutters to smash the new rivets in place. Grind the rivets down shorter, then smash them flush in there. I used a $10.00 pair of bolt-cutters so the monetary investment isn't much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
withergyld 0 Posted February 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 If you're worried about the rivet heads being ground off, you could put new rivets in there. You can get a complete rivet set for about $8.00, then us a modified pair of bolt-cutters to smash the new rivets in place. Grind the rivets down shorter, then smash them flush in there. I used a $10.00 pair of bolt-cutters so the monetary investment isn't much. I have a good friend that is a licensed manufacturer that builds Aks. I am certain he could re-rivet it for me for next to nothing if they do come loose. I do not think they will as the trunion still has four other good rivets in it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dyi 0 Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 (edited) If you're worried about the rivet heads being ground off, you could put new rivets in there. You can get a complete rivet set for about $8.00, then us a modified pair of bolt-cutters to smash the new rivets in place. Grind the rivets down shorter, then smash them flush in there. I used a $10.00 pair of bolt-cutters so the monetary investment isn't much. I don't think that will do anything better than the factory rivets. The factory rivet shank is expanded just as much as a replacement would be. And I'm not saying this to get out of buying the proper tools. I already have all of them. Edited February 27, 2008 by dyi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
withergyld 0 Posted March 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 IT WORKS!!!!! I got the bullet guide from Dinzag yesterday. When I installed it last night the drill bit moved a little. It made the bullet guide so that one side was higher then the other. One side of the mag would feed but not the other. The bullets on the high side would hit the guide. This was my fault not Dinzag's guide. I used a torch and some brazing rod to add material to the bottom edge of the bullet guide. I then shaped it with a sanding drum on my Dremmel. After a few tries I got it to hand cycle dummy rounds perfectly. I took it to the range and fired three 30 round AR mags though it with zero issues. I love this rifle! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) Can one of you guys that have done this post some close up's of a side view at the mag adapter? From what I can see in this picture, more material was removed from the front sides of the magwell on the receiver to allow the the adapter to sit down past the small lip. What I'm looking at is that the housing for the "push to drop" seems to be parallel with the bottom of the receiver. If that's true, couldn't I just mill off the area of the adapter from the back of the mag drop housing, forword, on the sides of the adapter to allow it to fit in a squared up magwell hole on the bottom of the receiver? Also, are you all cutting across the entire diameter of the back rivits, or just part of the "diameter" (not depth)? What I'm thinking about doing is taking some material off the sides of the adapter(very little), rather than cutting deeper into the magwell area on the receiver and trunion. This is the view I'm looking for, but want a little more detail where the adapter meets the receiver. It looks like you have to sink the front of the adapter up inside the receiver to make up for the lack of front angle found on the Galil. The area I'd like to cut flush on the adapter is in the yellow triangle(pic #2), that way all I have to do is square up the magwell opening (see picture #3). Also, right now I'm only half way across the rivit face, I think I'm looking at another .030 to clear. Edited March 11, 2008 by 6500rpm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
55645 1 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I had the same idea as you did but didnt want to mess up the adapter and chickend out and just opend up the sides of the receiver. My conversion is just missing a bullet guide and galil handguard. Here are my pics Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 (edited) Thanks 55645, that's the view I was looking for. I thought the top of the mag drop housing was parallel with the receiver, just wanted to make sure. I makes a good reference point. I have a mill, so taking a light skim cut across that triangular section won't be a problem and I figure with the availability of AR mags, this is going to be a propriatory thing with this build. I did the same thing to my Galil and sold off all my other mags. The more of you that I see doing this to your Saiga, the better I feel about it. Anyone else have pics or info, keep them coming, the more info the better..... Update- received an email from Stanley 3/12-magwell to ship out on 3/13 (he was out of town). Edited March 13, 2008 by 6500rpm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinC 0 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Thanks 55645, that's the view I was looking for. I thought the top of the mag drop housing was parallel with the receiver, just wanted to make sure. I makes a good reference point. I have a mill, so taking a light skim cut across that triangular section won't be a problem and I figure with the availability of AR mags, this is going to be a propriatory thing with this build. I did the same thing to my Galil and sold off all my other mags. The more of you that I see doing this to your Saiga, the better I feel about it. Anyone else have pics or info, keep them coming, the more info the better..... Update- received an email from Stanley 3/12-magwell to ship out on 3/13 (he was out of town). I'm new to this forum, and have been reading some old & new posts and want to find two AR15 mag adaptors for my 223. I have alot of AR MAGS. It would really be nice to use one type of mag. Called Stanley3 & no reply yet. Anyone know who might of some? Thanks everyone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
okie shooter 0 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Might have to try this now, you guys are giving me good ideas. I picked up some of the unfinished mag adaptors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 AK-MAN, just keep running the usual haunts (gunbroker,WTB threads, Etc.). ORF had a shit load at a great price but there all gone now, BUT, Todd has mentioned manufacturing some of his own-that could take a while though, but prossible good news down the line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MD_Willington 11 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 I'd like to see one in polymer first, they look pretty simple, and I like your idea of milling the triangular part 6500rpm.. Once someone measures one up, I wonder what mods would be needed to tweak the adaptor to fit plastic mini-14 magazines... I have seen mini 14 adaptors for bolt action rifles... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maniac Jack 2 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Ya, I was thinking about just modding the adapter to fit an un-cut magwell. I figure, since an AR mag fits almost perfectly into an AK mag well, minus an adapter, that I could just weld up that gap in the front of the adapter and grind on it until it fits. As long as it locks in and an AR mag locks into that, it wouldn't matter if the whole top of the adapter was removed. Good idea? Do-able, or what? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ArcFault 4 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Might have to try this now, you guys are giving me good ideas. I picked up some of the unfinished mag adaptors. Where and when? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ArcFault 4 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Ya, I was thinking about just modding the adapter to fit an un-cut magwell. I figure, since an AR mag fits almost perfectly into an AK mag well, minus an adapter, that I could just weld up that gap in the front of the adapter and grind on it until it fits. As long as it locks in and an AR mag locks into that, it wouldn't matter if the whole top of the adapter was removed. Good idea? Do-able, or what? I'm with ya, I was sort of wondering the same thing. I would be reluctant to start hacking into one of these things, except to do what 6500 was planning, but perhaps a Saiga specific magwell could be fabbed up. Something that requires minimal mods to the gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jgillaspy 24 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Might have to try this now, you guys are giving me good ideas. I picked up some of the unfinished mag adaptors. Where and when? Thanks. +1 Unfinished, like "in the white"? Available for resale? Inquiring minds want to know. . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinC 0 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Might have to try this now, you guys are giving me good ideas. I picked up some of the unfinished mag adaptors. ARC- can I ask you where you got them from? If you want to sell 1 or 2 of them. I"m Looking for 2 adaptors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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