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The "best" AK


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When SHTF and you had to dive for cover, praying that unknown fire and shrapnel doesn't rip you apart. You catch your breath, pray, and sprint for cover. You move as fast as you can between covered points till you get to your weapons cache. Thankfully, you've acquired every AK known to man. But incoming bad guys don't give you time to think, let alone hit the light switch. Instinctively, your hand grabs what it feels first. It's an AK, after all, that's all you have. You slap in a mag, rack it, and wait.

 

You hear it coming, footsteps down the hall, and then a spray of gunfire. You give it a sec and then drop through their X and open fire. Only after it's over did you realize that you grabbed a specific type of AK. And, it was the best one. It worked. It didn't jam. You're alive. You wipe the sweat off and rub the gunsmoke out of your eyes. You're shaking as you walk back to your cache. Soon, more bad guys will come. This time, you'll have everything ready.

 

The best AK in a crisis is whatever you happened to grab, find, fish out of the mudhole. If you make it through the crisis, then opinions on brand and type and configuration can play a more specific role I suppose.

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The Saiga weapons that I currently have are a S-12 I restored myself and a SGL21, (7.62x39 Legion rifle). I'd trust my life to either. I don't think I'd have any trouble differentiating between the

I disagree with the factual accuracy of your post.

I'll dispute it.   *Nicer Finish - Bluing is not better than park and paint. *Thicker receiver - This is arguable, but I take the opposite position. I want my rifle to be as light as possible, and

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I honestly thought you were going to say something along the lines of "crap I just stuck a 47 mag into a 74".. or something along that line (yeah I know it's not entirely possible, but with my collection of AK's a random mag and a random AK probably wouldnt work out since thanks to saiga I have 12 gauge, .308, 7.62, and 5.45) But your right.. the AK is going to perform and take that bastard out.

 

I am half contemplating just saying strait up this is one of the more pointless threads to go for four pages.. AK's arn't known for being the "best" so much as "the one that won't fail you", to me there isn't enough difference in them that should the end of the world come and someone issues me one I'm going to bitch and ask for a different brand.

 

Having said that, I have a lancaster and it's my favorite- but not worth debating or comparing to other ak's that do their job flawlessly. Owning it more puts me on a level of "ok I have one of the best, and even though I love it, this other shit does just as well".

 

edit: after typing this I couldn't help but chuckle about the fact that what I said is in no way true for AR's.. End times come, someone hands me an AR.. I'm going to look at them funny and ask if it works.

Edited by volkov
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The Saiga weapons that I currently have are a S-12 I restored myself and a SGL21, (7.62x39 Legion rifle). I'd trust my life to either. I don't think I'd have any trouble differentiating between the mags, even in the dark. :D

 

The problem I have with Lancaster is their inconsistent quality. The 3060 "Russian Red" I ordered was the worst-built AK I've ever (briefly) owned. I also prefer having a new Russian factory-built rifle as opposed to a rifle built from a parts kit on a US receiver.

 

Come TEOTWAWKI I wouldn't care who the hell built it, so long as I had a Kalashnikov type weapon at hand.

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I agree with revrendfranz

 

or why not take all the good aftermarket parts and put them into one well made rifle, and since the ak has influenced other designs why not take something from the AR book and copy the barrel lock nut and aply it to our new rifle

 

plus the 7.62 round has the accuracy of a 3030 but what if the the round had more gas behind it by a adjustable gas system? hmm could that lead to better accuracy? not such violent recoil? and some thing I was wondering what if you tightend up the rifle just a little bit, not enough to mess with reliability but so that the bolt wouldnt have to strap a 2x4 to its a$$ to function? we as a fourm could even commission one of the great ak builders on here to put it together for us, and since we would mostly be useing aftermarket parts we wouldnt be steping on toes

Edited by Blazer76
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I think the Chinese ones are the best. I think they are even beter then the Russian made ones. The Finnish and Yugoslovian are the only ones that rival it in quality. The Finns even buy Chinese AK's for their second line troops. By the way, this looks like a great forum!

*Nicer Finish

*Thicker reciever

*thicker barrel

*better trigger.

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I think the Chinese ones are the best. I think they are even beter then the Russian made ones. The Finnish and Yugoslovian are the only ones that rival it in quality. The Finns even buy Chinese AK's for their second line troops. By the way, this looks like a great forum!

*Nicer Finish

*Thicker reciever

*thicker barrel

*better trigger.

 

I disagree with the factual accuracy of your post.

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I think the Chinese ones are the best. I think they are even beter then the Russian made ones. The Finnish and Yugoslovian are the only ones that rival it in quality. The Finns even buy Chinese AK's for their second line troops. By the way, this looks like a great forum!

*Nicer Finish

*Thicker reciever

*thicker barrel

*better trigger.

 

I disagree with the factual accuracy of your post.

Dispute it then.

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assuming they all pull the trigger and go bang 100% of the time.. there are still factors that can distingush. Ones that come to mind is durability/longevity, weight, ease of modification, ease of dissassembly, trigger pull, recoil, accuracy, comfort..

 

For example lets say two AK's

 

AK 1: 100% reliable as far as cycling and firing

Everything is welded together, can't really be modified, the gas tube release lever is so tough to move it's a pain to clean, and the safety is so stiff that getting it on means it might not come off safe without a hammer. it's overgassed and kicks like a mule plus wears more quickly, it's reciever is thin and may give out someday, a bad muzzle break is welded on, the trigger has a heavy pull and is shaped badly so its uncomfortable to fire

 

AK 2: 100% reliable as far as cycling and firing

Easily modified- gas block and FSB are held on by pins which although sturdy can be removed relatively easily. Both the safety and the gas block release lever stick well enough, but are easily moved with your bare hands and appropriate preasure. It's appropriately gassed and kicks like your average AK. Reciever is standard strength/weight. Muzzle is threaded and allows for a variety of options, trigger pull is light and comfortable

 

Basically thats a drastic difference in two 100% reliable AK's. These arn't any particular aks but the bad one (ak1) is sort of a compiliation of crap stuff I've seen on AKs all combined to show how a trusty AK can still suck considerably more than a better made one.

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assuming they all pull the trigger and go bang 100% of the time.. there are still factors that can distingush. Ones that come to mind is durability/longevity, weight, ease of modification, ease of dissassembly, trigger pull, recoil, accuracy, comfort..

I'd like to quantify the above with "let's refer to the factory spec 7.62x39 Kalashnikov". Once you start talking about other calibers/build methods, things get way different.

 

1) A weld build is an abomination, and should never, ever be brought into a discussion like this.

2) the only factors that differ among built-to-spec AKs in the above list is "weight". They all modify the same, and they all assemble the same.

 

Recoil is subjective.

Accuracy is subjective.

Comfort? ARE YOU KIDDING?

 

The bottom line is: There is no "best" AK. They all go bang when you pull the trigger, and they all have the same manual of arms. Sure, some look like hammered dog1.gifpoop.gif, but looks are not what matters in a Kalashnikov (they're not hand-built Purdeys) - function is what matters, and all built-to-spec AKs certainly do function reliably.

 

You'll get folks swearing up and down that their $1200 AK is "the best", but they only tell us that because they don't want to recognize that they could have paid $350 and gotten the same functionality (or $450 for a refinish to make the $350 rifle "pretty").

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assuming they all pull the trigger and go bang 100% of the time.. there are still factors that can distingush. Ones that come to mind is durability/longevity, weight, ease of modification, ease of dissassembly, trigger pull, recoil, accuracy, comfort..

I'd like to quantify the above with "let's refer to the factory spec 7.62x39 Kalashnikov". Once you start talking about other calibers/build methods, things get way different.

 

1) A weld build is an abomination, and should never, ever be brought into a discussion like this.

2) the only factors that differ among built-to-spec AKs in the above list is "weight". They all modify the same, and they all assemble the same.

 

Recoil is subjective.

Accuracy is subjective.

Comfort? ARE YOU KIDDING?

 

The bottom line is: There is no "best" AK. They all go bang when you pull the trigger, and they all have the same manual of arms. Sure, some look like hammered dog1.gifpoop.gif, but looks are not what matters in a Kalashnikov (they're not hand-built Purdeys) - function is what matters, and all built-to-spec AKs certainly do function reliably.

 

You'll get folks swearing up and down that their $1200 AK is "the best", but they only tell us that because they don't want to recognize that they could have paid $350 and gotten the same functionality (or $450 for a refinish to make the $350 rifle "pretty").

some people want more than the basic AK function. Think that's what half the customization on this site is about, and sure, it doesn't make the basic function "better" you certainly can make the gun itself better.. Even something as irrelevant as comfort improved to a degree does make it better.. regardless of if it's neccesary. And by comfort I include things such as garbage triggers or handguards that melt onto your fingers or don't properly shield the heat- which can make the AK- although still functional, VERY dificult to use.. so yes comfort is important, over the factory spec, perhaps not, but not all AK's are factory spec, and there are extremes even on AK that are unacceptable.. I don't like shooting a melting AK and I prefer when my AK is not on fire, especially in a SHTF scenario, given all other things being equal, I would consider a more comfortable AK that doesn't burn th shit out of me as superior. The same goes for the other "subjective" qualities I listed.. An improvement is an improvement regardless of whether or not it's 100% neccesary and by definition of improvement does make an AK better, hence why you pay more.

 

I'm not arguing that it's always worth it, but I'm saying that just because two aks function 100% of the time does not make them equal.

 

Also a weld build is still a build, and the question "Quick question... What makes an AK good or better than the rest? I've never had an AK that didn't do what its supposed to do (shoot a bullet when I pull the trigger)." was asked, so yes, some ak's are better than the rest, as you said, a weld build is an abomination, but it does exist, and can be as functional as a factory ak.

 

As to whether an AK needs to be improved over the factory spec.. I'm sure improvements could be made, are they neccesary.. not really, but nonetheless a better AK is always possible, and I reckon some of those 1200$ AK's are better than factory... Neccesary or worth it? maybe not.. but better.. yes.

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assuming they all pull the trigger and go bang 100% of the time.. there are still factors that can distingush. Ones that come to mind is durability/longevity, weight, ease of modification, ease of dissassembly, trigger pull, recoil, accuracy, comfort..

I'd like to quantify the above with "let's refer to the factory spec 7.62x39 Kalashnikov". Once you start talking about other calibers/build methods, things get way different.

 

1) A weld build is an abomination, and should never, ever be brought into a discussion like this.

2) the only factors that differ among built-to-spec AKs in the above list is "weight". They all modify the same, and they all assemble the same.

 

Recoil is subjective.

Accuracy is subjective.

Comfort? ARE YOU KIDDING?

 

The bottom line is: There is no "best" AK. They all go bang when you pull the trigger, and they all have the same manual of arms. Sure, some look like hammered dog1.gifpoop.gif, but looks are not what matters in a Kalashnikov (they're not hand-built Purdeys) - function is what matters, and all built-to-spec AKs certainly do function reliably.

 

You'll get folks swearing up and down that their $1200 AK is "the best", but they only tell us that because they don't want to recognize that they could have paid $350 and gotten the same functionality (or $450 for a refinish to make the $350 rifle "pretty").

some people want more than the basic AK function. Think that's what half the customization on this site is about, and sure, it doesn't make the basic function "better" you certainly can make the gun itself better.. Even something as irrelevant as comfort improved to a degree does make it better.. regardless of if it's neccesary. And by comfort I include things such as garbage triggers or handguards that melt onto your fingers or don't properly shield the heat- which can make the AK- although still functional, VERY dificult to use.. so yes comfort is important, over the factory spec, perhaps not, but not all AK's are factory spec, and there are extremes even on AK that are unacceptable.. I don't like shooting a melting AK and I prefer when my AK is not on fire, especially in a SHTF scenario, given all other things being equal, I would consider a more comfortable AK that doesn't burn th shit out of me as superior. The same goes for the other "subjective" qualities I listed.. An improvement is an improvement regardless of whether or not it's 100% neccesary and by definition of improvement does make an AK better, hence why you pay more.

 

I'm not arguing that it's always worth it, but I'm saying that just because two aks function 100% of the time does not make them equal.

 

Also a weld build is still a build, and the question "Quick question... What makes an AK good or better than the rest? I've never had an AK that didn't do what its supposed to do (shoot a bullet when I pull the trigger)." was asked, so yes, some ak's are better than the rest, as you said, a weld build is an abomination, but it does exist, and can be as functional as a factory ak.

 

As to whether an AK needs to be improved over the factory spec.. I'm sure improvements could be made, are they neccesary.. not really, but nonetheless a better AK is always possible, and I reckon some of those 1200$ AK's are better than factory... Neccesary or worth it? maybe not.. but better.. yes.

I'm not talking about some shyster-built AK that Malcom Mall-Ninja has outfitted with a stroll through the Tapco catalog - I'm talking factory spec AKs (factory or rebuilds).

 

Burning hand guards? You can set the hand guards on fire on a lot of military rifles. M16 gas tubes melt under intense fire. If you're in the situation where your hand guards are catching fire, I suspect you've brought the wrong gun to the party.

 

Seems to me that your definition of "comfort" is a self-imposed condition (i.e. buying and installing poop.gif parts).

 

 

 

This thread becomes meaningless if we're gonna consider every possible permutation of the Kalashnikov in it.

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I was addressing a simple question.. are some better than others provided they all function. The answer is yes.. Again weld builds can function..

 

But if you want to go to factory spec, I would still say that an AK that doesn't burst into flames after heavy fire is preferable to one that does regardless of what most rifles do or whats military spec.. Improvements exist and some are better than others.. Simple. I'm not addressing the whole thread so much as one question that was asked- some well functioning/cycling AK's are better than others. Improvements to exist to make a gun more durable or easier to use.. and while not neccesary or even desired, it does make the gun better.

 

And yes your right, if two ak's were offered to me and one was heat proof by some magic or tech or whatever, or easier to field strip and all other qualities held even- I would consider it better.

 

this is becoming a rather large debate over something inherently simple..

Some AK's are better than others, hell some are better than factory. The fact that improvements are unncesary in the average situation does not negate the fact that there are improvements which bring some extra potential to a gun.

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Hi guys.

 

Is anyone aware of a comparison chart that shows various AKs and what each one has or does not have in terms of features? Things like chromed bores, carriers, muzzle breaks, heat shields, etc. While there's probably no such thing as "the perfect AK", such a chart would (I think) help compare and contrast the features and specs we might consider when finding the right AK for our intended purpose.

 

I agree that we should probably stick to factory spec AKs or else it opens up almost infinite variables that largely come down to personal preference. After market parts are fine, but IMO shouldn't really be part of this particular discussion.

 

 

Corbin

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First I think $800 is a deal on a Vepr. Second I in no way would prefer any Chinese AK I've seen to a Russian Vepr. As to "thicker receiver" my NHM90 receiver is 1.5mm, my Vepr is 1.6mm. These are some of the thicker receivers in the AK world. I will not say that a thicker AK is a better AK. The last count on my AK rifles was eleven. The top three: Galil, Vepr, and Arsenal Bulgaria milled (in that order).

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First I think $800 is a deal on a Vepr. Second I in no way would prefer any Chinese AK I've seen to a Russian Vepr. As to "thicker receiver" my NHM90 receiver is 1.5mm, my Vepr is 1.6mm. These are some of the thicker receivers in the AK world. I will not say that a thicker AK is a better AK. The last count on my AK rifles was eleven. The top three: Galil, Vepr, and Arsenal Bulgaria milled (in that order).

Do you really think Chicom AK's are that bad?

Edited by Ermac
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I think the Chinese ones are the best. I think they are even beter then the Russian made ones. The Finnish and Yugoslovian are the only ones that rival it in quality. The Finns even buy Chinese AK's for their second line troops. By the way, this looks like a great forum!

*Nicer Finish

*Thicker reciever

*thicker barrel

*better trigger.

 

I disagree with the factual accuracy of your post.

Dispute it then.

 

I'll dispute it.

 

*Nicer Finish - Bluing is not better than park and paint.

*Thicker receiver - This is arguable, but I take the opposite position. I want my rifle to be as light as possible, and a 1mm receiver has proven to be more than sufficient. Upping that to 1.5mm or 1.6mm adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the weapon.

*thicker barrel - See my response to "*Thicker receiver".

*better trigger - This is a completely moot point since there are several excellent and inexpensive US-made trigger groups than one can easily install in any AK-pattern rifle.

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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I think the Chinese ones are the best. I think they are even beter then the Russian made ones. The Finnish and Yugoslovian are the only ones that rival it in quality. The Finns even buy Chinese AK's for their second line troops. By the way, this looks like a great forum!

*Nicer Finish

*Thicker reciever

*thicker barrel

*better trigger.

 

I disagree with the factual accuracy of your post.

Dispute it then.

 

I'll dispute it.

 

*Nicer Finish - Bluing is not better than park and paint.

*Thicker receiver - This is arguable, but I take the opposite position. I want my rifle to be as light as possible, and a 1mm receiver has proven to be more than sufficient. Upping that to 1.5mm or 1.6mm adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the weapon.

*thicker barrel - See my response to "*Thicker receiver".

*better trigger - This is a completely moot point since there are several excellent and inexpensive US-made trigger groups than one can easily install in any AK-pattern rifle.

It looks nicer I suppose. I've had parked finishes rust easily where the blued guns next them never got any rust on them. Maybe the difference between a 1.5mm might be only found if they were fully automatc. A thicker barrel is nice for keeping the barrel cooler. The accuracy might be a bit better too. I could get into a lot of exceptions if I bring in aftermarket parts in the equasion. I suppose you would think the VEPR is the worst AK because it has an even thicker reciever and barrel then a Chinese one.

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again going to say..

Just because you think a certain standard/improvement isn't neccesary doesn't mean it isn't better than the alternative.. and therefore a better AK, and just because something is "sufficient" doesn't mean nothing can be better

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I think the Chinese ones are the best. I think they are even beter then the Russian made ones. The Finnish and Yugoslovian are the only ones that rival it in quality. The Finns even buy Chinese AK's for their second line troops. By the way, this looks like a great forum!

*Nicer Finish

*Thicker reciever

*thicker barrel

*better trigger.

 

I disagree with the factual accuracy of your post.

Dispute it then.

 

I'll dispute it.

 

*Nicer Finish - Bluing is not better than park and paint.

*Thicker receiver - This is arguable, but I take the opposite position. I want my rifle to be as light as possible, and a 1mm receiver has proven to be more than sufficient. Upping that to 1.5mm or 1.6mm adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the weapon.

*thicker barrel - See my response to "*Thicker receiver".

*better trigger - This is a completely moot point since there are several excellent and inexpensive US-made trigger groups than one can easily install in any AK-pattern rifle.

 

You hit the nail on the head. The Chinese stuff is essentially AKM parts. The Chinese factories are not producing stuff up to the 100-series quality yet. Thicker receivers is not what I was disputing (Post-A is correct that doesn't make a difference, if it were so, than the Russian Milled Type 2 stuff would be considered the "Best AK").

What I was disputing was that the Fins are buying Chinese rifles in mass. I have not seen any pictures of Finnish Infantry units outfitted with Chinese weapons.

 

As for the barrel, Ermac do you know the machinery used by Izhmash and how it differentiates from Polytech?

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I think the Chinese ones are the best. I think they are even beter then the Russian made ones. The Finnish and Yugoslovian are the only ones that rival it in quality. The Finns even buy Chinese AK's for their second line troops. By the way, this looks like a great forum!

*Nicer Finish

*Thicker reciever

*thicker barrel

*better trigger.

 

I disagree with the factual accuracy of your post.

Dispute it then.

 

I'll dispute it.

 

*Nicer Finish - Bluing is not better than park and paint.

*Thicker receiver - This is arguable, but I take the opposite position. I want my rifle to be as light as possible, and a 1mm receiver has proven to be more than sufficient. Upping that to 1.5mm or 1.6mm adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the weapon.

*thicker barrel - See my response to "*Thicker receiver".

*better trigger - This is a completely moot point since there are several excellent and inexpensive US-made trigger groups than one can easily install in any AK-pattern rifle.

It looks nicer I suppose. I've had parked finishes rust easily where the blued guns next them never got any rust on them. Maybe the difference between a 1.5mm might be only found if they were fully automatc. A thicker barrel is nice for keeping the barrel cooler. The accuracy might be a bit better too. I could get into a lot of exceptions if I bring in aftermarket parts in the equasion. I suppose you would think the VEPR is the worst AK because it has an even thicker reciever and barrel then a Chinese one.

No, VEPRs are quite nice. I'd like to acquire one myself at some point, (not in the budget atm). Chinese AKs are also excellent rifles. I never said that I didn't like them. What I dispute is your assertion that they are "the best". That I do not agree with, for the reasons I've already stated. Imo, "the best" AKs are those that are currently being produced, (AK-100 series), at Izhmash under M. Kalashnikov's supervision.

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again going to say..

Just because you think a certain standard/improvement isn't neccesary doesn't mean it isn't better than the alternative.. and therefore a better AK, and just because something is "sufficient" doesn't mean nothing can be better

 

Who are you addressing this to? Me? A thicker stamped receiver is not necessarily an improvement. Any marginal advantage it might have over the current Russian military standard 1mm receiver is not worth the greatly increased weight.

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I think the Chinese ones are the best. I think they are even beter then the Russian made ones. The Finnish and Yugoslovian are the only ones that rival it in quality. The Finns even buy Chinese AK's for their second line troops. By the way, this looks like a great forum!

*Nicer Finish

*Thicker reciever

*thicker barrel

*better trigger.

 

I disagree with the factual accuracy of your post.

Dispute it then.

 

I'll dispute it.

 

*Nicer Finish - Bluing is not better than park and paint.

*Thicker receiver - This is arguable, but I take the opposite position. I want my rifle to be as light as possible, and a 1mm receiver has proven to be more than sufficient. Upping that to 1.5mm or 1.6mm adds a lot of unnecessary weight to the weapon.

*thicker barrel - See my response to "*Thicker receiver".

*better trigger - This is a completely moot point since there are several excellent and inexpensive US-made trigger groups than one can easily install in any AK-pattern rifle.

 

You hit the nail on the head. The Chinese stuff is essentially AKM parts. The Chinese factories are not producing stuff up to the 100-series quality yet. Thicker receivers is not what I was disputing (Post-A is correct that doesn't make a difference, if it were so, than the Russian Milled Type 2 stuff would be considered the "Best AK").

What I was disputing was that the Fins are buying Chinese rifles in mass. I have not seen any pictures of Finnish Infantry units outfitted with Chinese weapons.

 

As for the barrel, Ermac do you know the machinery used by Izhmash and how it differentiates from Polytech?

There are no AKM parts on Chinese AK's. The Chinese AK's are quite literaly stamped AK-47's. They have the heavier barrel of an AK-47,vented gas tube,double hooked disconnector,smooth AK-47 dust cover, and the sights adjust to 800m's, opposed to 1000 of the AKM. If you think I'm full of bullshit, read this

http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/00042_en.dsp

 

Define "100-series quality"

Edited by Ermac
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Do I really think Chinese AKs are that bad? Absolutely not. Just because I choose a Vepr over one does not mean I don't think they are a quality AK. I think very highly of my NHM90, I personally would pick it over a Saiga. And, I don't see anything wrong with Saigas (I have two). We are speaking of our preference in weapons. These I have a lot of experience with, and currently own/ shoot.

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Chinese AKs are quite varied. Thanks to ignorant statist politicians, most of those available don't have threaded barrels or bayo lugs. Some people don't care about those features. I do. So, I generally prefer Russian or Bulgarian rifles, (new production) to post-ban Chinese rifles.

 

Chinese AKs that have the spike bayonet are particularly cool. :super:

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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