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The "best" AK


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The Saiga weapons that I currently have are a S-12 I restored myself and a SGL21, (7.62x39 Legion rifle). I'd trust my life to either. I don't think I'd have any trouble differentiating between the

I disagree with the factual accuracy of your post.

I'll dispute it.   *Nicer Finish - Bluing is not better than park and paint. *Thicker receiver - This is arguable, but I take the opposite position. I want my rifle to be as light as possible, and

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Valmet is #1 in my book. I had a couple of original Galil's and they are nice guns, but heavy and not as accurate as the Valmet. I had a sizable collection of Valmets at one time, but only kept one....a .223 folder that averages 1.5" groups and occasionally will toss out a Sub-MOA group. (Pic - 3rd from the right) About 8 years ago, I took this gun to a CMP match and kicked everyone's ass with it. Out of about 40 shooters, that gun ended up #1 by a big margin.

 

Here's a small portion of my past collection.

 

Edited to add - L to R in the pic.

76 .308 Wood Stock

76 .308 Folder

76 .308 Plastic Stock (POS)

76 .308 Folder

62 x39 Fixed Tube

76 .223 Wood Stock

76 .223 Folder (The one that I kept)

78 .308 Wood

71 .223 Plastic Stock (POS)

 

Collection-1.jpg

this is to the whole room i just didnt know how to post. but i just got a romanian wasr 10 and heard bad things on it. i was wondering if any one knows the best type of ak to get? the brand, the type, and anything else yall can tell me. cause i want the most reliable one out there. thanks

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Yeah...the "best AK" subject has been stabbed in the heart more times than Count Dracula. Sorry for the smart-ass answer. The question simply has no answer. Different folks have different reasons for their opinions as to what qualifies as "best". I think the answer of the question lies in what is best for you and your intended purposes. Cost, construction (milled, stamped. fixed stock, underfolder...ect), investment, shooter, and on and on. There is an old saying which states "you get what you pay for" which is a good rule of thumb. However, an AK, or AKM, is a mechanical device...built by man...and is prone to material and structural failure. Fit and finish does play a large part on reliability and that is where cost does come into play both in new products and country of origin. You can purchase the most expensive milled receiver firearm out there and still have reliability problems. Your Romanian may not be anywhere near as nicely fit and finished as say an Arsenal firearm but run rings around it in the reliability department. It would take a pretty sorry example of the ak/akm design that could not be made to "BANG" everytime you pull the trigger. Romanian AKM's are getting trashed pretty bad right now. I have owned (2). Still own (1). I have never had a jam with either one of the Romanian AKMs. Remember the North Hollywood Bank Robbery? The bad guys used Romanian AKMs and the firearms ran without a hitch. Take your firearm out and get to know it. If you like it keep it...if not then find something you like better. I have (2) Yugo Underfolders that are very nice. I absolutely love VEPRs. I'm sure I would feel the same way about many of the high end AK/AKM firearms from the other high end (expensive) manufacturers. There are no absolutes on this subject. You will find some who will tell you that their AK/AKM type is the best and that all others are junk. Take that with a grain of salt. Those type are usually on some sort of mental medication or in need of it. Boy...I sure typed a lot and never gave you an answer...okay I''ll answer...The nicest AK/AKM I ever handled and most want to add to my collection is a VEPR!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Idk are we counting original Russian manufacture? What about SVD's and such? I vote the original Dragunov. Cool as hell gun.

 

If not, I'd be inclined to go with a Polish Tantal, though I can't really vouch for 5.45x.39. I need something with a little more stopping power to be happy...

 

So then we have the Saiga .308. Hmmm... you have the same (almost) power as the SVD, and the convertability into a battle rifle. Of course you have to convert to a pistol grip, but run 20 round magazines and I think I'm in heaven. It's a mud gun with a real man's caliber that will always function and can actually reach out and touch things at range. Pretty awesome in my books lol.

 

So final answer, Saiga .308 converted to pistol grip. Production guns, Dragunov and all like SVD designs and the Polish Tantal.

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So, I was wondering, what is considered as the "best" production AK worldwide. price, legality and whatnot are not the issue. Any member of the AK family goes, although please don't go as far as naming the Galil. Preference goes out to 7.62x39mm, but other calibres are acceptable if you wish to nominate one such as the Beryl or whatnot.

 

The first that jumps to my mind is the Valmet/Sako Rk.95 (or it's ancestors Rk.76 & Rk.62). Anyone willing to put another rifle up against the Valmet? :devil:

 

 

The late generation milled Valmets(M76 is sheetmetal) must be the "Ultimate AK" with the Galil a close second only due to it's availability in a non car stopping,non brick chopping caliber in the smaller varieties.

 

Are you about to make a big purchase?

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If you want the BEST AK (actually an AKM) ever made, Go with a Valmet M76. The Pic below is evidently an M76, chrome plated (inside and out) and scanned from "Guns of the Elite" - by George Markham, Stirling Publishing Co, NY, pp 1987, pg 67. (Note: I think this is actually a Valmet M72 and, if I recall correctly, was made for an Arms Show in the Middle East in the late 70's).

A "TRUE" AK-47 (as originally designed and produced) has a milled receiver... AKM's are stamped...

 

I had an M76 back in the late 1980s and I wasn't that impressed with it.I always wanted the M62 though and never could find one in decent condition for a reasonable price so I gave up.

 

I thought about getting a Galil MAR and geting the Pete Kokalis 7.62x39 Galil article out of mothballs but then I look at my Saigas and can't really justify that kind of expense without some sort of measurable benefit.

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What about SVD's and such? I vote the original Dragunov.

When did the SVD become an AK?

 

Since when was it not an Ak? I've always thought of it as an Ak with a different gas system and furnature. It's as much an Ak as a Galil is haha :P

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What about SVD's and such? I vote the original Dragunov.

When did the SVD become an AK?

 

Since when was it not an Ak? I've always thought of it as an Ak with a different gas system and furnature.

Mr. Kalashnikov had nothing at all to do with the SVD.

 

Mr. Evgeny Dragunov is the inventor of the fine sniper rifle.

 

It's as much an Ak as a Galil is haha :P

Well, they're both rifles built in the Soviet Union. Hows that for relations?

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What about SVD's and such? I vote the original Dragunov.

When did the SVD become an AK?

 

Since when was it not an Ak? I've always thought of it as an Ak with a different gas system and furnature. It's as much an Ak as a Galil is haha :P

 

The FCG mechanics on the SVD are completely different from the Kalashnikov family of rifles. The Romanian PSL is more like an AK. It looks like an SVD, but functions like an AK.

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What about SVD's and such? I vote the original Dragunov.

When did the SVD become an AK?

 

Since when was it not an Ak? I've always thought of it as an Ak with a different gas system and furnature. It's as much an Ak as a Galil is haha :P

 

The FCG mechanics on the SVD are completely different from the Kalashnikov family of rifles. The Romanian PSL is more like an AK. It looks like an SVD, but functions like an AK.

Not to mention the short stroke gas system. Not one single part of an SVD is interchangeable with that of any AK so that's not an AK in my book.

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do we have some agreed-upon criteria about "what constitutes an AK"?

 

I basically based my definition as to what was most faithful to the original AK47/74 design without being something else.

 

I would fudge the definition as far as to potentially allow Valmet/Galil/R4, but not as far as to allow the SVD, VZ58, or XCR- despite the fact that they share genre, origin, or calibre & gas system commonalities. By THAT token, one would start to go as far as to claim that the 55x series are part of the extended family.

 

On the other hand, I DO think that the PSL would still count within the stricter boundaries of my definition, if you want a left-field choice.

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Hmmmm...I still think the Galil comes out on top. When it comes to accuracy, there are many things that come into play, but the three big things are Ammo, Rifle, and last but not least; SHOOTER. I could hand the village idiot a precision made, match grade weapon rated for 2000 yards, and he could not hit a damn thing. But I could give an experienced sniper a stock Romak-3, with LPS ammo and have him put a 2" group and 400m. I shoot most accurately with my Galil, but someone else may shoot best with a Valmet or AKM.

 

Reliability is a relative term, if you keep the weapon clean and field strip it regularly it should run well; unless of course you are running some really crappy POS that has a bent receiver and a crooked bolt. :P Any weapon can jam given enough sand...

 

It really is up to you...if you feel comfortable, shoot it well, and LIKE it; it's a keeper no matter what someone else says. That's my take on things...

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I would fudge the definition as far as to potentially allow Valmet/Galil/R4, but not as far as to allow the SVD, VZ58, or XCR- despite the fact that they share genre, origin, or calibre & gas system commonalities.
"Commonalities" implies interchangeability. Just because a firearm utilizes principles from a precedent, that doesn't make it the same.
On the other hand, I DO think that the PSL would still count within the stricter boundaries of my definition, if you want a left-field choice.
It is a true Kalashnikov design (slightly amped up on the 'roids)

 

 

Hmmmm...I still think the Galil comes out on top.
Allow me to repeat myself:

 

Top dog is the Valmet Rk95.

 

sakork95cloneb.jpg

 

The Finns have taken the basic Kalashnikov attributes and enhanced them. They've gotten rid of the stuff that sucks.

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I would fudge the definition as far as to potentially allow Valmet/Galil/R4, but not as far as to allow the SVD, VZ58, or XCR- despite the fact that they share genre, origin, or calibre & gas system commonalities.
"Commonalities" implies interchangeability. Just because a firearm utilizes principles from a precedent, that doesn't make it the same.
On the other hand, I DO think that the PSL would still count within the stricter boundaries of my definition, if you want a left-field choice.
It is a true Kalashnikov design (slightly amped up on the 'roids)

 

 

Hmmmm...I still think the Galil comes out on top.
Allow me to repeat myself:

 

Top dog is the Valmet Rk95.

 

sakork95cloneb.jpg

 

The Finns have taken the basic Kalashnikov attributes and enhanced them. They've gotten rid of the stuff that sucks.

 

I was referring to "commonalities" in the context of "having things [abstractly] in common" but still not being capable of being referred to interchangeably. I'm pretty sure we are in agreement. And yes, I'd say the Valmet not only counts, but ranks very high.

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  • 2 months later...

This whole thing boils down to what an AK is... My 556 has a kalashinikov gas piston... I have 10 kalashnikovs and wouldnt consider any of them high quality but as far as accuracy goes with mine - 1st PSL 2nd RPK 3rd s223 then the 7.62s My AK pistol is actually more accurate on a sandbag than a couple of my riffles?

 

My 2 shtf guns are a converted s12 and a converted s223 with ar mag conversion

 

As far as AKM the MAK 90s are hard to beat for accuracy, the Yugo M70s are pretty accurate as well.

 

The thing with AKs is what kind of mood was the person in when they built it and what was the quality of parts used on your particular gun.

 

Ive had 5 WASR 10s and they always get the bad rap, 2 I had were sub par on accuracy based on other akm's 2 average, and 1 better than average. I started comparing them and noticed that the one that shot the best had the smoothest action and fit and finish were superb. Did some research and found out it had the little triangle with arrow in it which are the better quality of the wasrs. If i was in Afgan I would take the wasr with romy g forward grip and larue iron dot over any of my guns Super light weight, durable, comfortable and never any hiccups. Of course in the US the s223 wins..

 

I think that's another thing most people don't consider, how would you like to carry an IMI galil in the desert? not me, yes they may be more accurate but I would be so fatigued from carrying it that I couldn't hit a 74 caddy 10ft in front of me.

 

If all your going to do is sandbag it (range shoot) then buy the most accurate regardless of weight. But if you are going to carry it and shoot it off hand, buy the gun that feels like it was designed for you regardless of price, that would be the "BEST AK".

 

On a sandbag no AK compares to my sig 556, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to carry that thing in the desert

 

My 2 cents and some random ranting and raving...

Edited by justinmcmillion
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the chinese have made some good advancements with there aks i like there type 56 ( i think thats it) they made a three piece colaspable recoil rod with a progressive main spring that cut recoil by 50% then the cut it down to a 14 inces and put a adjustable gas system and the flash hider has a chamber before the bird cage type hider which helps with accuracy

 

it may not be the best but I think it has goo ideas

Edited by Blazer76
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that's actually a slightly tougher call. Though the Chinese made one model that was a direct copy (the Type 56) they also made a heavily-Kalashnikov-based weapon, the Type 81, that joins the INSAS as being in a category of weapons that don't technically qualify as Kalashnikovs (in the pure sense.) While the Galil and Valmet represent improvements in manufacturing processes and some minor mechanical advances, none of this comes at the cost of general compatability with the greater family of Kalashnikov parts, and the design, while improved, is still fundamentally the same. Having said that- the Type 81, INSAS, and to a certain degree the VZ58 all represent serious improvements that one should take note of were they to design a new Kalashnikov-pattern rifle.

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<snip>and to a certain degree the VZ58 all represent serious improvements that one should take note of were they to design a new Kalashnikov-pattern rifle.

Unlike the INSAS, the Vz58 was not designed after the Kalashnikov whatsoever.

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that's why i qualified the statement. one could argue the same about the Type-81; they were designed to a similar set of criteria as the AK series and fire the same round, but underneath bear little to no commonality whatsoever. I personally think that both of those give the AK a run for the money and thus deserve to be considered in the conversation about "the best AK" because to some degree it is really a conversation about the same school of assault rifle design (the 2nd World model of design if you will.)

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There are two Kalashnikov based weapons we haven't covered that will outshoot anything mentioned in this thread but as to their reliability I don't have the experience to say.

 

Galil SR99

sr99-alone.gif

 

SIG SAPR

SAPR-DM.jpg

 

and before anyone of you say the SIGs aren't Kalashnikov based look at the bolt/carrier and trunnion and then get back with me

 

550_bolt_and_carrier.jpg

 

It's every bit as much a Kalashnikov as a Valmet,Galil,Krink,etc

Edited by SOPMOD
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that's why I say this conversation could be more fun as a what "AK school" rifle is the best. that's the best term I could think of for it, as there is definitely a school of design predominant amongst 1st generation and early 2nd generation assault rifles that represents an entirely different design philosophy than that of the "AR school" which predominates amongst 3rd and 4th generation assault rifles. Common features include the use of Industrial Age technology, like stamped sheetmetal receivers and the influence of machine gun design, as well as a predisposition towards earlier rifle calibres and rounds that were influenced by them. It's also difficult to establish a DIRECT sequence of design, as there was alot of cross-pollination of ideas- that SIG being a perfect example of that. On the other hand, I still wouldn't count it as being amongst the more "Orthodox" AK derivatives, as the tight tolerances really represent a total break from other AK-inspired weapons. Like I said earlier, there is a difference between a common part, mechanism, or calibre and being an "AK-patterned rifle".

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  • 3 weeks later...

The chinese were in their own little world weapons wise, designing everything in committee. Luckily for all of us, they are doing away with AKs now after their attempt of a krink, which was pretty interesting.

 

Im currious, someone mentioned the INSAS as counting as an AK, but does that mean that the FNC (which the INSAS is based on) is an AK as well? The sig is a stretch too, even if the bolt was copied from the ak, that doesnt make the whole gun an ak, anymore than it would make every long piston bolt carrier a Dementiev.

 

I wouldnt mind having either, though, especially an INSAS to play with and think there should definitely be more aks with adjustable gas ports, non reciprocating charging handles, long sight base diopter sights, and ambi safeties. I hear its overly bulky and heavy though, for a poodleshooter, and the burst mechanism is prone to failure, as are the composite magaizines, so nothing is perfect. So when is someone gonna start building them? ill sit on the design committee.

 

rajinscope2.jpg

DSC00072.JPG

 

Not so sure about this one:

insas2carbine1au1.jpg

Edited by ReverendFranz
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  • 4 months later...

You gotta love the search function. LOL

 

I was wondering "What's the best AK currently out there? And should I post a thread asking that. But first, I'll read the threads and do a search, just in case." :rolleyes:

 

 

I've only owned a few AKs over the years, but the one I really loved and wish I had never parted with was my Valmet. Those things are pretty expensive now. :cryss:

 

Of course, from a practical standpoint, cheaper ammo is nice too. So something in 8mm Mauser or 7.62x54R would be nice. But I'll confine my comments to the 7.62x39. Would the Saiga 410 be able to be converted for 7.62x54R? :rolleyes: Hmmmmm......

 

 

Corbin

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You gotta love the search function. LOL

 

I was wondering "What's the best AK currently out there? And should I post a thread asking that. But first, I'll read the threads and do a search, just in case." :rolleyes:

 

 

I've only owned a few AKs over the years, but the one I really loved and wish I had never parted with was my Valmet. Those things are pretty expensive now. :cryss:

 

Of course, from a practical standpoint, cheaper ammo is nice too. So something in 8mm Mauser or 7.62x54R would be nice. But I'll confine my comments to the 7.62x39. Would the Saiga 410 be able to be converted for 7.62x54R? :rolleyes: Hmmmmm......

 

 

Corbin

 

The best AK value on the market right now is (by far) the Arsenal SGL21. It's a "Saiga" from Izhmash's custom shop called Legion, that's been pimped out to AK-103 military specs (minus the folding stock and (obviously) selective fire). They used to cost $900, until Arsenal made them a part of their "AK Stimulus Plan" sale. When the sale first began, they were $500. Right now, they are $550 and this price is only going to last until December 7th.

 

I really like mine - looks and feels like a high quality build with good finish and shoots sub 2.5" groups from 100 yards. I don't think that much else comes close for the money. I highly recommend getting one while they are still cheap.

Edited by SpetsnazGRU
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If it's not an AK, It's not an AK to me. I think the proper term would be-

Kalashnikov Pattern Rifles

As far as I can think;

 

Finn Valment

Izzy and S. Afr Galil

Belgian FNC

Indian INAS

Sing SAR-21

Swed Ak-5

Korean Daewoo

 

Anyone else add more?

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If it's not an AK, It's not an AK to me. I think the proper term would be-

Kalashnikov Pattern Rifles

As far as I can think;

 

Finn Valment

Izzy and S. Afr Galil

Belgian FNC

Indian INAS

Sing SAR-21

Swed Ak-5

Korean Daewoo

 

Anyone else add more?

The ones in red are NOT AKs at all. They just use various designs from the Kalashnikov.

 

Some other rifles that aren't Kalashnikovs that are also using Kalashnikov influences are the

 

Sig 550 series

KelTec SU-16 series

RobArms XCR

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