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Important article for those who use a .410 for self defense


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#1 Mountain Doctor

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 11:54 AM

This article is based on the Taurus Judge revolver, but I believe the results can be extrapolated to the Saiga. Doubless the Saiga would perform better, especially with 3 inch shells, but overall the penetration performance of the .410 buckshot, and slugs, were dismal. IMHO, this website gives good, reliable scientific load penetration information and can be trusted.

http://www.theboxotr.../docs/bot41.htm

#2 6x6pinz

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 12:54 PM

The problem with people who insist on comparing 410 shotshell loads out of short barrel pistols is their ignorance as to the way a shotshell works. In a pistol the powder charge burns up fairly quickly in most cases around 4" in a shotgun the powder can still be burning at 14 to 16 inches. The shotshell never gets the load up to speed in the short barrels of the pistols and the results will show this. I have a friend with a Thompson Contender 410 6" barrel that could hardly knock a bottle of water over at 25yds. With the same load in my saiga the bottle is blown apart.

BTW you must live in a bad part of the country. We can get 410 shells in any variety including flares, slugs, bird shot and buckshot, although it is pricey.

Edited by 6x6pinz, 25 February 2008 - 12:55 PM.


#3 Mountain Doctor

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 01:40 PM

The problem with people who insist on comparing 410 shotshell loads out of short barrel pistols is their ignorance as to the way a shotshell works. In a pistol the powder charge burns up fairly quickly in most cases around 4" in a shotgun the powder can still be burning at 14 to 16 inches. The shotshell never gets the load up to speed in the short barrels of the pistols and the results will show this. I have a friend with a Thompson Contender 410 6" barrel that could hardly knock a bottle of water over at 25yds. With the same load in my saiga the bottle is blown apart.

BTW you must live in a bad part of the country. We can get 410 shells in any variety including flares, slugs, bird shot and buckshot, although it is pricey.


I did not write the article, I only shared it as I think it has useful data. I did state that the shotgun would perform better than the pistol, but I do not know if I would bet my life, or my family's life on it when there are more potent calibers available.

That said, I would not want to be hit by a .410, or a .22 for that matter, especially at close range. A well placed .410 slug could make an attacker just as dead as a .357, but lacks the penetration and devastation needed to make the most of a more poorly placed shot.

I would have no issue using a .410 for a life and death scenario, but why not use a more powerful unit, provided you can afford it and can handle it expertly?

BTW, I live in the Southeast Washington desert. It's a great place, and there are plenty of stores that sell all kinds of ammo. Like I said, I did not write the article. Its author lives in Texas.

#4 6x6pinz

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 02:19 PM

not aimed at anyone in particular. I just get tired of hearing the old "410's don't have the power" thing. The first time I saw a Saiga it was being used by Russian security for interior building patrol. At that time the side folder stock would engage the safety when folded, kind of odd to me for a Russian weapon. I don't really want a round flying through several walls of my house, so I prefer the 410 with shot. If the home is being invaded by someone wearing body armor they would most likely be at the wrong address, nothing worth enough to warrant that experienced of a thief. The usual druggy or common thief looking for a quick score I am willing to bet does not wear body armor and would be a soft target.
The 22 rimfire is another sore point. The Brady law that we all love so much was triggered by what caliber again?
No ill feelings toward anyone just commenting on the article with my opinions.

#5 Zoub

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 04:42 PM

Any shot load fired from any handgun in any caliber is a joke.

As for how a shotgun kills, it is all about penentration. So a load of buckshot with three balls from a .410 will kill just like a load of similar sized buck in another gauge. Only issue is now you are counting on 3 to to do the job versus, 9 to 15. with three you will never do the damage or transer the Ft/lbs of energy that you will with a larger gauge. If one ball hits the right spot, target is dead or at least maimed.

But, at close range you still have to aim your shotgun and the target is likely moving, so a miss is a miss and a hit is a hit. Personally, I feel if you are going to pick up a gun that weighs 7 to 10 pounds it should flat ass kill.

.410 slugs will kill but are no where near as effective as handgun rounds that are made for killing people. So why use .410 slugs in a shotgun indoors over any caliber handgun 9mm and up? A Kelt tec with 33rds of 9mm will eat a .410 slug gun alive.

Key is you have to compare apples to apples in the shotgun world and often people do not.

Lets not even talk about shooting .410 slugs from a handgun. That is like the triple banger holy grail of WTF are you doing that for?

Edited by Zoub, 25 February 2008 - 04:43 PM.


#6 Twinsen

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:36 PM

I thought the point of the .410 was that it delivered the same type of balls at the same velocity of 12 gauge, but only 1/3 the amount of shot (and therefore recoil)?

After reading though this review, I have concluded this guy is not working with a full deck. He claims 4.5 inches of flesh penetration is not enough. 3 .30cal pellets going 4.5 inches through your body doesn't sound like a party to me... it sounds like that's enough to come out the back of some people, leaving 3 holes in them. Also, they didn't flatten from going down the barrel, anybody that has recovered buckshot knows how stupid that sounds.

Edited by Twinsen, 25 February 2008 - 08:41 PM.

I might end up being around a lot more.
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#7 onanon

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 02:51 PM

Heres my testing and post on another forum with the 3" 410. A slug is a bit anemic and I couldnt get a true straight shot thru more than 2 water jugs but the buckshot was absolutely devastating.

http://www.shotgunwo.......sc&start=15




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