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H&R / NEF Pardner 12 pump - thoughts


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Hi all,

 

Now.... i know it is not a saiga....but are any of you familiar with the H&R/NEF Pardner 12 ga pump shotgun, for all intents it appears to be a Chinese made copy of a Rem 870. I was looking at one the other day, and for a simple SHTF dufflebag gun (this is the "protector" model 5+1 capacity, black synthetic funiture......for $169.

 

totally operates like an 870 so that is nice, takes 3 inch shells, that is nice, price is right for a SHTF gun and i would be much happier releasing my Tacticool urges on a $170 gun than my 870 Wingmaster.....

 

anyone have experience, do you know if 870 accessories fit these?

 

thanks all

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Chinese made? I have owned several of the NEF/H&R firearms through the years (45-70's, 450 Marlin and 12 ga. Pardner single shots) and they all proudly displayed a "Made in USA" printed all over their boxes. Have they changed things for this particular firearm or could you be mistaken on that part of it? Or maybe I'm mistaken?

 

I can't say that I've owned anything they have produced that was not a single shot rifle or shotgun so I can't be any help on this pump. Regarding the quality of NEF/H&R firearms in general I can say that they have always proven to be solid utility firearms that have served me well in years past for hunting big game. I have had a few with some beautiful wood but usually they are nothing too fancy but very reliable.

 

Maine Marshal

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anyone have experience, do you know if 870 accessories fit these?

 

thanks all

 

 

Everything I've read on-line leads me to believe everything fits, except the barrels. Apparently this version has the barrel ring in a different place. Tube extensions (2-shot) will extend beyond the end of the barrel. There is a guy on Guns America that custom makes a 2-shot extension tube for these guns ($65.00).

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Chinese made? I have owned several of the NEF/H&R firearms through the years (45-70's, 450 Marlin and 12 ga. Pardner single shots) and they all proudly displayed a "Made in USA" printed all over their boxes. Have they changed things for this particular firearm or could you be mistaken on that part of it? Or maybe I'm mistaken?

 

I think these are Norinco made imports with the NEF/HR name on them.

 

read on another forum that one guy feels they actually have better parkerizing than the low end 870 Express models.

 

but heck....for $170....it is going to make a decent backup 12 ga

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answering my own question here i think......

 

found this over on another forum.....thought i would post just in case anyone else was interested in a complete review of the gun

 

 

 

_______________

 

Okay, A buddy and myself purchased a couple of 12 gauge, 3 inch chambered, black synthetic stocked, 28 inch barrel with screw in choke pump shotguns by NEF or New England Firearms. These pumpers are a cheap china knock off of the Remington 870 Express shotgun that we have come to know and love as an inexpensive and reliable work horse of a gun.

 

NEF has been importing the Pardner pump from China and these guns are cheap...I don't mean cheap as in garbage, I mean an inexpensive and reliable alternative to the Reminton 870 Express. Before you go all half cocked and bent out of shape about how I can state that this cheap china import is as good as the remington 870 please be patient and read along.

 

First, Let me touch upon the economics of the NEF Pardner pump, Wally World plans on selling the PP brand new for $144.98 plus tax. We found the Pardner pump at Dicks sporting goods for $139.99 less $10.00 for an advertised special and another $10.00 gift certificate for use on other items. This made the purchase price $129.99 plus tax and the gift certificate let me buy a box of turkey loads and a box of Remington 2 3/4 OO buckshot. I made my purchase at Dicks, My buddy(an even cheaper screw than me) took advantage of Gander Mountains gun sales policy which states they will not only beat any advertised gun price by the difference but will then double it up to $50.00. In other words my cheap screw buddy got his Pardner pump 12ga. for $109.99 plus tax! If someone is on a budget this is a very good bang for the buck.

 

Now let me tell you about the shotgun and the visual and functional differences between the Parder Pump and the Remington Express. Right away the main differences between the two guns are that the Pardner pump has a longer Magazine tube than the Remington 870 express allowing two more 2 3/4" shells to be placed/used in the Pardner Pump vs. the 870 Express. The next biggest difference between the guns is the screw in choke system used. The PP uses either Winchoke, Mossberg chokes or the Browning Invector choke system(not the Invector+ chokes) while the 870 express obviously uses Rem chokes.

 

The PP has a truly effective recoil pad that beats the 870 express recoil pad and many others hands down. I was very impressed when shooting heavy loads and slugs.

 

The PP has a dark blued/black finnish over an unpolished steel reciever and barrel, not the best quality but I have seen much worse on other much higher priced guns and to be honest it has a better finnish than the 870 Express.

 

The PP weighs 6.51 pounds empty.

 

The synthetic stocks forend and pistol grip stock has molded in checkering that provides good grip in very sloppy weather. Important to me in all shooting conditions. ( Note> we have not tested the PP yet in freezing snowy weather<)

 

To prevent barrels from being interchanged between the Remington 870 express and the NEF PP the notches in the barrel that plug into the reciever are different lengths and the barrel ring that fits over the magazine tube and is then locked down by the end cap is placed differently. WE HAVE FOUND A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO MAKE BARREL INTERCHANGE POSSIBLE. However I will not say what this entails online over the internet but rest assured it does work, is safe and is fairly simple to accomplish.

 

All other parts between guns are a direct Ripoff of the 870 Express. While all the parts in the PP are a direct ripoff from the 870 that does not mean they will make a direct interchange without some fitting...but it can be done because the parts are so close in tolerance with each other. We know this because we have done it. From the entire trigger group to the screw threads on the end cap of the magazine tube(I make mention of the end cap because so many people want to add a sling easily for combat or field use) The Bolt measurements between the two guns make it much to difficult for simple fitting but other than that these guns are like twins. I think that future parts availability is important when making a gun purchase thats why I have some reservations about the NEF PP, we just do not know how long it will be around, While NEF has been around for many years that still does not mean parts for the PP will be. We also know that Remington parts are easily obtained and will be for many moons to come. This makes the Remington hard to beat.

 

My father is of the STAHL family. Stahl steel is a huge global metals company and even makes gun barrels for Glock and others of note, my dad is a no nonsense metalurgist and is wise to all manufacturing proccesses. Dad was kind enough to test and compare each metal part including the screws and springs between the Remington and the NEF China Knockoff. My dads testing wrecked two guns! He literally cut two guns to pieces in his testing and used all forms of advanced analysis to compare the Remington 870 express and the NEF Pardner Pump shotguns metal properties...I did not really mind him chopping up the NEF but both my buddy and I got a little sick when we found out that a new 870 would have to sacrificed.

 

In short my dad found that both the Remington and NEF metals used for the purpose intended were acceptable. My dad did add some caveats of note. He said that in some ways the NEF PP had superior metal parts/fit and finnish when compared to the Remington 870 Express. He said the metal used in the reciever was considered better quality in the NEF but countered by saying the barrel steel used in the Remington 870 was of better quality. He also stated that these differences were so small that in the end game it did not matter one iota.

 

Just think about it, my buddy and I sacrificed two guns just to hear my dad the expert tell us both guns are to close in steel quality to make any difference LOL.

 

Our testing in the field since May 2005 shows some major shooting differences in these guns. The two guns were not destroyed by my dad until after thousands of shells were cycled and continue to be cycled through one remaining NEF PP.

 

Both my buddy and I know that you can go to many different gun shops and pick up the same model gun, test what the trigger feels like, look at the fit and finnish and find an unbelievable amount of quality differences between the same models on any given day! This tells me Quality control must be awfully lax at times. We found that in some instances that we could pick up the more expensive $700.00 Remington 870 Wingmaster that has a nice finnish and pumps the action smoothly but the trigger pulls roughness and creep along with sideplay was disgusting! yet four guns over to the right on the gun rack we could pick up the workhorse $259.00 Remington 870 express and found the trigger pull to be far superior than the better finnished higher end model Wingmaster and at the same time cycle smoothly. We also found the same thing when making the comparisons from 870 Express to 870 Express, one guns fit and finnish would be great, the next one horrible. One guns barrel would be very good visually the next barrel would show rings from left over tool marks, have a really rough chamber and fit to the reciever would be sloppy. This made it difficult to find an "average" 870 Express to compare to the average NEF Pardner Pump. So we made the decision to go to a gun shop we never went to before and purchase the first 870 Express we picked up off the rack. The 870 we bought turned out to be in the just OK fit and finnish department with quite frankly a very poor blueing job over the unpolished metal barrel and reciever. The inner barrel bore looked okay but showed a few machine ring marks(just because a shotgun barrel has ring marks does not mean it will not pattern well). The trigger had some creep and measured 7.2 lbs of pull to make the hammer fall. The action was stiff when cycling but we figured a few thousands shells through her would fix that problem. It did and the 870 shot Okay patterns, not great but good enough for a field gun. The 870's point of aim was about 2" high and right at 20 yards and a full 5" right and 4 "low at 40 yards with our baseline Remington STS target loads. The five inches right at 40 yards is unaceptable and was fixed to shoot point on at 40yards.

 

The NEF Pardner Pump shotguns we checked at many stores were very much the same in fit and finnish from gun to gun and so was the trigger, the only differences we have seen are what the barrel bores looks like. The two PP's we purchased both had nice shiny smooth bores with very good chambers. We did however find some PP's that had rough chambers with the same machine ring marks that the Remingtons showed. The triggers of both guns had some creep but not as much as the 870 and they both fired with a measured 6.1 and 6.3lbs respectively. All of the NEF PP's we checked have very stiff actions when cycled and in my opinion require tuning. The owners manual says the NEF PP comes with a modified choke...thats false, every Pardner pump choke we measured at every store was a true full choke and our guns patterned like full choke.

 

My NEF Pardner Pump now has 8000 Remington STS light target loads through her. It has 400 Remington Premier 3" magnum Turkey loads through her. It has 100 Remington Slugger HV rifled slugs through her(with an improved cylinder Choke size). It has 100 Remington express 2 3/4" OO buckshot shells through her. It has 1700 Remington heavy pheasant loads through her. It has 50 Remington Hevi Shot HV waterfowl shells through her(Dam those Hevi Shot loads are expensive) These Hevi Shot Loads should work great soon when Goose season opens! The Pardner pump also has 2000 rounds of DIANA 2 3/4" heavy target loads through her. It also has many different types of Winchester shot shell ammunition fired through her as well by folks who have borrowed the gun, but the numbers of shells and loads were not logged like the Remington Ammo and DIANA shells were. We have not fired one round of any type of handload. My self and my shooting buddy have used nothing but the Pardner Pump since the begining of May 2005, we have fired it in pounding rain storms and in dusty dry dirty conditions, it was always cleaned and lubed after each shooting session. As of Sept. 10th 2005 the Pardner Pump has a documented 12,350 shotshells run through it with no failures to operate or feed(except a few feeding problems caused by operator errors from short shuckingLOL) We plan on putting the Pardner Pump through a very harsh fall and winter hunting regime. Fall turkey season first, followed by duck,goose and upland game. It will also be used for Hunting Whitetails this fall.

 

The Pardner Pump patterns a very well defined, effective dense area with all chokes and shot shell load combinations. We really could not find any fault with the patterns the Pardner pump put on paper at the standard ranges with both lead and steel shot(observe proper choke use when shooting steel shot) I wish we could have found an acceptable way of testing shot string quality but this proved difficult, instead shooting experience from many shooters and barrel design gave us at least some kind of baseline for shot string length and quality with many different ammunition loads. We also tried to place a long cardboard target behind a pickup truck moving at 35 MPH (what a comedy of errors that was) But after a while we got it right. All indications show a shot string average of around 4.4 feet at 40 yards.(not bad at all) However good pattern density and shot string do not tell the whole story when it comes to good shotgunning and the Pardner Pump lacked in some key areas. One area the Pardner Pump fell down on the job was point of impact. When aiming at a specific spot the point of impact was way low and left at 20 yards and only got worse at 40 yards. At 40 yards my NEF PP's point of impact was a full 8 inches left of aim point. Since the stock is synthetic instead of wood, custom fitting for better point of impact using standard shotgun fitting methods is out of the question and you can only do so much movement of the front bead site. We ended up bending the barrel slightly by supporting the barrel ends up off a table a few inches and using a screw C clamp to make a slight bend along the middle of the barrel. After a little trial and error This barrel bending method worked GREAT! Now the point of aim is dead nuts on target with no visible marks on the barrel or the barrels raised rib. My shootings buddies Pardner Pump shot low and left also but not anywhere near as severe, his gun patterned very well and when he placed a low profile adjusable HI VIS magnetic front site on his barrel point of impact was just fine. Reports from local gunsmiths and other owners say they have not had this point of impact problem. After this barrel fix, the gun has no faults. The barrel design of the Pardner Pump includes a long forcing cone for reduced recoil and less shot deformation, its my opinion that after spending countless hours counting pellet hits on paper with all kinds of Remington shotshells that this gun patterns as good as my custom Perazzi shotgun barrels.

 

The Pardner Pump swings and balances nicely to target, I am partial and biased to the 28" long barrel because it gives good pointability for long precise shots along with enough swing speed to pick up fast moving close breaking birds. This is a personal thing but for an inexpensive mass produced field gun the Pardner Pump fits me fairly well. I will not get into what makes a good fitting shotgun but many people seem to be able to adjust very well to the gun. I have to say this Pardner Pump Shotgun has been one reliable shotgun, I pull the trigger and it goes bang every time with no problems. We are going to build a home defense shotgun with the PP when NEF makes other barrels available late this fall or early next year according to an NEF person I spoke with a few weeks ago on the phone.

 

Just to be clear...I hate any company that steals another companies design or theft of intelectual property, and have serious problems with NEF importing and selling these shotguns because they are a very close duplicate of the Remington 870. I am guessing that Remingtons patent protection is all but gone for the 870 and that is why NEF can get away with selling such a close copy. But at the same time this Pardner Pump is one hell of a good deal. To me its a throw it in the truck I don't give a shit about it any weather shotgun that works reliable all the time. What more could you ask for in a gun for around $130.00.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The following ATI accessories (generic kits for Moss. 500/590, Rem. 870, Win. 1200/1300, Maverick 88, & Norinco 98) will fit a NEF Pardner Pump...

 

TFS-0600 top folding stock

SFP-0300 forend pistol grip

SHO-0500 x5 shotshell holder

 

... for the forend grip you have to mix-n-match some of the adapters, but it works great. I could figure it out for you by process of elimination if you want.

 

Question: Does anyone know where I can get a NEF 12 gauge 18" barrell w/o sending the receiver back to the manufacturer? I've been unlucky at gun shows so far.

 

Question: The imported folding stock they sell on this site for un-modified Saiga receivers is out of stock - does anyone know when they are getting more? - or if there is another manufacturer?

 

Thanks

Edited by RBSaiga308
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Just to be clear...I hate any company that steals another companies design or theft of intelectual property, and have serious problems with NEF importing and selling these shotguns because they are a very close duplicate of the Remington 870. I am guessing that Remingtons patent protection is all but gone for the 870 and that is why NEF can get away with selling such a close copy. But at the same time this Pardner Pump is one hell of a good deal. To me its a throw it in the truck I don't give a shit about it any weather shotgun that works reliable all the time. What more could you ask for in a gun for around $130.00.

I hate to say it, but we are destroying our own domestic firearms industry when we buy cheap Chinese imitations of real American-made guns. Its one thing to buy milsurp...its another to buy a blatant ripoff copy of an American design. The chinese guns are cheap for one reason alone...they dont pay a living wage to the emplyees who make them. I would rather spend the extra money to support an American company.

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A friend let me try his, I fired it twice and the front sight fell off. Then I turned it sideways, and the rear sight fell off. They fall off a lot, he must need to find some kind of high-heat glue to keep it on, because the screws back right out with loctite.

 

He is the only guy with a pump shotgun that I've ever seen lose a competition due to a faulty gun though. Something stupid happens every day he shoots it in competition, but he usually gets most of the way through and somebody lets him use theirs. I wouldn't say it's a horrible gun, I mean... it shoots. I'd rather have any american made pump though.

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I bought a used 870 Express a few years back for $125, and I spent another $75 to get an 18" barrel for it. Its been a great gun for me, no issues at all, I would rely on it before I would trust my life to a piece of cheap imitation Chinese crap.

Edited by soberups
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  • 3 weeks later...

Well...i have two 870 wingmasters, 12 and 20 ga.....

 

I have played with my father in laws 870 express, and personally think it feels like crap.....rough action, bad trigger

 

the pump parder, while made in China, feels much better to me than the express 870s, and whether or not i buy chinese or american matters little since Good Ole Remington bought marlin, NEF, H&R, and had now shut the doors on the AMERICAN plant making the AMERICAN MADE NEF/HR single shot handi-rifles (get them while you can boys!). Remington is buying up the US made competition and shutting them down. Not like China made that decision.....

 

Lets hope they don't SHITCAN Marlin as well.

Edited by RangerM9
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  • 2 months later...

I've got the H&R Protector variant, and it's friggin' sweet. 18.5" barrel, found a mag extension that fit, so now I've got 7+1, heavy duty build, looks great. You really can't go wrong with these. Oh, and the company that owns Remington (Cerebus) owns the factory where these are made in China, and Remington owns both H&R and New England Firearms now. So, they're not really a stolen design, just a cheaper (read: lower priced) build.

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I have owned 870s, 500s, and currently an NEF pardner turkey gun. It was bought 3 years ago new for $140. I have not had a minutes problem with any of them.

 

Twinsen; Based on the quality of my shotgun, I'm astounded that your friend had the sights fall off.

 

soberups; The Remington is a fine shotgun and I expect it will serve you well. I find you pronouncement about "to a piece of cheap imitation Chinese crap" similar to people that say the same thing about Saigas without benefit of handling one first. When the 870 Express was first introduced, I remember guys bemoaning the fact that Remington was "making a cheap imitation Wingmaster". Funny how things turn around isn't it?

vorpal

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Just to be clear...I hate any company that steals another companies design or theft of intelectual property, and have serious problems with NEF importing and selling these shotguns because they are a very close duplicate of the Remington 870. I am guessing that Remingtons patent protection is all but gone for the 870 and that is why NEF can get away with selling such a close copy. But at the same time this Pardner Pump is one hell of a good deal. To me its a throw it in the truck I don't give a shit about it any weather shotgun that works reliable all the time. What more could you ask for in a gun for around $130.00.

I hate to say it, but we are destroying our own domestic firearms industry when we buy cheap Chinese imitations of real American-made guns. Its one thing to buy milsurp...its another to buy a blatant ripoff copy of an American design. The chinese guns are cheap for one reason alone...they dont pay a living wage to the emplyees who make them. I would rather spend the extra money to support an American company.

 

+10^200 Well said.

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  • 3 years later...
Just to be clear...I hate any company that steals another companies design or theft of intelectual property, and have serious problems with NEF importing and selling these shotguns because they are a very close duplicate of the Remington 870. I am guessing that Remingtons patent protection is all but gone for the 870 and that is why NEF can get away with selling such a close copy. But at the same time this Pardner Pump is one hell of a good deal. To me its a throw it in the truck I don't give a shit about it any weather shotgun that works reliable all the time. What more could you ask for in a gun for around $130.00.

I hate to say it, but we are destroying our own domestic firearms industry when we buy cheap Chinese imitations of real American-made guns. Its one thing to buy milsurp...its another to buy a blatant ripoff copy of an American design. The chinese guns are cheap for one reason alone...they dont pay a living wage to the emplyees who make them. I would rather spend the extra money to support an American company.

 

+10^200 Well said.

 

Not well said.

 

You guys need to do your research.

 

H&R, NEF, and Remington are subsidiaries of the Freedom Group which means they have the same parent company.

 

In some cases your ignorance is not bliss.

 

 

 

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