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#1 Juggernaut

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 12:32 PM

From MD Arms





Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Is this drum legal to own?

A: Federal -There are no federal laws against owning or using this magazine at 20rd capacity. There are no federal permits or fees required or associated with this magazine.

State & Local - This 20rd magazine is legal to own in most states and areas. Even in most of the 20rd capacity restricted areas, except California, you can still purchase a drum with a capacity limited to the capacity limit of your state or area. Below is a list of restricted areas in 20rd capacity. Followed by the restricted state or area is the capacity limits for that location in (XXrds). If you order a mag from a restricted state or area it will be shipped with a capacity limit of (XXrds) for your area. Also please note that the capacity limit is NOT going to be easily or readily convertible to a 20rd capacity. Just to make it clear, extreme measures will be made by MD Arms, Ltd to prevent convertibility. And any attempt to do so will be at the sole responsibility of the person attempting such in the terms of legal liability and unit damages. Please don't order from a 20rd capacity restricted state or area with the hopes of a possibility of getting such. Although we are providing this information, it is the buyer responsibility to maintain changing information in there own local laws and legality of owning this item in your area.

The restricted states and areas in a 20rd capacity are as follows:



Restricted in the State of:

New York (10rds)

New Jersey (6rds)

California (No detachable mags on a semi-automatic shotgun allowed in the state)

Massachusetts (5rds) (20rds with a Massachusetts's state issued Class A or B Right to Carry Permit)



Restricted in The City of:

Aurora, Illinois (15rds)

Chicago, Illinois (12rds)

Franklin Park, Illinois (16rds)

Oak Park, Illinois (10rds)



If you are curious about your state or local laws, you can view up to date information anytime from this link:

www.handgunlaw.us/documents/NoHiCapChemSpray.pdf



No exception will be made on shipping a 20rd capacity drum to restricted states or areas. If you have a special right to own such in restricted states or areas due to occupation or licence, proof must be provided in writing and then verified by MD Arms, Ltd. Absolutely No Exceptions!



Q: Is this magazine 922r compliant?

A: Yes, every component of this magazine is made in the United States of America. It is compliant and legal with ANY Saiga-12 firearm. It counts as 3 US parts in the Federal guidelines on 922r compliant.



Q: Do you ship outside of the United States?

A: At this time we only offer sales to the 50 States. We are looking into the legalities and permits involved in shipping this item out of country. But for now, No.

Product Overview:



Material, Components, and Features:

Q: What is it made from?

A: While most similar products are made from glass filled nylon, MD Arms went a step above and made our drum out of glass filled polyphthalamide with steel inserts. Polyphthalamide is in the nylon family but is not nylon. It outperforms nylon in strength, toughness, and durability. It retains these properties in humanly unbearable hot and cold conditions. The material is commonly used to replace metal components. The back cover plate is a transparent polycarbonate and allows you to easily see the drum's ammo capacity. The spring is made of 302 stainless steel. Also the tension of the spring is adjustable to meet your specific demands on ammo weight differences. The feed-lips are made of black-oxide coated spring steel.



Q: How much does the drum weigh?

A: The drum is light weight at around 1.75 lbs. empty.



Q: Will this drum fit my Saiga-12?

A: Our drum will fit any model Saiga-12 in the United States, factory or converted.



Q: Is the feed angle the same as the factory mags?

A: We took great care and concern in making sure our drums have the same feed angle in the chamber as factory mags, to provide the best in reliability.



Q: Does this drum take all 2 3/4 inch 12ga rounds? 3 inch rounds?

A: No. Our mag will take the very most of 2 3/4 inch rounds up to 2.40 inches in length. Some 2 3/4 inch rounds such as roll crimped Wolf and steel cased Silver Bear or too long to fit at 2.50 inches or 2 1/2 inches. This drum will not accept 3 inch mag rounds and can in no way be modified to fit them.



Q: Can this drum be loaded on a closed bolt at full capacity?

A: No. Our drum cannot be loaded on a closed bolt at 20rd capacity. It can be loaded on a closed bolt at 19rd capacity.



Q: Will this drum work with my after market Warfield Armory, Last Round Bolt Hold Open?

A: While we currently don't have a way to make our drum active Warfield Armory's LRBHO, our drum can be modified to fit a Saiga-12 with the after market device installed without effecting any function of the drum. You would do this the same way you have done your other mags, by removing the same material off the tower. (this info only concerns those that have this after market device installed)

By ordering you understand and agree to all terms and condition listed herein.

"It is missing the point to believe that the 'ability to fight' is simply about defeating your enemy.
It is not in defeating your enemies; It's about the strategy of killing the evil of one man to give life to ten thousand" ~Yagyu Munenori


#2 Juggernaut

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 12:34 PM

“State Restrictions on Magazines, Chemical Sprays and Stun Guns”
High Capacity Magazine Banned or Restricted 4/13/07
California Large Capacity Magazines
With limited exceptions, California law prohibits any person from manufacturing, importing into
the state, keeping for sale, offering or exposing for sale, giving, or lending any large capacity
magazine. Cal. Penal Code § 12020(a)(2), (B). A "large capacity magazine" is defined as any
ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but does not include
any .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device, any feeding device that has been permanently
altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds, or any tubular magazine that is
contained in a leveraction
firearm. Section 12020©(25). California does not ban the possession of
large capacity magazines.
Upon a showing of good cause, the California Department of Justice may issue permits for the
possession, transportation, or sale of large capacity ammunition magazines between a licensed
California firearms dealer and an outofstate
customer. Section 12079(a). This requirement applies
for only the outofstate
importation and exportation of large capacity ammunition magazines,
including the transportation of such magazines as necessary to complete a transfer to or from an out
of state source. See Cal. Code Regs. tit. 11, § 978.40.
Large capacity magazines may be manufactured for any federal, state, or local government or law
enforcement agency, or for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties,
whether on or off duty. Section 12020(B)(30). Large capacity magazines may also be purchased or
loaned for the sole use as a motion picture, television or video prop. Section 12020(B)(31), (32)(A).
Such magazines may also be resold to law enforcement agencies, government agencies, or the
military, pursuant to applicable federal regulations. Section 12020(B)(32)©.
For additional large capacity ammunition magazine regulations, see Cal. Code Regs. tit. 11, §§
978.40978.44.
Hawaii High Capacity Ammunition Magazines
“The manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of detachable
ammunition magazines with a capacity in excess of ten rounds which are designed for or capable of
use with a pistol is prohibited." Haw. Rev. Stat. § 1348(
c).
Illinois
Aurora
(§ 2949)
bans the possession, sale, or acquisition of large capacity feeding devices
(magazines with a capacity of more than 15 rounds).
2
Chicago
(§§ 820030(
i) and 824025)
bans the transfer, acquisition or possession of assault
ammunition (any ammunition magazine having a capacity of more than 12 rounds).
Franklin Park
(§ 313G3)
bans the transfer, acquisition, possession, manufacture or distribution of assault
ammunition (any detachable ammunition magazine having a capacity of more than 16
rounds).
Oak Park
(§§ 2721
and 2712)
bans the possession and sale of large capacity feeding devices
(magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds).
Riverdale
(§§ 5.120.180 and 5.120.190) bans the possession, transfer, acquisition or manufacture of
assault ammunition (a detachable magazine box with a capacity of “more than 35 rounds
centerfire.”).
Maryland High Capacity Magazines
“A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable
magazine that has a capacity of more than 20 rounds of ammunition for a firearm.” Md. Criminal
Law Code § 4305(
B). This section does not apply to a .22 caliber rifle with a tubular magazine.
Section 4305(
a).
Massachusetts Large Capacity Feeding Devices
The sale, offering for sale, transfer or possession of large capacity feeding devices for assault
weapons (as defined under Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 140, § 121), is prohibited unless such device was
lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994. Ch. 140, § 131M.
Under Massachusetts law, a “large capacity feeding device” is defined as: “(i) a fixed or detachable
magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily
converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; or (ii) a
large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational
Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31) as appearing in such section on
September 13, 1994.” Ch. 140, § 121. This does not include “an attached tubular device designed to
accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber ammunition.” Id.
Large capacity feeding devices designed for large capacity rifles and shotguns may be lawfully
possessed by a holder of a Class A or B license to carry. Ch. 140, § 131(a), (B)(ii). Large capacity
feeding devices designed for handguns may be possessed only by persons holding a Class A license
to carry. Ch. 140, § 131(a).
The Massachusetts Secretary of Public Safety (“Secretary”) is required to compile and publish a
roster of large capacity handguns, rifles, shotguns and feeding devices for those firearms, as those
weapons and devices are defined in Ch. 140, § 121. Ch. 140, § 131 3/4. The Secretary may amend
the roster upon his or her own initiative, upon the initiative of the Gun Control Advisory Board
3
under Ch. 140, § 131 1/2, or upon the petition of any person seeking to place a weapon on or
remove a weapon from the roster. Ch. 140, § 131 3/4.
New Jersey Large Capacity Feeding Devices
New Jersey prohibits the manufacture, transport, shipment, sale or disposal of large capacity
ammunition magazines, unless the magazine is intended to be used for authorized military or law
enforcement purposes. N.J. Rev. Stat § 2C:399h.
New Jersey law defines “large capacity
ammunition magazine” as a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more
than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly into a semiautomatic
firearm.
Section 2C:391y
New York Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device
It is a class D felony to manufacture, transport, dispose of, or possess a large capacity ammunition
feeding device, which N.Y. Penal Law § 265.00(23) defines as "a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip,
or similar device" manufactured after September 13, 1994, "that has a capacity of, or that can be
readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition." Section 265.02.
States where stun devices are legal but with some restrictions:
Connecticut Title
53 Chapter 943 Sec. 53206.
Legal for home use, carrying prohibited.
Florida 790.01
Legal, subject to restrictions.
Indiana IC
354118
Legal, subject to restrictions.
North Carolina
§ 14269
Legal, subject to restrictions.
North Dakota 62.10101.
& 62.10402.
Legal, subject to restrictions.
Ohio
§ 2923.11 Some Ohio cities have laws concerning Stun Devices.
Legal, subject to restrictions.
States where stun devices are illegal:
Hawaii §
13416
Illinois 720
ILCS 5/241
Massachusetts Chapter
140: Section 131J
Michigan 750.224a
New Jersey 2C:
393.
4
New York §
265.01
Rhode Island §
114742
Wisconsin 941.295
Cities where stun devices are illegal:
Annapolis, MD Municipal Code 1.44.070
Baltimore, MD City
Code 115
Baltimore County, MD Co. Code 172104
District of Columbia DC Code § 72501.01.
Howard County, MD Sec.
8.404
New York City, NY Administrative
Code 10135
Philadelphia, PA Ordinance.
Statute 10825
States Where Chemical Sprays are Restricted or Have Some Restrictions
Airports/Airlines: Federal Law forbids carrying any type of tear gas or pepper sprays on airplanes
or in the security area of an airport.
Alaska: 11.81.900 (a)(18) not designed to cause death or serious physical injury .... 11.61.210
(a)(6) prohibits the sale of a defensive weapon to a person under 18 years of age.
Arkansas: 573124
legal to possess “… a small container of tear gas or pepper spray to be
used for selfdefense
purposes only, but the capacity of the cartridge or container shall not exceed
one hundred fifty cubic centimeters (150cc)”
California: Penal Code 12403.7 Misuse of tear gas in California comes with state penalties of up
to a $1000 fine and/or up to three years in prison Minors, drug addicts or persons convicted of
felonies, assault or misuse of tear gas are legally prohibited from possessing tear gas. To be legally
purchased, possessed or used in California, any canister must have a label that says "WARNING:
The use of this substance or device for any purpose other than selfdefense
is a crime under the law.
The contents are dangeroususe
with care." The maximum legal net weight for a canister is 2.5
ounces, or 70 grams of OC.
DC: 72502.14
Selfdefense
sprays are lawful if used or possessed by a person 18 or over “in the
exercise of reasonable force in defense of the person or the person’s property only if it is propelled
from an aerosol container, labeled with or accompanied by clearly written instructions as to its use,
and dated to indicate its anticipated useful life.” When purchasing such a spray, the buyer must
complete a standard registration form, and the vendor must forward the form to the Metropolitan
Police Department.
Hawaii: Only OC products are legal for use by or sale to persons 18 and over. There is a ½ ounce
size restriction and there are licensing requirements.
Illinois: 720 ILCS 5/241
The use of a product “…containing a nonlethal
noxious liquid gas or
substance designed solely for personal defense carried by a person 18 years of age or older”
Massachusetts: Chapter 140, Section 121 Massachusetts residents may only purchase defense
sprays from licensed Firearms Dealers in that state. The licensing authority is the local chief of
police or other persons authorized by the locality.
5
Michigan: 750.224d. OC Pepper Spray (this is our type of pepper spray) can be no stronger then a
2% concentrate. CS is the only Tear Gas accepted and can be no larger then 35 grams per can. No
combination spray allowed.
Minnesota: 624.731 in the exercise of reasonable force and defense of the person or the person’s
property only if it is propelled from an aerosol container, labeled with or accompanied by clearly
written instructions as to its use, and dated to indicate its anticipated useful life. Possession
including giving municipalities the power, if they so elect, to license the retail sellers of selfdefense
sprays.
Nevada: 202.370 Thru 202.440 Nevada law prohibits possession of tear gas weapons, except for
CS by adult (no felons) with no more than 2 fluid ounces in the form of an aerosol spray “which is
designed and intended for use as an instrument of selfdefense”.
New Jersey: 2C:396i
Any nonfelon
18 or over may possess for the purpose of selfdefense
“one
pocketsized
device which contains and releases not more than threequarters
of an ounce of
chemical substance not ordinarily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury, but
rather is intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or disability through being vaporized or
otherwise dispensed in the air”.
New York: Section 265.25 (14) and (15) The possession of “selfdefense
sprays” by persons who
are not felons or who have been convicted of an assault, 18 or over for the protection of person or
property and its otherwise lawful use is legal. “Selfdefense
spray” is defined as “a pocket sized
spray device which contains and releases a chemical or organic substance which is intended to
produce temporary physical discomfort or disability through being vaporized or otherwise
dispensed in the air or any like device containing tear gas, pepper spray or similar disabling agent”.
There are certain labeling requirements. Sales require both a seller’s license and the completion by
a purchaser of a registration form. New York residents may only purchase defense sprays from
licensed Firearms Dealers or licensed Pharmacists in that state. No more than two sprays may be
sold at any one time to a single purchaser.
North Carolina: 14401.6.
Possession and use of selfdefense
sprays is lawful for non felons so
long as the device does not exceed 150 cubic centimeters (150cc).
South Carolina: 1623470
It is lawful to possess a container not exceeding fifty cubic centimeters
(50cc) containing tear gas “for selfdefense
purposes only”.
Wisconsin: 941.26 and Justice Regulations 14.01 UV Dye or combination sprays are not
permissible. A “device or container that contains a combination of oleoresin of capsicum and inert
ingredients” is permissible. By regulation, OC products with a maximum OC concentration of 10%
and weight range of oleoresin of capsicum and inert ingredients of 1560
grams is authorized.
Further, the product can not be camouflaged, and must have a safety feature designed to prevent
accidental discharge. In addition there are certain labeling requirements.

"It is missing the point to believe that the 'ability to fight' is simply about defeating your enemy.
It is not in defeating your enemies; It's about the strategy of killing the evil of one man to give life to ten thousand" ~Yagyu Munenori


#3 Juggernaut

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 12:35 PM

From Wraithmaker


Is the Wraithmaker legal in the US?

The Wraithmaker is legal in most states. It is the purchasers responsibility to check state a local laws regarding high capacity magazines before ordering. We only ship to states where legal. No drums or magazines over 10 rounds shipped to NJ, CA, MA, NYC, DC or MD.



Do you have B.A.T.F. approval?

Yes. This magazine complies with ATF Reg.concerning L.C.A.F.D.'s


"It is missing the point to believe that the 'ability to fight' is simply about defeating your enemy.
It is not in defeating your enemies; It's about the strategy of killing the evil of one man to give life to ten thousand" ~Yagyu Munenori


#4 Juggernaut

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 12:38 PM

:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

"It is missing the point to believe that the 'ability to fight' is simply about defeating your enemy.
It is not in defeating your enemies; It's about the strategy of killing the evil of one man to give life to ten thousand" ~Yagyu Munenori


#5 GySgt New River

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 08:09 PM

That damn fine, hard to read print again huh Juggs??
A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a
blank check made payable to 'The United States of America' for an amount
of 'up to and including their life.'-That is Honor

ega_kbar.gif
Gunnery Sergeant
Weapons and Tactics Training Program Chief
United States Marine Corps
2000-Present

#6 Juggernaut

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 08:16 PM

That damn fine, hard to read print again huh Juggs??

Cut 'n' Paste bro. I'm a Mod, Not your flippin' Editor or English Teacher.

"It is missing the point to believe that the 'ability to fight' is simply about defeating your enemy.
It is not in defeating your enemies; It's about the strategy of killing the evil of one man to give life to ten thousand" ~Yagyu Munenori


#7 CptBlk

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 11:12 PM

.

Edited by CptBlk, 18 July 2008 - 08:27 AM.


#8 Juggernaut

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Posted 17 July 2008 - 11:15 PM

Out of curiosity, when are the MD drums supposed to ship?


please read the top two stickies in the MD arms section.....

"It is missing the point to believe that the 'ability to fight' is simply about defeating your enemy.
It is not in defeating your enemies; It's about the strategy of killing the evil of one man to give life to ten thousand" ~Yagyu Munenori


#9 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 30 September 2008 - 08:29 AM

HK Fan AZ?

:unsure:
Posted Image

- Bolt & Carrier Mods and Polishing > http://www.Cobras-Custom.com <
Details on Cobra's Custom ReliabilitySystem >> http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/90388-new-ak-saiga-vepr-bolt-and-trigger-service-no-extra-waiting/
Our Sub Forum - COBRA'S CUSTOM LLC
IMPROVISE! ADAPT! OVERCOME!

#10 HK Fan AZ

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 03:31 AM

What I wanted to ask, which some weird IPS error prevented me from saying :P was the following:

The FFL who transferred my S-12 to me was telling me that the gun and the drum mags are legal to own, but the second you combine the two, the drum+gun combo is potentially a Destructive Device, and then covered under NFA. He told me this after we got into a discussion about semi-auto shotguns, and his interest in why I chose the S-12 over a Benelli or any other semi-auto, and at one point, I mentioned the availability of the drums, and the fact that I would really like to buy one at some point.

It didn't really sound right to me, but I just wanted to ask the experts here to see if it was true or not, since if what he said was true, it's a rather serious offense. I read the FAQ, and as written, it seems to neither validate nor disprove his assertion, since the FAQ seems to focus on the ownership of the drum as opposed to the usage of it - I apologize if I am merely misreading it.

He was mentioning USAS-12 and Streetsweepers as the precedents, but I was pretty sure that the ATF went after those two firearms individually by name, and not through some sort of broad-sweeping legislative decision, mainly due to the AWB-mentaltity of the time, and the fact that they came with "hi-cap" mags right out of the box and were not "sporting" firearms, so the ATF placed them under the NFA? I'm not the most knowledgeable person on NFA items, but I remember someone telling me that was what happened...

Anyway, thanks! :D

Edited by HK Fan AZ, 01 October 2008 - 03:38 AM.

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#11 Virtuoso

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 03:56 AM

What I wanted to ask, which some weird IPS error prevented me from saying :P was the following:

The FFL who transferred my S-12 to me was telling me that the gun and the drum mags are legal to own, but the second you combine the two, the drum+gun combo is potentially a Destructive Device, and then covered under NFA. He told me this after we got into a discussion about semi-auto shotguns, and his interest in why I chose the S-12 over a Benelli or any other semi-auto, and at one point, I mentioned the availability of the drums, and the fact that I would really like to buy one at some point.

It didn't really sound right to me, but I just wanted to ask the experts here to see if it was true or not, since if what he said was true, it's a rather serious offense. I read the FAQ, and as written, it seems to neither validate nor disprove his assertion, since the FAQ seems to focus on the ownership of the drum as opposed to the usage of it - I apologize if I am merely misreading it.

He was mentioning USAS-12 and Streetsweepers as the precedents, but I was pretty sure that the ATF went after those two firearms individually by name, and not through some sort of broad-sweeping legislative decision, mainly due to the AWB-mentaltity of the time, and the fact that they came with "hi-cap" mags right out of the box and were not "sporting" firearms, so the ATF placed them under the NFA? I'm not the most knowledgeable person on NFA items, but I remember someone telling me that was what happened...

Anyway, thanks! :D


Yeah, hes completely wrong. There would be no point in owning a drum if it were illegal to combine with the gun. Guns such the street sweeper were outlawed by name and labelled as DDs, however I believe this is primarily due to the integrated nature of the drum. A saiga-12 has as much sporting purpose as any other semi-automatic gun, and the drum is just an extended capacity magazine (which is perfectly legal). The BATF typically won't outlaw just a magazine (I don't even think they can).
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#12 johnyjackson

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 01:23 PM

What I wanted to ask, which some weird IPS error prevented me from saying :P was the following:

The FFL who transferred my S-12 to me was telling me that the gun and the drum mags are legal to own, but the second you combine the two, the drum+gun combo is potentially a Destructive Device, and then covered under NFA. He told me this after we got into a discussion about semi-auto shotguns, and his interest in why I chose the S-12 over a Benelli or any other semi-auto, and at one point, I mentioned the availability of the drums, and the fact that I would really like to buy one at some point.

It didn't really sound right to me, but I just wanted to ask the experts here to see if it was true or not, since if what he said was true, it's a rather serious offense. I read the FAQ, and as written, it seems to neither validate nor disprove his assertion, since the FAQ seems to focus on the ownership of the drum as opposed to the usage of it - I apologize if I am merely misreading it.

He was mentioning USAS-12 and Streetsweepers as the precedents, but I was pretty sure that the ATF went after those two firearms individually by name, and not through some sort of broad-sweeping legislative decision, mainly due to the AWB-mentaltity of the time, and the fact that they came with "hi-cap" mags right out of the box and were not "sporting" firearms, so the ATF placed them under the NFA? I'm not the most knowledgeable person on NFA items, but I remember someone telling me that was what happened...

Anyway, thanks! :D


Yeah, hes completely wrong. There would be no point in owning a drum if it were illegal to combine with the gun. Guns such the street sweeper were outlawed by name and labelled as DDs, however I believe this is primarily due to the integrated nature of the drum. A saiga-12 has as much sporting purpose as any other semi-automatic gun, and the drum is just an extended capacity magazine (which is perfectly legal). The BATF typically won't outlaw just a magazine (I don't even think they can).

Don't ever assume the BTAF won't outlaw drums, or anything else related to firearms, for that matter. There is a good chance we will be in for a hard time the next four years. Congress, the Senate, and the president (with a vice president worse then Obama on guns) all democraticly controlled, could be running the show. The second ammendment is going to get bombarded by liberal bills all looking to erode our right to own guns. As of now it's not on the front burner but after the economy gets turned around and Iraq is on its own, look out gun owners!!!

#13 oak

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Posted 26 October 2008 - 01:40 PM

......

Edited by oak, 26 October 2008 - 01:41 PM.

They're coming. Are you ready?

#14 mr_blove

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 11:43 PM

So if I understand correctly these drums will work properly straight out of the box on any saiga12? Because I would love to own a couple.
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#15 doublehorse

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 01:28 AM

What covers, bags, etc. are good to use for the drum?

#16 itento

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Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:30 PM

Quick question: What is the deminsion from bottom of receiver to bottom of magazine?

#17 Mike75

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 04:23 PM

:super:

Edited by Mike75, 14 January 2009 - 05:49 AM.


#18 BEACH HUNTER

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 08:59 PM

I WOULD LIKE TO GET A 20RND DRUM OR SOME 10-12 RND MAGS....I LIVE IN MASS. BUT HAVE MY CLASS "A" LARGE CAP. C.C.L I READ IN EARLYER POST THAT I COULD OWN THE DRUM...I KNOW ALL 10 RND MAGS ARE OK IN MASS. BUT ALOT OF COMPANY'S WON'T SHIP THEM TO ME?? CAN SOME ONE LET ME KNOW HOW TO GET MY 20 RND DRUM OR SOME GOOD 10 RND MAGS?? THANKS.

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#19 Capt_bob

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 02:59 PM

If you live in mass come to RI and buy them. Pay cash. They don't ask you where you live....


I WOULD LIKE TO GET A 20RND DRUM OR SOME 10-12 RND MAGS....I LIVE IN MASS. BUT HAVE MY CLASS "A" LARGE CAP. C.C.L I READ IN EARLYER POST THAT I COULD OWN THE DRUM...I KNOW ALL 10 RND MAGS ARE OK IN MASS. BUT ALOT OF COMPANY'S WON'T SHIP THEM TO ME?? CAN SOME ONE LET ME KNOW HOW TO GET MY 20 RND DRUM OR SOME GOOD 10 RND MAGS?? THANKS.



#20 S.A.C. Sucks

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 11:09 PM

These drums are great. They do require some fitting, but its pretty well documented what to do with what comes with the drum and the video on the mfgs website. If you have any issues with FTE or FTF, then work those out first before using a drum like this.


#21 BronCobraJet

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Posted 04 April 2009 - 08:06 AM

What I wanted to ask, which some weird IPS error prevented me from saying :P was the following:

The FFL who transferred my S-12 to me was telling me that the gun and the drum mags are legal to own, but the second you combine the two, the drum+gun combo is potentially a Destructive Device, and then covered under NFA. He told me this after we got into a discussion about semi-auto shotguns, and his interest in why I chose the S-12 over a Benelli or any other semi-auto, and at one point, I mentioned the availability of the drums, and the fact that I would really like to buy one at some point.

It didn't really sound right to me, but I just wanted to ask the experts here to see if it was true or not, since if what he said was true, it's a rather serious offense. I read the FAQ, and as written, it seems to neither validate nor disprove his assertion, since the FAQ seems to focus on the ownership of the drum as opposed to the usage of it - I apologize if I am merely misreading it.

He was mentioning USAS-12 and Streetsweepers as the precedents, but I was pretty sure that the ATF went after those two firearms individually by name, and not through some sort of broad-sweeping legislative decision, mainly due to the AWB-mentaltity of the time, and the fact that they came with "hi-cap" mags right out of the box and were not "sporting" firearms, so the ATF placed them under the NFA? I'm not the most knowledgeable person on NFA items, but I remember someone telling me that was what happened...

Anyway, thanks! :D


Yeah, hes completely wrong. There would be no point in owning a drum if it were illegal to combine with the gun. Guns such the street sweeper were outlawed by name and labelled as DDs, however I believe this is primarily due to the integrated nature of the drum. A saiga-12 has as much sporting purpose as any other semi-automatic gun, and the drum is just an extended capacity magazine (which is perfectly legal). The BATF typically won't outlaw just a magazine (I don't even think they can).

The USAS-12 and StreetSweeper were individually named as Destructive Devices. The ban was not a blanket ban, so it only pertains to them. The only thing illegal on the USAS-12 is the barrel. Every thing else on or about the gun is legal. The barrel is 18" long, so that isn't the issue. The issue is, Congress declared that the BORE of the shotgun was greater than 1/2", and that "it served no suitable sporting purpose". That's IT. They could say that about ANY 12 Gauge shotgun actually. If you purchased one before it was declared a Destructive Device, you had the option to register it with the ATF and have it grandfathered, however, you could not give it to anyone or sell it to anyone unless it was to a Class 3 Destructive Device licensed dealer. It can't be passed down in the family after you die, or sold to Joe Blow. You had to register it with the ATF and your local police force with copies of a color photo of yourself and fingerprints, or be subjected to fines and confiscation of it and your other weapons, as it was illegal to own, and you would be classified a felon. Ask me how I know.
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#22 low_lead

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Posted 08 April 2009 - 02:53 PM

The USAS-12 and StreetSweeper were individually named as Destructive Devices. The ban was not a blanket ban, so it only pertains to them. The only thing illegal on the USAS-12 is the barrel. Every thing else on or about the gun is legal. The barrel is 18" long, so that isn't the issue. The issue is, Congress declared that the BORE of the shotgun was greater than 1/2", and that "it served no suitable sporting purpose". That's IT. They could say that about ANY 12 Gauge shotgun actually. If you purchased one before it was declared a Destructive Device, you had the option to register it with the ATF and have it grandfathered, however, you could not give it to anyone or sell it to anyone unless it was to a Class 3 Destructive Device licensed dealer. It can't be passed down in the family after you die, or sold to Joe Blow. You had to register it with the ATF and your local police force with copies of a color photo of yourself and fingerprints, or be subjected to fines and confiscation of it and your other weapons, as it was illegal to own, and you would be classified a felon. Ask me how I know.


Actually, the part about "you could not give it to anyone or sell it to anyone unless it was to a Class 3 Destructive Device licensed dealer. It can't be passed down in the family after you die, or sold to Joe Blow" is not true.

Anyone who has ANY Destructive Device can sell it THROUGH a DD dealer, and if you have a SOT (for machine guns, etc.) you can transfer a few each year without paying the DD tax). If you want to pay the $200 tax, fill out the paperwork, and wait a couple of months you CAN buy a USAS-12 or StreetSweeper. If you want a StreetSweeper, I have a bud that has 3 for sale. $1700 each, plus NFA stamp.


So tell me; How do you know?

Edited by low_lead, 08 April 2009 - 02:57 PM.


#23 NorthernBornRebel

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 02:07 PM

Are there any folding stocks other than the AR15 style collapsible folders that can be folded and locked with the drum in place?

#24 BobAsh

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 02:16 PM

It would depend on how far back you mount the hinge. Most folders are about the same length.

Also, they don't really "lock" in the closed position.
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#25 bas0301

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 07:29 AM

Any thing out there for the saiga-12 with larger then 20 rnd capacity?
And/or any word on the 20 rnd stick mag ?

#26 Ragnar Danneskjöld

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Posted 01 October 2009 - 08:27 PM

Any thing out there for the saiga-12 with larger then 20 rnd capacity?
And/or any word on the 20 rnd stick mag ?


Alliance has their 30 round Raithmaker drum for sale:

http://www.alliancea...nt30rddrum.aspx

Nevertheless, I just order the MD Arms 20 round drum with clear back and the Gunfixr Plug.

Edited by Ragnar Danneskjöld, 01 October 2009 - 08:32 PM.

Ever crossed the road and looked the wrong way? and hey presto a car's nearly on ya, so what do you do? You freeze. And your life doesn't flash before your eyes, 'cause you're too fuckin' scared to think - you just freeze, and pull a stupid face. The pikey didn't - why? Because he had plans on running the car over.

Here is your link to Saiga Forum bliss.
http://forum.saiga-1...ea=ignoredusers

#27 Ragnar Danneskjöld

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Posted 12 October 2009 - 09:10 PM


Any thing out there for the saiga-12 with larger then 20 rnd capacity?
And/or any word on the 20 rnd stick mag ?


Alliance has their 30 round Raithmaker drum for sale:

http://www.alliancea...nt30rddrum.aspx

Nevertheless, I just order the MD Arms 20 round drum with clear back and the Gunfixr Plug.


...which have arrived, today! HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH! Plug is installed, along with a U.S. made puck. However, tonight's Bordeaux is a little too good to attempt the drum fit. Maybe this weekend.

Edited by Ragnar Danneskjöld, 12 October 2009 - 09:12 PM.

Ever crossed the road and looked the wrong way? and hey presto a car's nearly on ya, so what do you do? You freeze. And your life doesn't flash before your eyes, 'cause you're too fuckin' scared to think - you just freeze, and pull a stupid face. The pikey didn't - why? Because he had plans on running the car over.

Here is your link to Saiga Forum bliss.
http://forum.saiga-1...ea=ignoredusers

#28 kencrawleysc

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 09:29 AM

Wraithmaker

Why did I have to open that link and see such a beautiful piece of machinery?

Has anyone sprung for one? I don't care if you haven't shot it. Just, wow. That thing just looks soo ... Tony.

Ken

#29 aresv

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 01:54 PM

Has anyone sprung for one? I don't care if you haven't shot it. Just, wow. That thing just looks soo ... Tony.


Yeah, Corbra has tested them extensively. They're very effective. This door hasn't budged an inch!

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#30 BpS12

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Posted 03 December 2009 - 07:01 PM

What are the dimensions of the MD drum?
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