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20 Rd Drum FAQs

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From MD Arms

 

 

Frequently Asked Questions

 

Q: Is this drum legal to own?

 

A: Federal -There are no federal laws against owning or using this magazine at 20rd capacity. There are no federal permits or fees required or associated with this magazine.

 

State & Local - This 20rd magazine is legal to own in most states and areas. Even in most of the 20rd capacity restricted areas, except California, you can still purchase a drum with a capacity limited to the capacity limit of your state or area. Below is a list of restricted areas in 20rd capacity. Followed by the restricted state or area is the capacity limits for that location in (XXrds). If you order a mag from a restricted state or area it will be shipped with a capacity limit of (XXrds) for your area. Also please note that the capacity limit is NOT going to be easily or readily convertible to a 20rd capacity. Just to make it clear, extreme measures will be made by MD Arms, Ltd to prevent convertibility. And any attempt to do so will be at the sole responsibility of the person attempting such in the terms of legal liability and unit damages. Please don't order from a 20rd capacity restricted state or area with the hopes of a possibility of getting such. Although we are providing this information, it is the buyer responsibility to maintain changing information in there own local laws and legality of owning this item in your area.

 

The restricted states and areas in a 20rd capacity are as follows:

 

 

 

Restricted in the State of:

 

New York (10rds)

 

New Jersey (6rds)

 

California (No detachable mags on a semi-automatic shotgun allowed in the state)

 

Massachusetts (5rds) (20rds with a Massachusetts's state issued Class A or B Right to Carry Permit)

 

 

 

Restricted in The City of:

 

Aurora, Illinois (15rds)

 

Chicago, Illinois (12rds)

 

Franklin Park, Illinois (16rds)

 

Oak Park, Illinois (10rds)

 

 

 

If you are curious about your state or local laws, you can view up to date information anytime from this link:

 

www.handgunlaw.us/documents/NoHiCapChemSpray.pdf

 

 

 

No exception will be made on shipping a 20rd capacity drum to restricted states or areas. If you have a special right to own such in restricted states or areas due to occupation or licence, proof must be provided in writing and then verified by MD Arms, Ltd. Absolutely No Exceptions!

 

 

 

Q: Is this magazine 922r compliant?

 

A: Yes, every component of this magazine is made in the United States of America. It is compliant and legal with ANY Saiga-12 firearm. It counts as 3 US parts in the Federal guidelines on 922r compliant.

 

 

 

Q: Do you ship outside of the United States?

 

A: At this time we only offer sales to the 50 States. We are looking into the legalities and permits involved in shipping this item out of country. But for now, No.

 

Product Overview:

 

 

 

Material, Components, and Features:

 

Q: What is it made from?

 

A: While most similar products are made from glass filled nylon, MD Arms went a step above and made our drum out of glass filled polyphthalamide with steel inserts. Polyphthalamide is in the nylon family but is not nylon. It outperforms nylon in strength, toughness, and durability. It retains these properties in humanly unbearable hot and cold conditions. The material is commonly used to replace metal components. The back cover plate is a transparent polycarbonate and allows you to easily see the drum's ammo capacity. The spring is made of 302 stainless steel. Also the tension of the spring is adjustable to meet your specific demands on ammo weight differences. The feed-lips are made of black-oxide coated spring steel.

 

 

 

Q: How much does the drum weigh?

 

A: The drum is light weight at around 1.75 lbs. empty.

 

 

 

Q: Will this drum fit my Saiga-12?

 

A: Our drum will fit any model Saiga-12 in the United States, factory or converted.

 

 

 

Q: Is the feed angle the same as the factory mags?

 

A: We took great care and concern in making sure our drums have the same feed angle in the chamber as factory mags, to provide the best in reliability.

 

 

 

Q: Does this drum take all 2 3/4 inch 12ga rounds? 3 inch rounds?

 

A: No. Our mag will take the very most of 2 3/4 inch rounds up to 2.40 inches in length. Some 2 3/4 inch rounds such as roll crimped Wolf and steel cased Silver Bear or too long to fit at 2.50 inches or 2 1/2 inches. This drum will not accept 3 inch mag rounds and can in no way be modified to fit them.

 

 

 

Q: Can this drum be loaded on a closed bolt at full capacity?

 

A: No. Our drum cannot be loaded on a closed bolt at 20rd capacity. It can be loaded on a closed bolt at 19rd capacity.

 

 

 

Q: Will this drum work with my after market Warfield Armory, Last Round Bolt Hold Open?

 

A: While we currently don't have a way to make our drum active Warfield Armory's LRBHO, our drum can be modified to fit a Saiga-12 with the after market device installed without effecting any function of the drum. You would do this the same way you have done your other mags, by removing the same material off the tower. (this info only concerns those that have this after market device installed)

 

By ordering you understand and agree to all terms and condition listed herein.

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From Wraithmaker

 

 

Is the Wraithmaker legal in the US?

The Wraithmaker is legal in most states
. It is the purchasers responsibility to check state a local laws regarding high capacity magazines before ordering. We only ship to states where legal. No drums or magazines over 10 rounds shipped to NJ, CA, MA, NYC, DC or MD.

 

 

Do you have B.A.T.F. approval?

Yes
. This magazine complies with ATF Reg.concerning L.C.A.F.D.'s

 

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That damn fine, hard to read print again huh Juggs??

Cut 'n' Paste bro. I'm a Mod, Not your flippin' Editor or English Teacher.

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Out of curiosity, when are the MD drums supposed to ship?

 

please read the top two stickies in the MD arms section.....

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What I wanted to ask, which some weird IPS error prevented me from saying :P was the following:

 

The FFL who transferred my S-12 to me was telling me that the gun and the drum mags are legal to own, but the second you combine the two, the drum+gun combo is potentially a Destructive Device, and then covered under NFA. He told me this after we got into a discussion about semi-auto shotguns, and his interest in why I chose the S-12 over a Benelli or any other semi-auto, and at one point, I mentioned the availability of the drums, and the fact that I would really like to buy one at some point.

 

It didn't really sound right to me, but I just wanted to ask the experts here to see if it was true or not, since if what he said was true, it's a rather serious offense. I read the FAQ, and as written, it seems to neither validate nor disprove his assertion, since the FAQ seems to focus on the ownership of the drum as opposed to the usage of it - I apologize if I am merely misreading it.

 

He was mentioning USAS-12 and Streetsweepers as the precedents, but I was pretty sure that the ATF went after those two firearms individually by name, and not through some sort of broad-sweeping legislative decision, mainly due to the AWB-mentaltity of the time, and the fact that they came with "hi-cap" mags right out of the box and were not "sporting" firearms, so the ATF placed them under the NFA? I'm not the most knowledgeable person on NFA items, but I remember someone telling me that was what happened...

 

Anyway, thanks! :D

Edited by HK Fan AZ
  • Like 1

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What I wanted to ask, which some weird IPS error prevented me from saying :P was the following:

 

The FFL who transferred my S-12 to me was telling me that the gun and the drum mags are legal to own, but the second you combine the two, the drum+gun combo is potentially a Destructive Device, and then covered under NFA. He told me this after we got into a discussion about semi-auto shotguns, and his interest in why I chose the S-12 over a Benelli or any other semi-auto, and at one point, I mentioned the availability of the drums, and the fact that I would really like to buy one at some point.

 

It didn't really sound right to me, but I just wanted to ask the experts here to see if it was true or not, since if what he said was true, it's a rather serious offense. I read the FAQ, and as written, it seems to neither validate nor disprove his assertion, since the FAQ seems to focus on the ownership of the drum as opposed to the usage of it - I apologize if I am merely misreading it.

 

He was mentioning USAS-12 and Streetsweepers as the precedents, but I was pretty sure that the ATF went after those two firearms individually by name, and not through some sort of broad-sweeping legislative decision, mainly due to the AWB-mentaltity of the time, and the fact that they came with "hi-cap" mags right out of the box and were not "sporting" firearms, so the ATF placed them under the NFA? I'm not the most knowledgeable person on NFA items, but I remember someone telling me that was what happened...

 

Anyway, thanks! :D

 

Yeah, hes completely wrong. There would be no point in owning a drum if it were illegal to combine with the gun. Guns such the street sweeper were outlawed by name and labelled as DDs, however I believe this is primarily due to the integrated nature of the drum. A saiga-12 has as much sporting purpose as any other semi-automatic gun, and the drum is just an extended capacity magazine (which is perfectly legal). The BATF typically won't outlaw just a magazine (I don't even think they can).

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What I wanted to ask, which some weird IPS error prevented me from saying :P was the following:

 

The FFL who transferred my S-12 to me was telling me that the gun and the drum mags are legal to own, but the second you combine the two, the drum+gun combo is potentially a Destructive Device, and then covered under NFA. He told me this after we got into a discussion about semi-auto shotguns, and his interest in why I chose the S-12 over a Benelli or any other semi-auto, and at one point, I mentioned the availability of the drums, and the fact that I would really like to buy one at some point.

 

It didn't really sound right to me, but I just wanted to ask the experts here to see if it was true or not, since if what he said was true, it's a rather serious offense. I read the FAQ, and as written, it seems to neither validate nor disprove his assertion, since the FAQ seems to focus on the ownership of the drum as opposed to the usage of it - I apologize if I am merely misreading it.

 

He was mentioning USAS-12 and Streetsweepers as the precedents, but I was pretty sure that the ATF went after those two firearms individually by name, and not through some sort of broad-sweeping legislative decision, mainly due to the AWB-mentaltity of the time, and the fact that they came with "hi-cap" mags right out of the box and were not "sporting" firearms, so the ATF placed them under the NFA? I'm not the most knowledgeable person on NFA items, but I remember someone telling me that was what happened...

 

Anyway, thanks! :D

 

Yeah, hes completely wrong. There would be no point in owning a drum if it were illegal to combine with the gun. Guns such the street sweeper were outlawed by name and labelled as DDs, however I believe this is primarily due to the integrated nature of the drum. A saiga-12 has as much sporting purpose as any other semi-automatic gun, and the drum is just an extended capacity magazine (which is perfectly legal). The BATF typically won't outlaw just a magazine (I don't even think they can).

Don't ever assume the BTAF won't outlaw drums, or anything else related to firearms, for that matter. There is a good chance we will be in for a hard time the next four years. Congress, the Senate, and the president (with a vice president worse then Obama on guns) all democraticly controlled, could be running the show. The second ammendment is going to get bombarded by liberal bills all looking to erode our right to own guns. As of now it's not on the front burner but after the economy gets turned around and Iraq is on its own, look out gun owners!!!

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So if I understand correctly these drums will work properly straight out of the box on any saiga12? Because I would love to own a couple.

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I WOULD LIKE TO GET A 20RND DRUM OR SOME 10-12 RND MAGS....I LIVE IN MASS. BUT HAVE MY CLASS "A" LARGE CAP. C.C.L I READ IN EARLYER POST THAT I COULD OWN THE DRUM...I KNOW ALL 10 RND MAGS ARE OK IN MASS. BUT ALOT OF COMPANY'S WON'T SHIP THEM TO ME?? CAN SOME ONE LET ME KNOW HOW TO GET MY 20 RND DRUM OR SOME GOOD 10 RND MAGS?? THANKS.

post-15231-1232071295_thumb.jpg

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If you live in mass come to RI and buy them. Pay cash. They don't ask you where you live....

 

 

I WOULD LIKE TO GET A 20RND DRUM OR SOME 10-12 RND MAGS....I LIVE IN MASS. BUT HAVE MY CLASS "A" LARGE CAP. C.C.L I READ IN EARLYER POST THAT I COULD OWN THE DRUM...I KNOW ALL 10 RND MAGS ARE OK IN MASS. BUT ALOT OF COMPANY'S WON'T SHIP THEM TO ME?? CAN SOME ONE LET ME KNOW HOW TO GET MY 20 RND DRUM OR SOME GOOD 10 RND MAGS?? THANKS.

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These drums are great. They do require some fitting, but its pretty well documented what to do with what comes with the drum and the video on the mfgs website. If you have any issues with FTE or FTF, then work those out first before using a drum like this.

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What I wanted to ask, which some weird IPS error prevented me from saying :P was the following:

 

The FFL who transferred my S-12 to me was telling me that the gun and the drum mags are legal to own, but the second you combine the two, the drum+gun combo is potentially a Destructive Device, and then covered under NFA. He told me this after we got into a discussion about semi-auto shotguns, and his interest in why I chose the S-12 over a Benelli or any other semi-auto, and at one point, I mentioned the availability of the drums, and the fact that I would really like to buy one at some point.

 

It didn't really sound right to me, but I just wanted to ask the experts here to see if it was true or not, since if what he said was true, it's a rather serious offense. I read the FAQ, and as written, it seems to neither validate nor disprove his assertion, since the FAQ seems to focus on the ownership of the drum as opposed to the usage of it - I apologize if I am merely misreading it.

 

He was mentioning USAS-12 and Streetsweepers as the precedents, but I was pretty sure that the ATF went after those two firearms individually by name, and not through some sort of broad-sweeping legislative decision, mainly due to the AWB-mentaltity of the time, and the fact that they came with "hi-cap" mags right out of the box and were not "sporting" firearms, so the ATF placed them under the NFA? I'm not the most knowledgeable person on NFA items, but I remember someone telling me that was what happened...

 

Anyway, thanks! :D

 

Yeah, hes completely wrong. There would be no point in owning a drum if it were illegal to combine with the gun. Guns such the street sweeper were outlawed by name and labelled as DDs, however I believe this is primarily due to the integrated nature of the drum. A saiga-12 has as much sporting purpose as any other semi-automatic gun, and the drum is just an extended capacity magazine (which is perfectly legal). The BATF typically won't outlaw just a magazine (I don't even think they can).

The USAS-12 and StreetSweeper were individually named as Destructive Devices. The ban was not a blanket ban, so it only pertains to them. The only thing illegal on the USAS-12 is the barrel. Every thing else on or about the gun is legal. The barrel is 18" long, so that isn't the issue. The issue is, Congress declared that the BORE of the shotgun was greater than 1/2", and that "it served no suitable sporting purpose". That's IT. They could say that about ANY 12 Gauge shotgun actually. If you purchased one before it was declared a Destructive Device, you had the option to register it with the ATF and have it grandfathered, however, you could not give it to anyone or sell it to anyone unless it was to a Class 3 Destructive Device licensed dealer. It can't be passed down in the family after you die, or sold to Joe Blow. You had to register it with the ATF and your local police force with copies of a color photo of yourself and fingerprints, or be subjected to fines and confiscation of it and your other weapons, as it was illegal to own, and you would be classified a felon. Ask me how I know.

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The USAS-12 and StreetSweeper were individually named as Destructive Devices. The ban was not a blanket ban, so it only pertains to them. The only thing illegal on the USAS-12 is the barrel. Every thing else on or about the gun is legal. The barrel is 18" long, so that isn't the issue. The issue is, Congress declared that the BORE of the shotgun was greater than 1/2", and that "it served no suitable sporting purpose". That's IT. They could say that about ANY 12 Gauge shotgun actually. If you purchased one before it was declared a Destructive Device, you had the option to register it with the ATF and have it grandfathered, however, you could not give it to anyone or sell it to anyone unless it was to a Class 3 Destructive Device licensed dealer. It can't be passed down in the family after you die, or sold to Joe Blow. You had to register it with the ATF and your local police force with copies of a color photo of yourself and fingerprints, or be subjected to fines and confiscation of it and your other weapons, as it was illegal to own, and you would be classified a felon. Ask me how I know.

 

Actually, the part about "you could not give it to anyone or sell it to anyone unless it was to a Class 3 Destructive Device licensed dealer. It can't be passed down in the family after you die, or sold to Joe Blow" is not true.

 

Anyone who has ANY Destructive Device can sell it THROUGH a DD dealer, and if you have a SOT (for machine guns, etc.) you can transfer a few each year without paying the DD tax). If you want to pay the $200 tax, fill out the paperwork, and wait a couple of months you CAN buy a USAS-12 or StreetSweeper. If you want a StreetSweeper, I have a bud that has 3 for sale. $1700 each, plus NFA stamp.

 

 

So tell me; How do you know?

Edited by low_lead

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It would depend on how far back you mount the hinge. Most folders are about the same length.

 

Also, they don't really "lock" in the closed position.

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Any thing out there for the saiga-12 with larger then 20 rnd capacity?

And/or any word on the 20 rnd stick mag ?

 

Alliance has their 30 round Raithmaker drum for sale:

 

http://www.alliancearmament.com/alliancearmament30rddrum.aspx

 

Nevertheless, I just order the MD Arms 20 round drum with clear back and the Gunfixr Plug.

Edited by Ragnar Danneskjöld

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Any thing out there for the saiga-12 with larger then 20 rnd capacity?

And/or any word on the 20 rnd stick mag ?

 

Alliance has their 30 round Raithmaker drum for sale:

 

http://www.alliancearmament.com/alliancearmament30rddrum.aspx

 

Nevertheless, I just order the MD Arms 20 round drum with clear back and the Gunfixr Plug.

 

...which have arrived, today! HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH! Plug is installed, along with a U.S. made puck. However, tonight's Bordeaux is a little too good to attempt the drum fit. Maybe this weekend.

Edited by Ragnar Danneskjöld

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Wraithmaker

 

Why did I have to open that link and see such a beautiful piece of machinery?

 

Has anyone sprung for one? I don't care if you haven't shot it. Just, wow. That thing just looks soo ... Tony.

 

Ken

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Has anyone sprung for one? I don't care if you haven't shot it. Just, wow. That thing just looks soo ... Tony.

 

Yeah, Corbra has tested them extensively. They're very effective. This door hasn't budged an inch!

 

post-1293-1203177722_thumb.jpg

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