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20 Rd Drum FAQs


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#61 Vintovka Dragunova

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 12:08 AM



Hey guys,

I have a promag 20rd drum and have a question. Probly pretty silly at that, but here it is. :) What is the lever on the back for?

its a load assist. basicly you push it in and slide it down. it supposedly lets you load easier by taking some tension of the top. my father in law has one and personally i dont notice much difference either way.



Thank you very much. :) I didn't notice any diffrence either and figured it served a more usefull purpose.



can we call you kensian? (prob spelled wrong lol)

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Полуавтоматическая винтовка Драгунова

Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova


#62 Spindrift

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:08 PM

I'm not trying to stir things up, BUT, (and I'm not a lawyer) the way I read this, with a semi auto shotgun in assachusetts, you can have five rounds MAX. In a pump or bolt action you can have TEN if you have a CLASS A license. STILL only five in the semi auto.


Section 121. As used in sections 122 to 131P, inclusive, the following words shall, unless the context clearly requires otherwise, have the following meanings:-

“Ammunition”, cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term “ammunition” shall also mean tear gas cartridges, chemical mace or any device or instrument which contains or emits a liquid, gas, powder or any other substance designed to incapacitate.

“Assault weapon”, shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70); (iv) Colt AR-15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9 and M-12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include: (i) any of the weapons, or replicas or duplicates of such weapons, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such weapons were manufactured on October 1, 1993; (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a semiautomatic assault weapon; (iv) any weapon that was manufactured prior to the year 1899; (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon; (vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

“Conviction”, a finding or verdict of guilt or a plea of guilty, whether or not final sentence is imposed.

“Firearm”, a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.

“Gunsmith”, any person who engages in the business of repairing, altering, cleaning, polishing, engraving, blueing or performing any mechanical operation on any firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun.

“Imitation firearm”, any weapon which is designed, manufactured or altered in such a way as to render it incapable of discharging a shot or bullet.

“Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; or (ii) a large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994. The term “large capacity feeding device” shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with,.22 caliber ammunition.

“Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device; (iii) that employs a rotating cylinder capable of accepting more than ten rounds of ammunition in a rifle or firearm and more than five shotgun shells in the case of a shotgun or firearm; or (iv) that is an assault weapon. The term “large capacity weapon” shall be a secondary designation and shall apply to a weapon in addition to its primary designation as a firearm, rifle or shotgun and shall not include: (i) any weapon that was manufactured in or prior to the year 1899; (ii) any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that is a single-shot weapon; (iv) any weapon that has been modified so as to render it permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a large capacity weapon; or (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable large capacity weapon.

“Length of barrel” or “barrel length”, that portion of a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun through which a shot or bullet is driven, guided or stabilized and shall include the chamber.

“Licensing authority”, the chief of police or the board or officer having control of the police in a city or town, or persons authorized by them.

“Machine gun”, a weapon of any description, by whatever name known, loaded or unloaded, from which a number of shots or bullets may be rapidly or automatically discharged by one continuous activation of the trigger, including a submachine gun.

“Purchase” and “sale” shall include exchange; the word “purchaser” shall include exchanger; and the verbs “sell” and “purchase”, in their different forms and tenses, shall include the verb exchange in its appropriate form and tense.

“Rifle”, a weapon having a rifled bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 16 inches and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.

“Sawed-off shotgun”, any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

“Semiautomatic”, capable of utilizing a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and requiring a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.

“Shotgun”, a weapon having a smooth bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 18 inches with an overall length equal to or greater than 26 inches, and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.

“Violent crime”, shall mean any crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year, or any act of juvenile delinquency involving the use or possession of a deadly weapon that would be punishable by imprisonment for such term if committed by an adult, that: (i) has as an element the use, attempted use or threatened use of physical force or a deadly weapon against the person of another; (ii) is burglary, extortion, arson or kidnapping; (iii) involves the use of explosives; or (iv) otherwise involves conduct that presents a serious risk of physical injury to another.

“Weapon”, any rifle, shotgun or firearm.

Where the local licensing authority has the power to issue licenses or cards under this chapter, but no such licensing authority exists, any resident or applicant may apply for such license or firearm identification card directly to the colonel of state police and said colonel shall for this purpose be the licensing authority.

The provisions of sections 122 to 129D, inclusive, and sections 131, 131A, 131B and 131E shall not apply to:

(A) any firearm, rifle or shotgun manufactured in or prior to the year 1899;

(B) any replica of any firearm, rifle or shotgun described in clause (A) if such replica: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; and

© manufacturers or wholesalers of firearms, rifles, shotguns or machine guns.


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#63 S-12 Pauly

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 10:01 PM

I figured it may be appropriate to post this here too for anyone stumbling around looking for the owner's manual.

Attached File  MD-20-1.JPG   577.72KB   83 downloads
Attached File  MD-20-2.JPG   708.48KB   97 downloads

Attached File  MD-20-3.JPG   761.13KB   87 downloads
Attached File  MD-20-4.JPG   850.94KB   52 downloads



The pics above are much larger when clicked on to enlarge, but I also hosted them on Photobucket in case people can't get to the forum hosted pics on their web devices.

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#64 Torqued

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:26 AM

I feel like my johnson has grown 3" since buying this drum.

#65 Vintovka Dragunova

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 07:35 PM

I feel like my johnson has grown 3" since buying this drum.

thats sad.

"Only the dead have seen the end of war"
 

Снайперская винтовка Драгунова

Полуавтоматическая винтовка Драгунова

Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova


#66 KevenW

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 05:28 AM

not really psl............we can like our gun stuff a lot..... it's ok to do so. Posted Image

#67 JohnInNH

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 12:39 PM

MD-20 Drum is BATF&E Famous: http://www.atf.gov/p...in-shotguns.pdf

See last pages..
Long distance the next best thing to being there.
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#68 Vintovka Dragunova

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 12:18 AM

not really psl............we can like our gun stuff a lot..... it's ok to do so. Posted Image

its just sad that it was only 3" . :lolol:

MD-20 Drum is BATF&E Famous: http://www.atf.gov/p...in-shotguns.pdf

See last pages..

yeah we know, thanks.

"Only the dead have seen the end of war"
 

Снайперская винтовка Драгунова

Полуавтоматическая винтовка Драгунова

Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova


#69 JohnInNH

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 05:21 PM


not really psl............we can like our gun stuff a lot..... it's ok to do so. Posted Image

its just sad that it was only 3" . :lolol:

MD-20 Drum is BATF&E Famous: http://www.atf.gov/p...in-shotguns.pdf

See last pages..

yeah we know, thanks.


I think the pictures came out well..Did the .gov take them or use HIS pictures ... makes ya wonder. LOL
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#70 taseal

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 05:10 PM

Anyone shoot the federal value pack from walmart with the md drum? I'm having serious fte issues. Regular magazines are no problem though.Might give the Remington value pack a try but aren't they pretty much identical quality?I did shoot some federal 00 LE and those shot fine...I have a converted saga with an autoplug. No matter how tight I adjusted the plug, I was still having fte. But like I said, federal LE 00 and the new Remington self defense ammo were no problem

#71 Dad2142Dad

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 06:33 PM

Anyone shoot the federal value pack from walmart with the md drum? I'm having serious fte issues. Regular magazines are no problem though.Might give the Remington value pack a try but aren't they pretty much identical quality?I did shoot some federal 00 LE and those shot fine...I have a converted saga with an autoplug. No matter how tight I adjusted the plug, I was still having fte. But like I said, federal LE 00 and the new Remington self defense ammo were no problem


I have run the Winchester universals and other crap low brass through mine. I do not have the auto plug, do have 3 ports. One thing I have noticed and it happened again at the range today. When some people shoot the Saiga, they do not give enough suport to the recoil. My son (Who got me started with these wonderful weapons) wanted to shoot mine today. I had just run a 10 round stick through no problems. He shot and four rounds in got a FTE, cleared it and pulled it tight and ran through the next six. He talked a little smack since I just finished my conversion. I was like Ok give me the MD-20, I shot straight through the 20 with no issue.

He has an auto plug around here somewhere. I'll give it a try and let you know.
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#72 Jeff G

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 09:56 PM

I got my MD-20 a few weeks ago for my conversion build. Like the feel alot. Might be too big to be practical. Might try out the Promag 12rd at a later date. Got mine for $80 before they raised the price to $120!!! :))

#73 sufi pirate

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 01:57 AM

Thanks for the Rio not work in MD20 drum info.
Trims orders until I get suitable stick mags.
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#74 cfish

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 09:12 AM

Anyone shoot the federal value pack from walmart with the md drum? I'm having serious fte issues. Regular magazines are no problem though.Might give the Remington value pack a try but aren't they pretty much identical quality?I did shoot some federal 00 LE and those shot fine...I have a converted saga with an autoplug. No matter how tight I adjusted the plug, I was still having fte. But like I said, federal LE 00 and the new Remington self defense ammo were no problem




I have run 10 fed value packs thru my MD drum with only 2 FTE's. Thats because my sone was shooting and was limp shouldering the gun after shooting three drums. I think recoil was starting to get to him. He was only 12 at the time!

#75 Louisville Glocker

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Posted 17 March 2011 - 10:23 AM

Just wanted to pass this along from the MD Arms website:

GOOD NEWS!

MD-20 Drums are back in stock! Pre-orders are shipping now.

Orders placed today could take up to 5 to 7 days to ship.


That makes me happy, because I placed a pre-order a couple weeks ago...yay.....good stuff should be in the mail soon!

NOTE: I'm not sure when that note appeared on their website, but I'm thinking in the last day or so.

#76 Louisville Glocker

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Posted 23 March 2011 - 10:31 PM

More good news. My drum arrived Monday! (Just got it today, because I was in NY). Popped it in my shotgun, and it locks in place! I haven't checked out the instructions vid that they refer me to on the website, but that is the fitting issue, right? No mods needed if it locks in?

Happy dog!

Now just gotta get to the range to test it out.....(2 AGP mags are in transit and should make it tomorrow via Fed Ex)...next, going to need some more ammo.

Just wanted to pass this along from the MD Arms website:

GOOD NEWS!

MD-20 Drums are back in stock! Pre-orders are shipping now.

Orders placed today could take up to 5 to 7 days to ship.


That makes me happy, because I placed a pre-order a couple weeks ago...yay.....good stuff should be in the mail soon!

NOTE: I'm not sure when that note appeared on their website, but I'm thinking in the last day or so.



#77 jmdove

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 01:02 PM

From MD Arms

REPLY: I take issue with a few things you have written. California law is NOT clear cut about the large cap mags. You CAN bring in a High cap parts KIT, but the danger here is that the moment you put it together, and your not a manufacturer, then you have broken CAL State law. However, there is nothing illegal about bringing a high cap kit in and modifying it to take only the legal limit. I have done that very thing to produce 10 round Thompson mags that look like 30 round mags because they were at one time. Permanent modification also DOES NOT mean that they can't be reconverted back to high cap if you ever leave California. It just means that you couldn't, in the field, easily convert it back to 30 round, or higher, mags. Rivets are the best for this and count as being permanent. Thus Cal state people can have a 20 round drum that is modified, permanently, only to 10 rounds. I have one and it wasn't that difficult. Of course, when I finally leave California and move to Nevada or Arizona, as I keep threatening my California lovin' wife that I will do, then all the Cal mutilated caps will definitely go back to high cap!
jmDove




Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Is this drum legal to own?

A: Federal -There are no federal laws against owning or using this magazine at 20rd capacity. There are no federal permits or fees required or associated with this magazine.

State & Local - This 20rd magazine is legal to own in most states and areas. Even in most of the 20rd capacity restricted areas, except California, you can still purchase a drum with a capacity limited to the capacity limit of your state or area. Below is a list of restricted areas in 20rd capacity. Followed by the restricted state or area is the capacity limits for that location in (XXrds). If you order a mag from a restricted state or area it will be shipped with a capacity limit of (XXrds) for your area. Also please note that the capacity limit is NOT going to be easily or readily convertible to a 20rd capacity. Just to make it clear, extreme measures will be made by MD Arms, Ltd to prevent convertibility. And any attempt to do so will be at the sole responsibility of the person attempting such in the terms of legal liability and unit damages. Please don't order from a 20rd capacity restricted state or area with the hopes of a possibility of getting such. Although we are providing this information, it is the buyer responsibility to maintain changing information in there own local laws and legality of owning this item in your area.

The restricted states and areas in a 20rd capacity are as follows:



Restricted in the State of:

New York (10rds)

New Jersey (6rds)

California (No detachable mags on a semi-automatic shotgun allowed in the state)

Massachusetts (5rds) (20rds with a Massachusetts's state issued Class A or B Right to Carry Permit)



Restricted in The City of:

Aurora, Illinois (15rds)

Chicago, Illinois (12rds)

Franklin Park, Illinois (16rds)

Oak Park, Illinois (10rds)



If you are curious about your state or local laws, you can view up to date information anytime from this link:

www.handgunlaw.us/documents/NoHiCapChemSpray.pdf



No exception will be made on shipping a 20rd capacity drum to restricted states or areas. If you have a special right to own such in restricted states or areas due to occupation or licence, proof must be provided in writing and then verified by MD Arms, Ltd. Absolutely No Exceptions!



Q: Is this magazine 922r compliant?

A: Yes, every component of this magazine is made in the United States of America. It is compliant and legal with ANY Saiga-12 firearm. It counts as 3 US parts in the Federal guidelines on 922r compliant.



Q: Do you ship outside of the United States?

A: At this time we only offer sales to the 50 States. We are looking into the legalities and permits involved in shipping this item out of country. But for now, No.

Product Overview:



Material, Components, and Features:

Q: What is it made from?

A: While most similar products are made from glass filled nylon, MD Arms went a step above and made our drum out of glass filled polyphthalamide with steel inserts. Polyphthalamide is in the nylon family but is not nylon. It outperforms nylon in strength, toughness, and durability. It retains these properties in humanly unbearable hot and cold conditions. The material is commonly used to replace metal components. The back cover plate is a transparent polycarbonate and allows you to easily see the drum's ammo capacity. The spring is made of 302 stainless steel. Also the tension of the spring is adjustable to meet your specific demands on ammo weight differences. The feed-lips are made of black-oxide coated spring steel.



Q: How much does the drum weigh?

A: The drum is light weight at around 1.75 lbs. empty.



Q: Will this drum fit my Saiga-12?

A: Our drum will fit any model Saiga-12 in the United States, factory or converted.



Q: Is the feed angle the same as the factory mags?

A: We took great care and concern in making sure our drums have the same feed angle in the chamber as factory mags, to provide the best in reliability.



Q: Does this drum take all 2 3/4 inch 12ga rounds? 3 inch rounds?

A: No. Our mag will take the very most of 2 3/4 inch rounds up to 2.40 inches in length. Some 2 3/4 inch rounds such as roll crimped Wolf and steel cased Silver Bear or too long to fit at 2.50 inches or 2 1/2 inches. This drum will not accept 3 inch mag rounds and can in no way be modified to fit them.



Q: Can this drum be loaded on a closed bolt at full capacity?

A: No. Our drum cannot be loaded on a closed bolt at 20rd capacity. It can be loaded on a closed bolt at 19rd capacity.



Q: Will this drum work with my after market Warfield Armory, Last Round Bolt Hold Open?

A: While we currently don't have a way to make our drum active Warfield Armory's LRBHO, our drum can be modified to fit a Saiga-12 with the after market device installed without effecting any function of the drum. You would do this the same way you have done your other mags, by removing the same material off the tower. (this info only concerns those that have this after market device installed)

By ordering you understand and agree to all terms and condition listed herein.



#78 Joe Lex

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 04:55 PM

I purchased a MD-Arms drum. I love the materials it is constructed from. I fit mine to my saiga with no problem... I think. I am having feeding issues with my drum that I don't have with my 12 rd magazine by surefire. Is there any way that I can make adjustments to make it cycle with my gun better? thanks

#79 rk1

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 10:23 PM

I went in a few days ago to one of Reno Nv's gunshops in hopes of buying a md arms drum. Unfortunately they said that they stopped carrying the MD arms due to the necks breaking off of a couple of them. Has anyone run into/heard of this issue?? My only option at that store was the promag drums.

#80 20nickels

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:24 PM

I went in a few days ago to one of Reno Nv's gunshops in hopes of buying a md arms drum. Unfortunately they said that they stopped carrying the MD arms due to the necks breaking off of a couple of them. Has anyone run into/heard of this issue?? My only option at that store was the promag drums.


This is highly suspect. I don't yet own a MD20 but have heard noting but praise for them. Additionally I've seen the x-rays that show the steel inserts and am wondering how this is even possible...
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#81 rk1

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 09:26 PM


I went in a few days ago to one of Reno Nv's gunshops in hopes of buying a md arms drum. Unfortunately they said that they stopped carrying the MD arms due to the necks breaking off of a couple of them. Has anyone run into/heard of this issue?? My only option at that store was the promag drums.


This is highly suspect. I don't yet own a MD20 but have heard noting but praise for them. Additionally I've seen the x-rays that show the steel inserts and am wondering how this is even possible...


Highly suspect? Call them and ask yourself then. It is USfirearmsacademy in Reno NV.

#82 deadeye

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 11:25 PM

have you seen the torture test that mike did? he drove over the drumm with a truck like 10 times then beat it with a hammer then picked it up and fired just fine.
"A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own goverment."

George Washington

#83 ShadowFire

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 04:12 PM

I've already spent too much this month. But if they can keep the sale going for another month I'd be happy to add to a potential sales boost for them. :)
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#84 Spindrift

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 10:08 AM


From MD Arms

REPLY: I take issue with a few things you have written. California law is NOT clear cut about the large cap mags. You CAN bring in a High cap parts KIT, but the danger here is that the moment you put it together, and your not a manufacturer, then you have broken CAL State law. However, there is nothing illegal about bringing a high cap kit in and modifying it to take only the legal limit. I have done that very thing to produce 10 round Thompson mags that look like 30 round mags because they were at one time. Permanent modification also DOES NOT mean that they can't be reconverted back to high cap if you ever leave California. It just means that you couldn't, in the field, easily convert it back to 30 round, or higher, mags. Rivets are the best for this and count as being permanent. Thus Cal state people can have a 20 round drum that is modified, permanently, only to 10 rounds. I have one and it wasn't that difficult. Of course, when I finally leave California and move to Nevada or Arizona, as I keep threatening my California lovin' wife that I will do, then all the Cal mutilated caps will definitely go back to high cap!
jmDove

Please stop quoting this information. It is incorrect. Please scroll back and read the current MA state laws. BTW... you can thank Mitt Romney for making this law.



Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Is this drum legal to own?

A: Federal -There are no federal laws against owning or using this magazine at 20rd capacity. There are no federal permits or fees required or associated with this magazine.

State & Local - This 20rd magazine is legal to own in most states and areas. Even in most of the 20rd capacity restricted areas, except California, you can still purchase a drum with a capacity limited to the capacity limit of your state or area. Below is a list of restricted areas in 20rd capacity. Followed by the restricted state or area is the capacity limits for that location in (XXrds). If you order a mag from a restricted state or area it will be shipped with a capacity limit of (XXrds) for your area. Also please note that the capacity limit is NOT going to be easily or readily convertible to a 20rd capacity. Just to make it clear, extreme measures will be made by MD Arms, Ltd to prevent convertibility. And any attempt to do so will be at the sole responsibility of the person attempting such in the terms of legal liability and unit damages. Please don't order from a 20rd capacity restricted state or area with the hopes of a possibility of getting such. Although we are providing this information, it is the buyer responsibility to maintain changing information in there own local laws and legality of owning this item in your area.

The restricted states and areas in a 20rd capacity are as follows:



Restricted in the State of:

New York (10rds)

New Jersey (6rds)

California (No detachable mags on a semi-automatic shotgun allowed in the state)

Massachusetts (5rds) (20rds with a Massachusetts's state issued Class A or B Right to Carry Permit)



Restricted in The City of:

Aurora, Illinois (15rds)

Chicago, Illinois (12rds)

Franklin Park, Illinois (16rds)

Oak Park, Illinois (10rds)



If you are curious about your state or local laws, you can view up to date information anytime from this link:

www.handgunlaw.us/documents/NoHiCapChemSpray.pdf



No exception will be made on shipping a 20rd capacity drum to restricted states or areas. If you have a special right to own such in restricted states or areas due to occupation or licence, proof must be provided in writing and then verified by MD Arms, Ltd. Absolutely No Exceptions!



Q: Is this magazine 922r compliant?

A: Yes, every component of this magazine is made in the United States of America. It is compliant and legal with ANY Saiga-12 firearm. It counts as 3 US parts in the Federal guidelines on 922r compliant.



Q: Do you ship outside of the United States?

A: At this time we only offer sales to the 50 States. We are looking into the legalities and permits involved in shipping this item out of country. But for now, No.

Product Overview:



Material, Components, and Features:

Q: What is it made from?

A: While most similar products are made from glass filled nylon, MD Arms went a step above and made our drum out of glass filled polyphthalamide with steel inserts. Polyphthalamide is in the nylon family but is not nylon. It outperforms nylon in strength, toughness, and durability. It retains these properties in humanly unbearable hot and cold conditions. The material is commonly used to replace metal components. The back cover plate is a transparent polycarbonate and allows you to easily see the drum's ammo capacity. The spring is made of 302 stainless steel. Also the tension of the spring is adjustable to meet your specific demands on ammo weight differences. The feed-lips are made of black-oxide coated spring steel.



Q: How much does the drum weigh?

A: The drum is light weight at around 1.75 lbs. empty.



Q: Will this drum fit my Saiga-12?

A: Our drum will fit any model Saiga-12 in the United States, factory or converted.



Q: Is the feed angle the same as the factory mags?

A: We took great care and concern in making sure our drums have the same feed angle in the chamber as factory mags, to provide the best in reliability.



Q: Does this drum take all 2 3/4 inch 12ga rounds? 3 inch rounds?

A: No. Our mag will take the very most of 2 3/4 inch rounds up to 2.40 inches in length. Some 2 3/4 inch rounds such as roll crimped Wolf and steel cased Silver Bear or too long to fit at 2.50 inches or 2 1/2 inches. This drum will not accept 3 inch mag rounds and can in no way be modified to fit them.



Q: Can this drum be loaded on a closed bolt at full capacity?

A: No. Our drum cannot be loaded on a closed bolt at 20rd capacity. It can be loaded on a closed bolt at 19rd capacity.



Q: Will this drum work with my after market Warfield Armory, Last Round Bolt Hold Open?

A: While we currently don't have a way to make our drum active Warfield Armory's LRBHO, our drum can be modified to fit a Saiga-12 with the after market device installed without effecting any function of the drum. You would do this the same way you have done your other mags, by removing the same material off the tower. (this info only concerns those that have this after market device installed)

By ordering you understand and agree to all terms and condition listed herein.


You can run... but you'll just die tired and out of breath.

#85 Spindrift

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 10:12 AM

Well I don't know how that quote got screwed up but, please stop quoting that post. Scroll back and read the current MA laws I posted. BTW, thank Mitt Romney for that law. A 20 round drum will land you in jail.
You can run... but you'll just die tired and out of breath.

#86 jmdove

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 01:14 AM



From MD Arms

REPLY: I take issue with a few things you have written. California law is NOT clear cut about the large cap mags. You CAN bring in a High cap parts KIT, but the danger here is that the moment you put it together, and your not a manufacturer, then you have broken CAL State law. However, there is nothing illegal about bringing a high cap kit in and modifying it to take only the legal limit. I have done that very thing to produce 10 round Thompson mags that look like 30 round mags because they were at one time. Permanent modification also DOES NOT mean that they can't be reconverted back to high cap if you ever leave California. It just means that you couldn't, in the field, easily convert it back to 30 round, or higher, mags. Rivets are the best for this and count as being permanent. Thus Cal state people can have a 20 round drum that is modified, permanently, only to 10 rounds. I have one and it wasn't that difficult. Of course, when I finally leave California and move to Nevada or Arizona, as I keep threatening my California lovin' wife that I will do, then all the Cal mutilated caps will definitely go back to high cap!
jmDove

Please stop quoting this information. It is incorrect. Please scroll back and read the current MA state laws. BTW... you can thank Mitt Romney for making this law.

July 22 2011 Reply: The information you are asking me to stop quoting is NOT INCORRECT for CALIFORNIA! The law here says that you cannot have both a detachable magazine AND a pistol grip for any rifle or shotgun. However, you are allowed to have a bullet button or other device that allows you to remove the magazine with a tool. This makes it technically a fixed magazine and you can then have the pistol grip. Thus you can still have these magazines AND the drum too as long as they are limited to only 10 rounds and fixed with a device of some sort. I own one of the drums, as a parts kit of course, and I have not yet put it together because I HATE the idea of limiting it to only 10 rounds. It is also amazing to me the number of ffls who are ignorant about what can be sold in California. At present, here in California, I own not only the drums and bullet button detachable magazines of Saiga-12, but I own 2 Saiga-12s and two Thompson semi-autos. I was told both guns were illegal by many ffls here. They had NO idea what they were talking about and it is the same with many California gun owners. Too bad. They should actually download the Cali DOJ laws and read for themselves! I was even told, by one ffl, that the Thompson was on the banned assualt rifle lists. This is utter nonsense! What IS listed are generic "assault rifle" characteristics that ANY semi-auto cannot have. Get rid of those characteristics and the gun is legal as long as it is not actually named on the banned list!


Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Is this drum legal to own?

A: Federal -There are no federal laws against owning or using this magazine at 20rd capacity. There are no federal permits or fees required or associated with this magazine.

State & Local - This 20rd magazine is legal to own in most states and areas. Even in most of the 20rd capacity restricted areas, except California, you can still purchase a drum with a capacity limited to the capacity limit of your state or area. Below is a list of restricted areas in 20rd capacity. Followed by the restricted state or area is the capacity limits for that location in (XXrds). If you order a mag from a restricted state or area it will be shipped with a capacity limit of (XXrds) for your area. Also please note that the capacity limit is NOT going to be easily or readily convertible to a 20rd capacity. Just to make it clear, extreme measures will be made by MD Arms, Ltd to prevent convertibility. And any attempt to do so will be at the sole responsibility of the person attempting such in the terms of legal liability and unit damages. Please don't order from a 20rd capacity restricted state or area with the hopes of a possibility of getting such. Although we are providing this information, it is the buyer responsibility to maintain changing information in there own local laws and legality of owning this item in your area.

The restricted states and areas in a 20rd capacity are as follows:



Restricted in the State of:

New York (10rds)

New Jersey (6rds)

California (No detachable mags on a semi-automatic shotgun allowed in the state)

Massachusetts (5rds) (20rds with a Massachusetts's state issued Class A or B Right to Carry Permit)



Restricted in The City of:

Aurora, Illinois (15rds)

Chicago, Illinois (12rds)

Franklin Park, Illinois (16rds)

Oak Park, Illinois (10rds)



If you are curious about your state or local laws, you can view up to date information anytime from this link:

www.handgunlaw.us/documents/NoHiCapChemSpray.pdf



No exception will be made on shipping a 20rd capacity drum to restricted states or areas. If you have a special right to own such in restricted states or areas due to occupation or licence, proof must be provided in writing and then verified by MD Arms, Ltd. Absolutely No Exceptions!



Q: Is this magazine 922r compliant?

A: Yes, every component of this magazine is made in the United States of America. It is compliant and legal with ANY Saiga-12 firearm. It counts as 3 US parts in the Federal guidelines on 922r compliant.



Q: Do you ship outside of the United States?

A: At this time we only offer sales to the 50 States. We are looking into the legalities and permits involved in shipping this item out of country. But for now, No.

Product Overview:



Material, Components, and Features:

Q: What is it made from?

A: While most similar products are made from glass filled nylon, MD Arms went a step above and made our drum out of glass filled polyphthalamide with steel inserts. Polyphthalamide is in the nylon family but is not nylon. It outperforms nylon in strength, toughness, and durability. It retains these properties in humanly unbearable hot and cold conditions. The material is commonly used to replace metal components. The back cover plate is a transparent polycarbonate and allows you to easily see the drum's ammo capacity. The spring is made of 302 stainless steel. Also the tension of the spring is adjustable to meet your specific demands on ammo weight differences. The feed-lips are made of black-oxide coated spring steel.



Q: How much does the drum weigh?

A: The drum is light weight at around 1.75 lbs. empty.



Q: Will this drum fit my Saiga-12?

A: Our drum will fit any model Saiga-12 in the United States, factory or converted.



Q: Is the feed angle the same as the factory mags?

A: We took great care and concern in making sure our drums have the same feed angle in the chamber as factory mags, to provide the best in reliability.



Q: Does this drum take all 2 3/4 inch 12ga rounds? 3 inch rounds?

A: No. Our mag will take the very most of 2 3/4 inch rounds up to 2.40 inches in length. Some 2 3/4 inch rounds such as roll crimped Wolf and steel cased Silver Bear or too long to fit at 2.50 inches or 2 1/2 inches. This drum will not accept 3 inch mag rounds and can in no way be modified to fit them.



Q: Can this drum be loaded on a closed bolt at full capacity?

A: No. Our drum cannot be loaded on a closed bolt at 20rd capacity. It can be loaded on a closed bolt at 19rd capacity.



Q: Will this drum work with my after market Warfield Armory, Last Round Bolt Hold Open?

A: While we currently don't have a way to make our drum active Warfield Armory's LRBHO, our drum can be modified to fit a Saiga-12 with the after market device installed without effecting any function of the drum. You would do this the same way you have done your other mags, by removing the same material off the tower. (this info only concerns those that have this after market device installed)

By ordering you understand and agree to all terms and condition listed herein.



#87 jmdove

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 01:20 AM

Well I don't know how that quote got screwed up but, please stop quoting that post. Scroll back and read the current MA laws I posted. BTW, thank Mitt Romney for that law. A 20 round drum will land you in jail.



Just another reason NOT to vote for Romney! However, the 20 round drum IS legal to own in California as long as it is modified to be limited to only 10 rounds. I suggest that your read your own laws carefully before you write off the drum. It may simply be necessary to limit it to 10 rounds, or less, as is required in the Socialist Republic of California. It is worth a look certainly. If not....well then that sucks.

Edited by jmdove, 23 July 2011 - 01:22 AM.


#88 S-12 Pauly

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 02:12 PM

Anyone shoot the federal value pack from walmart with the md drum? I'm having serious fte issues. Regular magazines are no problem though.Might give the Remington value pack a try but aren't they pretty much identical quality?I did shoot some federal 00 LE and those shot fine...I have a converted saga with an autoplug. No matter how tight I adjusted the plug, I was still having fte. But like I said, federal LE 00 and the new Remington self defense ammo were no problem



I purchased a MD-Arms drum. I love the materials it is constructed from. I fit mine to my saiga with no problem... I think. I am having feeding issues with my drum that I don't have with my 12 rd magazine by surefire. Is there any way that I can make adjustments to make it cycle with my gun better? thanks

The drum's factory spring setting (3 rotations) is for high brass to cycle.
Some guns need less spring pressure for weak ammo, like 2.5 rotations.

The simple fix to run both high power & weak ammo from those guns on the same spring setting is a bolt modification such as GlassBolt.

The GlassBolt modification was engineered to greatly reduce resistance between the top round in a mag & the bolt both upon mag insertion & cycling as the bolt retracts over the rounds as they press against the bolt.
This is beneficial because all drums exert much more spring pressure on the rounds.

GlassBolt is the service recommended by the MD-20's designer; http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/61900-paulys-glass-bolt-special/page__view__findpost__p__594044

Email: paulyski@gmail.com

Phone Number: (971) 209-2711


#89 jmdove

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 04:21 PM

I did not know that thanks for the great input Pauly!

#90 sufi pirate

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 06:54 PM

Can anyone say just what doesn't run in this gun with md20?

Looking for surplus/imported cheap high power
bigger than birdshot damage before UPS raises rates in August.

3rd post regarding this.

Far as I can tell Rio doesn't fit till you bust the primer.

Requesting more detail information.
You can't fix stupid,...BUT you CAN give it a plastic bag to play with




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