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New Guy with some questions about this rifle


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Hey everyone,

I know that this board is partial to the Saiga .308, but I'll start by saying that I am considering 3 different semi-auto military style .308's:

FAL

M-14

Saiga or Vepr

Why military style instead of a bolt action? Because I'm an Army guy and I like a lot of rounds :) . Also, being on active duty I move around a lot. Due to the helicopter that I fly, I remain in the 50 states for my actual home/duty station. Since I move around a lot within the US I would like to be able to hunt from Alaska to Alabama, and have decided on the .308 round.

 

If you were in my shoes, moving from place to place and looking for good reliability in all climates and settings, acceptable groups at and perhaps a little beyond 300m (acceptable being the ability to successfully drop a 4 legged or, if need be, a 2 legged creature), and long service life- which would you prefer?

Honestly, I am going to paint it, I'll be backpacking in the field for days with it, and the rifle will most certainly/probably be abused! (and if you say HK 417 I'm gonna go crazy because I'd like one but have no idea how to find one :chris: ).

 

As I know that this is the dedicated Saiga forum, and it seems to be a good option- here's my questions regarding it:

1. would you get a 16" or 22" barrel? What are the advantages/disadvantages to these barrel lengths?

2. I hear that the G2 trigger won't work, is there another drop in that someone with very little mechanical inclination or tools could install?

3. How is the skeleton stock? Is it difficult to install a folder? (since I'm military I've gotten very used to pistol grips)

4. Saiga, or Vepr? Is the price difference worth it, and why?

 

I know it's a lot of questions for my first post here, but hey, I gotta make a name for myself right? :smoke: Thanks in advance!

 

__________________

"The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any."

-James Madison, 1787

 

SAE La Rho, Phi Alpha 265911

F & A.M. Lodge 62

USAWOA

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i may be wrong but i think the G2 trigger will work, you just have to convert to pistol grip config.....which it sounds like you are planning to do anyway.

 

for a gun which will likely be abused and wanted to still work.....go with the saiga and convert.

 

should have decent accuracy at 300, and if you find that it doesn't...well...you are out $400 (and could still sell it here easy) rather than 1400 for the M14 SOCOM or whatever.

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No problem, welcome aboard soldier!

 

I can't speak for the first two choices there because I don't have them but the S.308 is a great rifle and can easily be converted to standard military configuration with a folding stock and PG. The new model (version 21) is even easier because it comes with the FCG already in the correct position. It has been said that it is very much like the Vepr. Only thing with the new model is it comes with a slant cut receiver just like the Vepr so you would need to get an adapter for the stock. That's no problem though if the receiver is in fact, cut just like the Vepr. Ace would be your best choice for a folding stock anyway and they make a adapter for Vepr receivers.

Here are a couple of threads that talk about the new model some.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=23329

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=23747

 

Also check out the tacked picture thread for lots of different options.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=14900

 

To address your questions directly...

 

1. would you get a 16" or 22" barrel? What are the advantages/disadvantages to these barrel lengths?

It depends on what you want it for. Both can be made into very nice conversions in their own sense. I converted my first one with the long barrel into a Vepr clone for shooting at paper from the bench.

My second one, I wanted a battle rifle so I cut the barrel back to 16" and built it like a standard AK. Sounds to me like this would be your best route if you want it easily portable and compact. The popular opinion is that a 16" barrel is at least as accurate, if not more so, than the 21.8". You will lose a very negligible amount of muzzle energy but the bright side is a shorter barrel doesn't have as much room to flex when heated up. I'm looking forward to getting both of mine on the bags soon and comparing them.

2. I hear that the G2 trigger won't work, is there another drop in that someone with very little mechanical inclination or tools could install?

The RSA trigger works great, drops right in from what I hear, and is more expensive. The G-2 will work just fine. I have G-2s in both of mine.

The safety selector may need a minor modification or you can get an already modified G-2 from dinzag that will solve this issue. The problem is the selector does not engage the rear shelf of the G-2 trigger like it should. What I did was swap my selector out with one from an S-12...fixed.

3. How is the skeleton stock? Is it difficult to install a folder? (since I'm military I've gotten very used to pistol grips)

People who have the skeleton stock seem to like it a lot. It's very similar to the one on the SVD.

I would recommend an Ace folding skeleton stock though. You can get one for the standard stamped square cut reciver or the slant cut with an adapter. I have the Ace and it's the most sturdy folding stock I've seen. Very high quality.

4. Saiga, or Vepr? Is the price difference worth it, and why?

I would say Saiga, but then I don't have a real Vepr yet. There will however, be someone along very shortly to tell you all about that.

 

Here's my new baby I'm almost finished with....

 

post-1293-1205415623_thumb.jpg

 

post-1293-1205415639_thumb.jpg

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Due to the helicopter that I fly..........................

 

.........................USAWOA

 

Sounds like more trouble.........what do you fly sirlaffy? Edit: nevermind, saw your profile. UH-60's here at Ft. Hood. Welcome aboard.

Edited by shaneman153a
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Cobra and Ranger: Thanks for all of the information today guys! I've found a pretty neat looking Saiga, 16" barrel with skeleton stock (which I like a lot), for $445. I'd still have to include shipping and FFL which would probably put right around the $500 mark. I thought that these were cheaper, any ideas where I could pick one up for less?

 

shaneman: That's great to hear! I'm currently at Fort Rucker in OH-58D training now, have no idea where I'm going to be stationed yet but I've put in for Alaska. There's no telling where they'll send me though, and I love the outdoors so that's why I've included the importance of whichever weapon I choose being able to make it through survival school like conditions across the country.

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Cobra and Ranger: Thanks for all of the information today guys! I've found a pretty neat looking Saiga, 16" barrel with skeleton stock (which I like a lot), for $445. I'd still have to include shipping and FFL which would probably put right around the $500 mark. I thought that these were cheaper, any ideas where I could pick one up for less?

 

shaneman: That's great to hear! I'm currently at Fort Rucker in OH-58D training now, have no idea where I'm going to be stationed yet but I've put in for Alaska. There's no telling where they'll send me though, and I love the outdoors so that's why I've included the importance of whichever weapon I choose being able to make it through survival school like conditions across the country.

 

 

SirLaffy,

 

 

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp...amp;ProdID=1632

 

or

 

http://www.classicarms.us/

 

this is a better price if you are going to have one shipped. Now the question is are you goign to convert....to put in a new FCG you have to move the trigger group forward, and thus that factory pistol grip is no longer going to work for you. so that is sort of wasted money to buy one with it if you are just going to convert it.

 

now consider that with the gun i linked above you can convert as much as you like, or simply put in a new gas piston and slap in the surefire mags and be 922r compliant. all you gotta do is buy a $25 part, and a few $45 mags (that is one reason to maybe consider the other guns.....their mags cost less....i think)

 

that said....it's an AK....the most reliable military weapon style ever.....could you go that wrong with it?

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Cobra and Ranger: Thanks for all of the information today guys! I've found a pretty neat looking Saiga, 16" barrel with skeleton stock (which I like a lot), for $445. I'd still have to include shipping and FFL which would probably put right around the $500 mark. I thought that these were cheaper, any ideas where I could pick one up for less?

 

shaneman: That's great to hear! I'm currently at Fort Rucker in OH-58D training now, have no idea where I'm going to be stationed yet but I've put in for Alaska. There's no telling where they'll send me though, and I love the outdoors so that's why I've included the importance of whichever weapon I choose being able to make it through survival school like conditions across the country.

 

 

SirLaffy,

 

 

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp...amp;ProdID=1632

 

or

 

http://www.classicarms.us/

 

this is a better price if you are going to have one shipped. Now the question is are you goign to convert....to put in a new FCG you have to move the trigger group forward, and thus that factory pistol grip is no longer going to work for you. so that is sort of wasted money to buy one with it if you are just going to convert it.

 

now consider that with the gun i linked above you can convert as much as you like, or simply put in a new gas piston and slap in the surefire mags and be 922r compliant. all you gotta do is buy a $25 part, and a few $45 mags (that is one reason to maybe consider the other guns.....their mags cost less....i think)

 

that said....it's an AK....the most reliable military weapon style ever.....could you go that wrong with it?

 

 

For the mission tasking you are describing, I think you would be better off with a lighter weight, more accurate bolt action rifle.

 

By all means still get a Siaga .308, but get the bolt gun too.

 

When President Obama bans all imports by Executive Order your Saiga .308 will be worth about $1500, so you can't lose.

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Still very interesting points, hadn't thought about how much I am not looking forward to an anti-gun politician as my commander and chief. Don't wanna open up that can of worms though! Thanks again for all of the info, looks like I've still got some research to do.

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I've had FALs, AR 10s and M14s (M1A). Get the Saiga and convert it. My Saiga is a 16.5. With good hunting ammo I can usually keep 20 shots into about half an E-target at 300 yards, from the prone position, with the iron AK sights. That's good enough for me. The G2 trigger will work, as Cobra 76 two mentioned with slight mod to the safety. Side folder installation is easy. Mine has an extra short ACE side folder with a SAW pistol grip.

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