Saiga-12 Use

[G O B 3,516]

It's an AK in 12 ga What more can I say????

[THE_HUNTER 2]

I saw a stock S-12 with 19 inch unthreaded barrel at a gunshow and talked the guy down quite abit.Never saw one in person but heard about them,had to have it.Then I found an Ace converted one at a gunshop and did my first online purchase,of the S-12!It's an AK 12gauge shooting huge slugs and buckshot loads!Can't do that with my 7.62!Gotta love it!

[Monk 0]

Then there is the "just got to have" folding stock. What use is this? If you are James Bond, you can sneak your shotgun into Goldfingers house? (Don't worry, this is a really old movie ~ 1964).

I don't like the looks of folding stocks at all and I can't see any functional purpose to them. There is a reason you don't see military/SWAT/LEO running around with pistol grip shotguns instead of fixed stock ones. What DO you see? You see them with fixed stocks planted firmly into their shoulders at-the-ready. If a bad guy breaks into your house, the last thing you want is to have your stock folded and carrying it at the hip. Shotguns are NOT spray-and-pray weapons, especially at close indoor distances.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Monk

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Then there is the "just got to have" folding stock. What use is this? If you are James Bond, you can sneak your shotgun into Goldfingers house? (Don't worry, this is a really old movie ~ 1964).

I don't like the looks of folding stocks at all and I can't see any functional purpose to them. There is a reason you don't see military/SWAT/LEO running around with pistol grip shotguns instead of fixed stock ones. What DO you see? You see them with fixed stocks planted firmly into their shoulders at-the-ready. If a bad guy breaks into your house, the last thing you want is to have your stock folded and carrying it at the hip. Shotguns are NOT spray-and-pray weapons, especially at close indoor distances.

Agreed that the extended stock is preferable for usage but the foldng stock makes the transport options available.

[Monk 0]

Then there is the "just got to have" folding stock. What use is this? If you are James Bond, you can sneak your shotgun into Goldfingers house? (Don't worry, this is a really old movie ~ 1964).

I don't like the looks of folding stocks at all and I can't see any functional purpose to them. There is a reason you don't see military/SWAT/LEO running around with pistol grip shotguns instead of fixed stock ones. What DO you see? You see them with fixed stocks planted firmly into their shoulders at-the-ready. If a bad guy breaks into your house, the last thing you want is to have your stock folded and carrying it at the hip. Shotguns are NOT spray-and-pray weapons, especially at close indoor distances.

Agreed that the extended stock is preferable for usage but the foldng stock makes the transport options available.

What do you mean by that? In what mode or carrier of transportation could you fit a folded stock Saiga that you couldn't fit a fixed stock Saiga, provided both had the same barrel length? The only thing I can think of would be a folded 8" SBS in a backpack or the ability to be stored in a very slightly smaller gun case, but I'm not sure how that would be really useful in reality provided you have a vehicle that is bigger than a Mini Cooper.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Monk

[okent 0]

Then there is the "just got to have" folding stock. What use is this? If you are James Bond, you can sneak your shotgun into Goldfingers house? (Don't worry, this is a really old movie ~ 1964).

I don't like the looks of folding stocks at all and I can't see any functional purpose to them. There is a reason you don't see military/SWAT/LEO running around with pistol grip shotguns instead of fixed stock ones. What DO you see? You see them with fixed stocks planted firmly into their shoulders at-the-ready. If a bad guy breaks into your house, the last thing you want is to have your stock folded and carrying it at the hip. Shotguns are NOT spray-and-pray weapons, especially at close indoor distances.

Agreed that the extended stock is preferable for usage but the foldng stock makes the transport options available.

What do you mean by that? In what mode or carrier of transportation could you fit a folded stock Saiga that you couldn't fit a fixed stock Saiga, provided both had the same barrel length? The only thing I can think of would be a folded 8" SBS in a backpack or the ability to be stored in a very slightly smaller gun case, but I'm not sure how that would be really useful in reality provided you have a vehicle that is bigger than a Mini Cooper.

 

I would venture to say the Tromix folder won't collapse any time soon. Next time you get a chance to handle a Tromix folder you can see just how fast it flips open to a rock solid platform.

If you are riding "shotgun" then a folder becomes a plus for rapid exit. Same reason that our guys are using short rifles in Iraq in Humvee's.

Longer weapons can get you jammed up much easier when getting out of a vehicle.

You may not like the looks of it but a good folder has it's place.

That being said, I have an 8" short with the Tromix folder. I have never shot it without the stock unfolded and probably never will.

It is a flaming pig beast that is entirely too fun to keep locked up!

[joelrod47 373]

"It is a flaming pig beast that is entirely too fun to keep locked up!"

 

Well said, Okent !!! LOL !!!! .............and so true !!!!

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Then there is the "just got to have" folding stock. What use is this? If you are James Bond, you can sneak your shotgun into Goldfingers house? (Don't worry, this is a really old movie ~ 1964).

I don't like the looks of folding stocks at all and I can't see any functional purpose to them. There is a reason you don't see military/SWAT/LEO running around with pistol grip shotguns instead of fixed stock ones. What DO you see? You see them with fixed stocks planted firmly into their shoulders at-the-ready. If a bad guy breaks into your house, the last thing you want is to have your stock folded and carrying it at the hip. Shotguns are NOT spray-and-pray weapons, especially at close indoor distances.

Agreed that the extended stock is preferable for usage but the foldng stock makes the transport options available.

What do you mean by that? In what mode or carrier of transportation could you fit a folded stock Saiga that you couldn't fit a fixed stock Saiga, provided both had the same barrel length? The only thing I can think of would be a folded 8" SBS in a backpack or the ability to be stored in a very slightly smaller gun case, but I'm not sure how that would be really useful in reality provided you have a vehicle that is bigger than a Mini Cooper.

It is kind of like the old saw, if you have to ask you can't afford it. I like mine the way it is and I hope you enjoy yours. I can put mine on the outer part of a backpack or under a trench coat and enjoy life.

1911

[Azrial 1,091]

OldandSlow, not everyone uses a shotgun to play games such as yourself. I doubt that you would need a folding stock to sneak into a contest. Lets face it, competition, is a game, just like football and a football is a toy. I have no problem with that. You seem a grown man and you should be able to have the toy of your choice!

 

However, you come across as pretty critical of others for the way they choose to modify their shotguns because these modifications would not be useful in your contest. Forgive me if this was not your intent.

 

What do I use mine for? Right now it is noting but an evaluation piece. If it passes my evaluation I can promise you I will not be using it to play games.

 

I hope that you continue to enjoy yours as you see fit. But it just a piece of equipment, a toy, used in a game. Not the gold standard that all must emulate in their builds.

[dvdivx 0]

I got a Saiga 12 because it's the safest shotgun if you have kids in the house. You just need to load a mag and you are good to go. With a Pump it's just too risky.

[Elkhound 91]

You have all set forth some excellent reasons. I will soon have my first Saiga 12. It will be followed rather quickly with a 2nd. The third will arrive when Tony is _amn well good and ready for me to have it. I am buying them because I like their reputation, their look and their function. I also agree with the idea of keeping the shot gun and the mag separate as the safest combination for a home defense shotgun (I guess the Wilson Combat will soon be reduces to a safe queen). In all probability, two of the three will strictly be for my collection. The third will actually be used and will serve as the replacement for the Wilson Combat and the one I tote down to Cobra's for some water melon hunting.

 

Besides, I figured that if I didn't eventually get one, you guys would kick me off the board as a poser.

 

WJ

Edited March 18, 2008 by WarriorJudge

[oldandslow 3]

The best answer so far...

 

 

 

I use my Saiga 12 fer shootin' stuff!

~nuff said!

[oldandslow 3]

Sorry if I offend. I see many statements here, some of which puzzle me from a utility point of view.

 

Actually, this post is working out better than I expected. For instance, I'm am not a big fan of short barreled shotguns and folding stocks. However, a reasonable explanation, "short guns are better exiting a vehicle",

makes a lot of sense.

 

 

OldandSlow, not everyone uses a shotgun to play games such as yourself. I doubt that you would need a folding stock to sneak into a contest. Lets face it, competition, is a game, just like football and a football is a toy. I have no problem with that. You seem a grown man and you should be able to have the toy of your choice!

 

However, you come across as pretty critical of others for the way they choose to modify their shotguns because these modifications would not be useful in your contest. Forgive me if this was not your intent.

 

What do I use mine for? Right now it is noting but an evaluation piece. If it passes my evaluation I can promise you I will not be using it to play games.

 

I hope that you continue to enjoy yours as you see fit. But it just a piece of equipment, a toy, used in a game. Not the gold standard that all must emulate in their builds.

[Ronswin 26]

I got into 3-gun in the late nineties and was looking for a Remington 1100 to trick-out and retire my old Winchester pump. In a local dealer's recent shipment, I found a brand new ( and then unheard of) Saiga-12. After many questions to the dealer I thought, semi-auto using one of the world's most reliable designs, mag-fed and only $325......what's wrong with this??!! I bought it that day and never have thought twice about that Remington 1100 again. I have shortened the barrel from 22 to 19 inches for better tight quarters usage and yes, I have an Ace folding stock installed. Yes, the folder is good for storage and when slung (folded) it doesn't get in the way as a full length shotgun. I have used the Saiga with the stock folded in one particular stage of the NC Recon where you must engage multiple targets from the front driver's and passenger's window of a mid-size car. With the stock folded using front and rear pistol grips, the Saiga-12 (even with buckshot) is very controllable and quick! I have also used the Saiga-12 in "kill-house" type of stages with the stock folded as it allows me to get through doorways faster and have better muzzle control ( less likely to break the 180 rule).

[oldandslow 3]

I got into 3-gun in the late nineties and was looking for a Remington 1100 to trick-out and retire my old Winchester pump. In a local dealer's recent shipment, I found a brand new ( and then unheard of) Saiga-12. After many questions to the dealer I thought, semi-auto using one of the world's most reliable designs, mag-fed and only $325......what's wrong with this??!! I bought it that day and never have thought twice about that Remington 1100 again. I have shortened the barrel from 22 to 19 inches for better tight quarters usage and yes, I have an Ace folding stock installed. Yes, the folder is good for storage and when slung (folded) it doesn't get in the way as a full length shotgun. I have used the Saiga with the stock folded in one particular stage of the NC Recon where you must engage multiple targets from the front driver's and passenger's window of a mid-size car. With the stock folded using front and rear pistol grips, the Saiga-12 (even with buckshot) is very controllable and quick! I have also used the Saiga-12 in "kill-house" type of stages with the stock folded as it allows me to get through doorways faster and have better muzzle control ( less likely to break the 180 rule).

 

What did you user for magazines?

[Franky 2]

1.) In WWI the German soldiers were in fear of assulting the opposing trenches filled with the Americans and their deadly 12 ga. shotguns.

 

2.) I retain the memory of Arnold with the Street Sweeper 12 rd 12 ga..

 

3.) The memory of a Steet Sweeper in a southern Illinois gun shop for $2400.00 that was gone the next month when I had the money and the later ATF director's reclassification of it to a class 3 firearm.

 

4.) With the MD 20rd 12 ga. drum the ability to own a class I 12 ga. shotgun with a capacity of 8rds more than the Cobray street sweeper at less than half the price.

 

5.) The people of this country have shown with their votes in the primary that they want a change. I like McCain but he does not look like the change this majority is looking for. With that information I reluctantly think either Obama or Hillary will be president and these guns will also be class 3 weapons within the next 18 months.

 

GET YOUR SHOTGUN AND DRUM WHILE YOU CAN. IF YOU ARE SHORT ON FUNDS YOU CAN HAVE IT MODIFIED LATER.

Said perfectly........ Reallity.

[Franky 2]

I own and build many AK variants. The Saiga 12 is a natural addition. Since my wife and I already know the AK action, the Saiga 12 is a perfect addition for home defense.

I can take squirrels, deer, pretty much any game with the Saiga if needed.

I've competed locally (And WON) at the local Turkey Shoots.

 

And it's the coolest firearm that can discharge hundreds of projectiles in seconds without Federal Tax Stamps.

Congrats.

[Ronswin 26]

I got into 3-gun in the late nineties and was looking for a Remington 1100 to trick-out and retire my old Winchester pump. In a local dealer's recent shipment, I found a brand new ( and then unheard of) Saiga-12. After many questions to the dealer I thought, semi-auto using one of the world's most reliable designs, mag-fed and only $325......what's wrong with this??!! I bought it that day and never have thought twice about that Remington 1100 again. I have shortened the barrel from 22 to 19 inches for better tight quarters usage and yes, I have an Ace folding stock installed. Yes, the folder is good for storage and when slung (folded) it doesn't get in the way as a full length shotgun. I have used the Saiga with the stock folded in one particular stage of the NC Recon where you must engage multiple targets from the front driver's and passenger's window of a mid-size car. With the stock folded using front and rear pistol grips, the Saiga-12 (even with buckshot) is very controllable and quick! I have also used the Saiga-12 in "kill-house" type of stages with the stock folded as it allows me to get through doorways faster and have better muzzle control ( less likely to break the 180 rule).

 

What did you user for magazines?

 

Until we scored the Russian eight-round mags, I used the five-round mags and got fairly good at mag changes and counting rounds to know when to swap empty for full mag. I had seven five-rounders placed two each in G.I M-16 mag pouches on a web belt. With two mags in a pouch, the mags would be at staggered height making it real easy to grab. Now I have seven 10-round mags and eagerly awaiting my MD Drum. Ahh, to remember the "good ol days"....!

[csspecs 1,987]

This is why. One of six I took (and the only one that I took a picture of).

 

I was tired of only getting one shot at fleeing game birds, now everyone says they can tell where I am because it sounds like a machine gun (I walk the trigger). If I get the chance to fire I will recover the bird every time, before it was something like one out of three that I shot

 

I don't care what the gun grabbers might say, this shotgun if used by most hunters would boost recovered game and lower lost wounded animals significantly. I know people that hunt with single shot shotguns that shoot and hit five or more birds for every one bird they recover, if they recovered all the birds that they shot they would be at their limit and still have killed less birds.

 

Oh yeah the T6 collapsible stock is great for if you have a thick coat on, you just slide it in a notch and your back to the correct LOP.

Edited March 18, 2008 by csspecs

[MadMax 0]

I was putting together my ideal travel rig. I wanted a good semi-auto, military type rifle and a shotgun to go in a tennis racket bag. It makes a handy package and good camo for when I'm carrying it across a motel parking lot or through a hotel lobby.

 

I had been packing a Rem 870 with a folding stock. I had always gone with the crowd about "pumps are more reliable" and all that. But then I started thinking about how there is no real reason why semi-autos should be intrinsically less reliable.

 

So I figured to replace the 870 with a semi-auto shotgun. I did a bunch of surfing and found that basically all conventional, readily available auto shotgun have the recoil spring in the buttstock - which meant I couldn't get one to fit in the envelope I had.

 

So I came to this site and read up on the Saiga. It met all my requirements with better than just acceptable reliability.

 

Add to all this that I expect we will see another AWB before too long and I figured I had better get it while the gettin' is good.

[jhereg 0]

What do you mean by that? In what mode or carrier of transportation could you fit a folded stock Saiga that you couldn't fit a fixed stock Saiga, provided both had the same barrel length? The only thing I can think of would be a folded 8" SBS in a backpack or the ability to be stored in a very slightly smaller gun case, but I'm not sure how that would be really useful in reality provided you have a vehicle that is bigger than a Mini Cooper.

 

There are a lot of reasons a short rifle/shotgun is useful. Other than taking up less space in a shorter case they are going to be ease of movement in tight spaces. I have an AR15 SBR & I've found it's *MUCH* easier to get in & out of a vehicle w/ the SBR than a normal 16 - 20" rifle. It's easier to go through doorways. In general, it just doesn't get hung up on things. I don't see a lot of reasons I'd want to shoot one folded, but I find it hard to go back to full length rifles after getting used to my shorty.

[scoutjoe 276]

It's an AK in 12 ga What more can I say????

 

 

 

My thoughts exactly GOB

[xsr-so2 0]

PATROL SHOTGUN

[lelandeod 179]

Zombies... zombies and the occasional blood-fucking-sucking vampire.

[Zoub 0]

Where do you shoot your Saigas and what do you shoot at?

My only interest in an S12 is for competition. I refused to buy an S12 until now, I did not need another weapon platform with mags that would not be used much. The mag wells are my swing point. Mike at MDArms is making this gun into something I want to use. When I can get the magwell I am in.

 

The other issue is the damage to my elbows. Saigas are more centered and easier to hoist, even with 10 rounds in a mag. Semi auto is also easier on my elbows versus slamming a pump gun 100 to 200 times in a weekend shoot.

 

A 20 round mag makes it a real rocker with slugs. A true poor mans 50 cal.

 

If I could so SBS here in Indiana, I would have 3 already!!

Edited March 18, 2008 by Zoub

[Zoub 0]

Ahh, to remember the "good ol days"....!

Just saw this, the perfect answer. I chose to skip the good ol days and jump in when and if today ever came. It is here.

[Twinsen 86]

~I needed an autoloading shotgun for hunting/competition/fun

~It's the best auto shotgun available, ever, anywhere

~Zombies

[hkusp45 8]

My Tromix Shorty was purchased for two reasons. One was collection/investment the other is when someone comes through the door, property, etc. A shotgun is the best multi application tool in the shooters toolbox due to its ammunition diversity, power, etc. I picked the Saiga due to the AK platform because in my experience nothing compares to it's reliability which is the most important factor when the chips are down. I chose Tromix for the obvious reason, he is simply the best out there. There are plenty of folks doing their own conversions along with other companies and some of them look great but I have yet to find ANYONE who can get it done like Tony! I'd buy anything he puts together if it was something I was looking for!

[gtnichols 51]

i just found this site thanks to a member.

 

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Check out the flechette rounds

 

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and the flame thrower rounds,..

 

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Imagine a 20 round drum assortment,...and zombies,,,...

Edited March 19, 2008 by Gas Giant

[joelrod47 373]

i just found this site thanks to a member.

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Really a great site to do business with !!!!

 

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