Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
wlnt

What will serve me better, silver solder, tig/tig weld, rod weld

Recommended Posts

I think I have reached the point where I need to "kick it up a notch". To do this I need to be able to join metal to metal without a screw and without relying on an "adhesive".

 

Taking learning curve and money into consideration as well as the fact that I may use the new skill 30 min. to 2 hours a week, which would serve me better?

 

Here is a good example;

 

I want to take my Saiga gas tube, remove the shield and attach ferrules to the upper gas tube.

so I can use a regular upper handguard.

 

Can this be accomplised by silver soldering? Is silver soldering as difficult as welding?

 

From what I have read online it sounds like silve solder might be the best way for me to go.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks,

louielouie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welding thin sheets of metal is one of the most difficult to learn and do right.

Migs and Tig are 2 great versatile options.

 

For example if you invest in a mig welder, you will have the capability to weld stainless, aluminum (with a gas tank) and most reqular forms steel comes in, and it is the easiest to learn and do well,..

I have tried silver solder with excelent results on some unbeleivable metals where welding would never work, but for Steel i have to reccomend MIG or TIG,..

my 2 red cents,.

Edited by Gas Giant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Silver soldering is a breeze and highly recommended by me (on non critical parts with little stress) as an easy and low cost way to get it done. Use a propane or mapp gas torch and be sure to use a high temp silver solder, the type used in refrigeration units, and it will be quite durable, also for strength, be sure to do as much fitting as you can before you apply heat, position the pieces as well and as tightly as you can and use the heat to draw the solder into the small space between the two metal pieces, dont try to fill gaps with it, or use it to replace material that isnt there, and you will do fine.

 

Practicing might not hurt, either.

 

Oh, and another common error would be ommiting flux, be sure to buy silver solder flux when you buy the solder, or you wont have much luck getting it to flow.

Edited by ReverendFranz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say for metal that is 20 gauge or thinner. You would probally have the best results with TIG but a Mapp gas torch using Sil-fos would yeild good results as well with less chances of damaging the material. This may help you if soldering is new to you http://silfos.com/htmdocs/product_support/how_to_info.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Silver soldering is a breeze and highly recommended by me (on non critical parts with little stress) as an easy and low cost way to get it done. Use a propane or mapp gas torch and be sure to use a high temp silver solder, the type used in refrigeration units, and it will be quite durable, also for strength, be sure to do as much fitting as you can before you apply heat, position the pieces as well and as tightly as you can and use the heat to draw the solder into the small space between the two metal pieces, dont try to fill gaps with it, or use it to replace material that isnt there, and you will do fine.

 

Practicing might not hurt, either.

 

Oh, and another common error would be ommiting flux, be sure to buy silver solder flux when you buy the solder, or you wont have much luck getting it to flow.

 

 

I make my living in the commercial refrigeration field. Silver solder CAN do a good job of joining steel - works great in the machine shop too. Silfos, will NOT work well. Use 45% "Safety Silv" that comes in 1 troy ounce rolls of wire, proper flux is "Stay Silv", both Harris products. Brownells also sells good products for the purpose.

 

Be sure to clean well and use a torch of adequate capacity. Remember if it shows, ya gotta paint it as parkerize won't work on silver.

 

All that being said, TIG is best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 MickeyMouse.

 

TIG is the king for high quality professional welds, but it takes a lot of skill and experience do to right. With TIG you've got stuff going on in both hands. *You* control the feed rate of the filler rod with your off hand. You have to hold the electrode at just the right angle and distance from the work. After the dozenth time you accidentally touch the electrode to the work and have to dress it, you will (hopefully) also control a large quantity of rage and frustration.

 

MIG is much more forgiving. It's a 1 handed operation and you don't have to worry about sticking the tip. The wire feedrate is handled consistently and reliably by the welder. On the downside, MIG is more likely to blow through thin sheet metal, but trust me you have to be pretty hamfisted to blow holes in an AK receiver or trigger guard.

 

I'm currently working through a DIY conversion and had the choice of using either kind of welder. I care about attention to detail and doing it the Right Way, but I'm also pragmatic about my own welding skill. I chose MIG.

Edited by aresv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tig for almost every metal steel, aluminum, SS, Titanium

 

mig puts too much filler material on for fine work

 

silver is good just not suited for thicker parts, you must heat the parts much hotter than the heat from fine tig bead.

 

learn tig and you will never go back

 

JM2C'sW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excuse me if I'm mistaken.

You can buy a pretty good mig for $500. You can mig weld in a few minutes.

 

You can buy a pretty good tig for $2500. You can learn to be a great welder with tig.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you try and weld to the gas tube, the chances are you will destroy it! It is made of thin metal with a fairly tight tolerance! The original shield is spot welded on and this type of weld does hardly any distortion. If you try and MIG or Tig on thin metal you will most likely end up with blobs of steel you will need to grind down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Excuse me if I'm mistaken.

You can buy a pretty good mig for $500. You can mig weld in a few minutes.

 

You can buy a pretty good tig for $2500. You can learn to be a great welder with tig.

 

 

 

Sorry for the triple post.....dialup!!!!

Not trying to get into a pissing match but mig is for agricultural work

 

Yes you can put down a nice bead but mostly for high volume welding where the weld bead is not a visual concern or, for very large parts where a large bead of filler material is needed

 

Tig is more for craftsmen

 

gas tubes are not really considered thin, they are .030 - .040 thick, thin for tig in steel would be .010 - .015

 

Most people would be better served to prep all your parts and let a pro weld them for you

Edited by skiboatsp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Excuse me if I'm mistaken.

You can buy a pretty good mig for $500. You can mig weld in a few minutes.

 

You can buy a pretty good tig for $2500. You can learn to be a great welder with tig.

 

Not trying to get into a pissing match but mig is for agricultural work

 

Yes you can put down a nice bead but mostly for high volume welding where the weld bead is not a visual concern or, for very large parts where a large bead of filler material is needed

 

Tig is more for craftsmen

 

gas tubes are not really considered thin, they are .030 - .040 thick, thin for tig in steel would be .010 - .015

 

Most people would be better served to prep all your parts and let a pro weld them for you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Excuse me if I'm mistaken.

You can buy a pretty good mig for $500. You can mig weld in a few minutes.

 

You can buy a pretty good tig for $2500. You can learn to be a great welder with tig.

 

Not trying to get into a pissing match but mig is for agricultural work

 

Yes you can put down a nice bead but mostly for high volume welding where the weld bead is not a visual concern or, for very large parts where a large bead of filler material is needed

 

Tig is more for craftsmen

 

gas tubes are not really considered thin, they are .030 - .040 thick, thin for tig in steel would be .010 - .015

 

Most people would be better served to prep all your parts and let a pro weld them for you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry if anybody is offended.

 

I mig weld the holes in my Saiga receiver. I use a brass (instead of copper) backing plate. I have to grind, file and sand the weld to make the receiver look like it never had a hole.

 

When I tig weld the holes in my Saiga receiver, I use a brass backing plate. I have to grind, file and sand the receiver to make it look like it never had a hole.

 

I am not a good tig welder.

 

Apparently if I'm a good tig welder, I can weld up the hole without having to grind, file and sand the receiver to make it look like it never had a hole.

 

Which welding school teaches this technique?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frank Gentile school of welding,

the Tig, Mig, and stick master himself

 

problem is, he is not around any more,..

 

 

Maybe some one else knows of a school

 

try liberty welding, word has it, they can weld anything but the crack of Dawn!!

 

 

Sorry if anybody is offended.

 

I mig weld the holes in my Saiga receiver. I use a brass (instead of copper) backing plate. I have to grind, file and sand the weld to make the receiver look like it never had a hole.

 

When I tig weld the holes in my Saiga receiver, I use a brass backing plate. I have to grind, file and sand the receiver to make it look like it never had a hole.

 

I am not a good tig welder.

 

Apparently if I'm a good tig welder, I can weld up the hole without having to grind, file and sand the receiver to make it look like it never had a hole.

 

Which welding school teaches this technique?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could always take a class at your local tech school. Then you could try out some pretty high end equipment and learn a new skill. They were tigging coke cans back together in the class my brother took...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, not to continue any pissing matches, but for me, MIG + dremel tool = flat surface that looks like it never had a hole.

Besides, Kalashnikovs are about as close to agricultural machinery as you can get in a gun :P

 

Do you really want to invest time and money in learning to TIG properly when MIG welding will get the job done just as well in this case? I realize there are situations where TIG is the only reasonable choice, but AK receivers are thick and forgiving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TIG would be the way to go IMO, but if all you have is a MIG welder, you get everything lined up, and then instead of trying to run a bead, just pull the trigger and let go, pull the trigger and let go and if you have your wire and heat right you can daub on nice flat spots of metal that penetrate well. I have learned that by welding on auto fenders and such that are too think to weld normally.

 

I wish I could afford a TIG, but as said above if you can't chew bubble gum and walk at the same time it can be a real bitch to get good at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but Harbor Freight sells a nice little TIG machine. It does need 220v, but it comes with almost everything you need. The only things not included are the gas tank, ges regulator, welding shield, and filler rods.

The machine cost $200 a year ago when I bought mine. The gas regulator runs anywhere from $60 to $200, depending on how fancy, acquired from a local welding supply shop. The tank ran about $150 full, and I just switch it for a new full one and pay for the gas (Argon) when empty, again at a local weld supply. Got a nice auto darkening shield for $100 from same weld supply. Filler also available from weld supply.

Get some small pieces of scrap metal, or go to Lowes or Home Depot and get some of those steel strips they sell in thickness to match, cut them up with a hacksaw or grinder, and practice welding them together. Got some screwed up magazines? Generally about .030" thick, good practice.

 

Yes, a MIG machine will do hole filling and trigger guard install on Saigas, but TIG will do it neater, and when you feel like graduating up to something more challenging and needing of a TIG job, you'll already have the equipment.

 

TIG also allows you to just fuse 2 pieces together without adding filler, something you can't do with MIG.

Edited by Gunfixr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Which welding school teaches this technique?

 

If you are good at taking instruction from video, and have or can borrow the rigs, SmartFlix rents instructional videos on TIG and MIG welding.

 

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A new gas tube with the retainer already installed will cost you $15 or less.

I got mine from Cope's Distributing: Cope's.

 

If you want to learn new skills that's fine, but it would be a lot cheaper just to buy the new part.

Better yet, buy the gas tube, so you'll have a decent looking part, and then learn welding for all the other times you'll need it. :D

Edited by mini14jac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'mini14jac'

 

That's right, but why pay $15 plus shipping when I can make my own for almost nothing.

 

I could take my Saiga gas tube, grind the 3 spot welds shield off, weld the "U" shaped retainers on and have my gas tube ready for an upper handguard?"

 

The U shaped retainers could easily be fabricated with a couple of strips cut from a tin can. Cut them to length, notch several places along the inside edge so the U can go around the gas tube.

 

louielouie

 

p.s. Plus I could have the ability to weld as an alternative for attaching metal to metal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the steel on the original gas tube attachments is much thicker than a tin can,

and unless you are really good, the $15 gas tube would look a lot better.

 

But, learning a new skill always good.

 

Besides, I've just ruined 2 lower handguard retainers because I think I can make my own, so

take my advice with a grain of salt. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a very handy thread for us welding newbs! Since I don't foresee many uses of welding, a cheap MIG seems to be up my alley more. Plus I've seen pictures of good MIG weld results on SAIGAs.. it looks good to me! I may see if I can find a cheap welder to do it since it's kind of a one time thing though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bought a Miller 225W TIG welder. My only reqret is that I could not afford a better machine. Read as a higher wattage machine. Mine does not do aluminum all that well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

Tromix - Lead Delivery Systems
Dinzag Arms
CHAOS, Inc
Mississippi Auto Arms, Inc
Cobra's Custom
Carolina Shooters Supply
R & R Targets
LONE STAR ARMS
SGM Tactical
Mach 1 Arsenal
K-VAR
C&S Metall-Werkes
American Specialty Ammo
Csspecs Magazines
Phoenix Technology
Evlutionz LLC


  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...