sicktooth 8 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 ???ARE THUMB HOLE STOCKS 922r COMPLIANT??? iv been told they are no longer considered sporting and they are considered pistol grips. so that fucks everything up on my Saigunov conversion if true. can someone confirm or dis spell this please? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Some are... Some aren't. It depends... If it is U.S. made - YES. If not... NO. If you want to use Surefire .308 Hi-Cap mags, that or a gas piston will work. If you want the Hi-Cap mags and a bayo lug or flash hider, you need to add more U.S. made parts. If you want the full range of whats availble, add at least 6 U.S. parts and you'll be fine - as far as compliance. Macbeau sends... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sicktooth 8 Posted March 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Some are... Some aren't. It depends... If it is U.S. made - YES. If not... NO. If you want to use Surefire .308 Hi-Cap mags, that or a gas piston will work. If you want the Hi-Cap mags and a bayo lug or flash hider, you need to add more U.S. made parts. If you want the full range of whats availble, add at least 6 U.S. parts and you'll be fine - as far as compliance. Macbeau sends... so this is non compliant and i will need 6 US parts then correct? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mr. fudd 0 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I doubt that thumbhole stocks are considered an evil feature. Take a look at Romanian PSL's. They're made entirely overseas and last I checked, they're still being imported and sold with no compliance parts at all. The new Saiga V21 is also made entirely overseas and also has a thumbhole stock. What you're doing is recreating a PSL. As long as you avoid the high cap mags and properly attach your brake, there shouldn't be any question of compliance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 I doubt that thumbhole stocks are considered an evil feature. Take a look at Romanian PSL's. They're made entirely overseas and last I checked, they're still being imported and sold with no compliance parts at all. The new Saiga V21 is also made entirely overseas and also has a thumbhole stock. What you're doing is recreating a PSL. As long as you avoid the high cap mags and properly attach your brake, there shouldn't be any question of compliance. The PSL is incapable of taking a 'high cap magazine'. The OPs project rifle cannot say the same. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mr. fudd 0 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 If being capable of loading a high capacity mag determined 925d compliance, then ALL Saiga's without US parts would be illegal. He can load a high cap mag into his unconverted rifle as well, but his rifle's not in violation of 922r until he actually inserts the magazine into the rifle. Same deal with his conversion. It still has no evil features and if he sticks with low cap mags compliance is not even an issue. Even if he does choose to use high cap mags though, he's still OK. He's got 3 US trigger parts and when you throw in the 3 parts in a Surefire he meets the parts count. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 It is my understanding that thumbhole stocks are illegal in CA, and maybe some other states, so whatever rumor sicktooth heard might have been based on that, originally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DTakas 2 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 (edited) Edited March 28, 2008 by DTakas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greatmoose 4 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mr. fudd 0 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 There are plenty of thumbhole Saigas being sold as well. The V21 for example, as well as the ones with the rotating cheekpieces. My own opinion is that the letter in the link bears no force of law and is merely the opinion of an ATF agent. He gave a conservative answer that is guaranteed not to get anyone in any trouble. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jakemccoy 0 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 (edited) Irrelevant to most... In California, it's a pistol grip, not allowed. You'd have to fill in the hole or make other modifications to the magazine. See www.calguns.net for details. Edited March 29, 2008 by jakemccoy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter78 1 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 There are plenty of thumbhole Saigas being sold as well. The V21 for example, as well as the ones with the rotating cheekpieces. My own opinion is that the letter in the link bears no force of law and is merely the opinion of an ATF agent. He gave a conservative answer that is guaranteed not to get anyone in any trouble. Agreed. My understanding of the letters are that they are only good if the atf says that you can do something in a letter and then latter says that your rifle is uncomplient. And to my knowledge that hasn't ever been tested anyway, but for them to alow import of a thumbhole stock model such as saiga ver21 pretty much says that they are ok as long as other "evil" features are not added. example if you put a high cap magazine into your gun or a flash hider on. These laws are stupid and hard to understand, that is probably why no one has gotten in trouble for it anyway. besides if you stamp made in the USA onto it How can they prove that it wasn't or that you were not misslead by the seller. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LESchwartz 9 Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 I'm pretty sure ATF has changed their mind on T-hole stocked Saigas. However, YMMV, and someone should write ATF, reference my letter and ask for clarification. Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nmib 0 Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 I'm pretty sure ATF has changed their mind on T-hole stocked Saigas. However, YMMV, and someone should write ATF, reference my letter and ask for clarification. Larry Be interesting to see the response from them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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