.308 Win. to 7.62x39 conversion

[BATTLESUIT 0]

I want to have a Saiga .308 version 21 converted to accept AK-47 magazines and fire the 7.62x39 round. How possible/impossible would this conversion be?

 

Also, what is the best dealer to deal with if I want to purchase the .308v21 or a standard AK-47 in new condition?

[BATTLESUIT 0]

Maybe I made a mistake. Maybe the question is, do I get a .308v21 and try to covert it to 7.62x39, which for all I know could be far-fetched; or get a Saiga 7.62x39 and get the trigger assembly moved forward to the AK position. It seems either way, I have to get something smithed. What's better and easier to obtain the final product I'm after (as described above)?

 

...and I still need to know a dealer I can get the rifle and parts from

[SaigaNoobie 66]

Get the 7.62x39 and move the trigger yourself. It's EASY. I had never even picked up a dremel before i did my conversion and it came out great regardless of my lack of skill.

[shaneman153a 39]

+1, moving the trigger group forward may look intimidating, but it's very easy for someone with basic skills.

 

http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/Step_1.htm

 

Here's a step-by-step on how to do it. Start with a x39, if you converted a .308, I think you would have a lot of angry people around here!!!!

 

Welcome to the forum, check out the tech section. Lot's of good info and tutorials there.

[uzitiger 193]

Don't change calibers, if you don't like the .308 rifle trade it for a 7.62x39 one. I'm sure that many members would love to have your .308 Saiga. You're better off getting a 7.62x39 rifle if you want that caliber. Presently all calibers are in short supply and more expensive.

[Jack A Sol 2]

the 308 and 762x39 are different diameters. It cant be done.

[BATTLESUIT 0]

OK. 7.62x39 it is. Does anybody know the best place to order one of these?

[loki0629 55]

OK. 7.62x39 it is. Does anybody know the best place to order one of these?

 

Try giving this guy a call. He's local to SJ (Waterford/Blue Anchor) and did my ffl transfer for my s-12. He had several of the 7.62x39's back in December and may still have some in stock.

Auction Arms (ask for Paul)

609.412.3955

 

I have to warn you though, his house is rural and your best bet is to go there during daylight or you'll miss his driveway. He's a part time dealer and works in the Winslow PD so he doesn't really keep normal hours but I've never had a problem getting in touch with him.

[BATTLESUIT 0]

That's great, thanks a million for the heads up. The Waterford Works area isn't too far, so this is great looking out! Thanks, Gunny!

[loki0629 55]

You're welcome.

 

If he has any other saiga's in stock let the rest of us know. There may be others that are interested in them.

[getitat 609]

Hello

For me, the thing that attracted me to Saigas in the first place was that they were available in .308 instead of just the "girlie" .39.

Since then, I've gotten a .39 anyway...And a couple of s12's......

 

respectfully posted,

guido2 in Houston

[loki0629 55]

For me, the thing that attracted me to Saigas in the first place was that they were available in .308 instead of just the "girlie" .39.

 

Hell guido, I can only imagine what you think about the .223!

[SaigaNoobie 66]

I betcha I can guess what he thinks of the .223!

 

Glorified .22 Magnum.

 

For open space 500yrd shots, it's killer! For brush, doors, walls, etc. etc. etc. You're gonna need MORE POWER! and hell, even the x39 pales in comparison to the .308, 30-06 and 12ga in that order.

 

Basically, the .223 sucks but no one in the Gov't wants to take responsibility for saying so. It's a round for a different time. The x39 was designed for fighting in close-quarters urban environments. Stalingrad saw the STG44 and it's devastating capabilities. Sure the PPSH and the Mosin fended off the STG44 and Mauser, but just barely... and alot of the fighting on the Russian side was done by the winter's cold.

 

The .223 wants to be a 30-06 in miniature. Long shots, fast moving. The perfect open field rifle round. Not the perfect CCB rifle round.

[jhereg 0]

I betcha I can guess what he thinks of the .223!

 

Glorified .22 Magnum.

 

For open space 500yrd shots, it's killer! For brush, doors, walls, etc. etc. etc. You're gonna need MORE POWER! and hell, even the x39 pales in comparison to the .308, 30-06 and 12ga in that order.

 

Basically, the .223 sucks but no one in the Gov't wants to take responsibility for saying so. It's a round for a different time. The x39 was designed for fighting in close-quarters urban environments. Stalingrad saw the STG44 and it's devastating capabilities. Sure the PPSH and the Mosin fended off the STG44 and Mauser, but just barely... and alot of the fighting on the Russian side was done by the winter's cold.

 

The .223 wants to be a 30-06 in miniature. Long shots, fast moving. The perfect open field rifle round. Not the perfect CCB rifle round.

 

I have to disagree. 5.56 is a good CQB round. It's very controllable on full auto. It's easy to make multiple hits, and w/ the proper barrell length it fragments & does a lot of damage. Now if you are using the wrong bullets for your barrell length it will just icepick and not do much damage. If you are using a short barrell fragmentation range is short. W/ a 11.5" barrell it's about 25m w/ 55gr & 10m w/ 62gr IIRC. I don't see 5.56 as a good rifle for much past 200 - 300m, but up close it's very deadly. Sure it doesn't have much penetration through barrier. That's both an advantage and a problem. It's an advantage because it won't overpenetrate as much & hit someone you didn't intend. It's a disadvantage if your target is behind cover instead of concealment. IMO, the proper answer is a mix of both. I like 5.56 for the ammo cost, low recoil, and weight. I like 308 for the punch. My bugout rifle is a SBR AR15. If I needed one for SHTF at home, I'd sling the AR & start w/ something else. Probably start w/ a 308 or 12 ga.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

Don't get me wrong, a .223 will kill and IS easily controlled in FA. But .45ACP or 9mm will also kill and are also controllable in FA. .308 is Controllable in short bursts or while prone.

 

BUT, .223 turns cover for a 9mm into concealment, x39 turns cover for a .223 into concealment, and .308 turns x39 cover into concealment.

 

If OUR Team is using .223 and the enemy is using x39, they can hit us when we can't hit them. Why not use at LEAST an equally powerful round?

 

Of course you sacrifice SOME controllability when you increase power, but I'd rather have an S-12 against someone with a .223 in Close Combat Battle.

 

But that's just me.

[jhereg 0]

Don't get me wrong, a .223 will kill and IS easily controlled in FA. But .45ACP or 9mm will also kill and are also controllable in FA. .308 is Controllable in short bursts or while prone.

 

BUT, .223 turns cover for a 9mm into concealment, x39 turns cover for a .223 into concealment, and .308 turns x39 cover into concealment.

 

If OUR Team is using .223 and the enemy is using x39, they can hit us when we can't hit them. Why not use at LEAST an equally powerful round?

 

Of course you sacrifice SOME controllability when you increase power, but I'd rather have an S-12 against someone with a .223 in Close Combat Battle.

 

But that's just me.

 

You've got it backwards in regards to the penetration of 223 vs 9 or 45. A lot of police departments have gone to M16s because 5.56 overpenetrates less than 9mm. I have heard of cases where a tango was behind a wall & the 16s would not penetrate enough to stop him, but the MP5s would. Penetration is a blessing & a curse. You want enough, but too much is a big liability in the civilian / LE world. For me 5.56 makes sense for most things, but I've got others if I need them. Things would have to really blow up for me to need more barrier penetration than my AR gives me. On the other hand, I'm getting really attached to my S308, so who knows...

[saigafreake 27]

best thing to do is just get all 3 of them. thats wat i did and couldnt decide

[buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5]

Don't get me wrong, a .223 will kill and IS easily controlled in FA. But .45ACP or 9mm will also kill and are also controllable in FA. .308 is Controllable in short bursts or while prone.

 

BUT, .223 turns cover for a 9mm into concealment, x39 turns cover for a .223 into concealment, and .308 turns x39 cover into concealment.

 

If OUR Team is using .223 and the enemy is using x39, they can hit us when we can't hit them. Why not use at LEAST an equally powerful round?

 

Of course you sacrifice SOME controllability when you increase power, but I'd rather have an S-12 against someone with a .223 in Close Combat Battle.

 

But that's just me.

 

You've got it backwards in regards to the penetration of 223 vs 9 or 45. A lot of police departments have gone to M16s because 5.56 overpenetrates less than 9mm. I have heard of cases where a tango was behind a wall & the 16s would not penetrate enough to stop him, but the MP5s would. Penetration is a blessing & a curse. You want enough, but too much is a big liability in the civilian / LE world. For me 5.56 makes sense for most things, but I've got others if I need them. Things would have to really blow up for me to need more barrier penetration than my AR gives me. On the other hand, I'm getting really attached to my S308, so who knows...

 

This is an interesting topic. Just a few weeks ago I overheard a local gun shop pro tell a customer that the 223 was more effective as an antipersonnel round than the 308 becasue it was more explosive. He cited that because it's a better praire dog round that it would also be more explosive as a defense round. I really have a difficult time accepting such BS from people who know nothing about how bullets actually work. These experts just compare the "standard fare" bullet selections of one round vs another. The 308's standard load is a thin skinned deer load, and the 223's is a varmint or fragmenting round. Within limits you can do more things with more power and fewer things with less power in terms of versatility. The limit for the 308 in CQB is it's excessive flash, noise, and recoil (not that it's less effective, or can't be made to not overpenetrate). The CQB situation is one place where sometimes less is more, but too much less is less (as in 9mm not having the energy to fragment a bullet unless it's a specifically designed frangible type which is not a great choice for other reasons). It has nothing to do with blowing up prairie dogs. Had this expert seen a 308 dog bullet at work (and had otherwise been unwilling to spew crap), he'd change his tune.

[jhereg 0]

This is an interesting topic. Just a few weeks ago I overheard a local gun shop pro tell a customer that the 223 was more effective as an antipersonnel round than the 308 becasue it was more explosive. He cited that because it's a better praire dog round that it would also be more explosive as a defense round. I really have a difficult time accepting such BS from people who know nothing about how bullets actually work. These experts just compare the "standard fare" bullet selections of one round vs another. The 308's standard load is a thin skinned deer load, and the 223's is a varmint or fragmenting round. Within limits you can do more things with more power and fewer things with less power in terms of versatility. The limit for the 308 in CQB is it's excessive flash, noise, and recoil (not that it's less effective, or can't be made to not overpenetrate). The CQB situation is one place where sometimes less is more, but too much less is less (as in 9mm not having the energy to fragment a bullet unless it's a specifically designed frangible type which is not a great choice for other reasons). It has nothing to do with blowing up prairie dogs. Had this expert seen a 308 dog bullet at work (and had otherwise been unwilling to spew crap), he'd change his tune.

 

I won't ever deny that 308 is effective, and if you want the bullet to almost literally explode the little 100 - 110 grain bullets designed for the M1 Carbine are lots of fun. The 110 grain VMAX is also cool. 308 will do pretty much everything that 5.56 will *except*

1) Use a lighter rifle

2) Allow more ammo to be carried for the same weight of rifle/ammo.

3) Allow faster followup shots because of lower recoil.

 

You can get into a lot of argument about needing more shots w/ 5.56 than 308, but IMO it's a matter of shot placement, bullet construction, and luck. I can choose bullet construction. I can do my best job on shot placement, but I don't have much control over luck. There's no magic bullet. Even 12 ga slugs & buckshot are not guaranteed one shot stops. Which is why I like the theory that if it's worth shooting, it's worth shooting (at least) twice, and that's where a light carbine like an AR15 shines. Fast, accurate shots is a good thing.