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Best saiga for sniping at 500 yards


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Hello guys,

 

"admins/mods" Please allow this thread in the 3 saiga sections so i can get feedback for all saiga users,

Thanks a lot.

 

a while ago and post a similar post hoping you guys could help me pick a saiga, since i saw a very close score between .223 or 7.62 i end up buying an AK,

 

pict0664oi1.jpg

 

but the (saiga bug bite me againg) and this time is a hard one... :eek: so here i am, asking you all, one more time... which would be a good choice as a sniper weapon, .223, 7.62 or 308 and also a 16'' or 20'' barrel for (under 400/600 yards) keep in mind, accuracy, stopping power and ammo price ..., its going to be for shooting stuff like gallons of milk, dummies and steal plates at around 500 yards... but i also want a Sniper look to it. and one more thing, i'm not playing on doing a convertion, i have other weapons that i'll name just for refference,

 

Remington 700 with a 4-16X50 tactical scope (mil-dots)

AK-47

Yugo SKS

Mosin-Nagant 91/30

Mosin-Nagant M44

Savage .22

 

Thank you all for your replay!

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Gravedigging... Oh what the hell, the topic is good.       Anyone who has been in the Army or Marine Corps has been taught to know their way around a rifle and shoot with reasonable accuracy at 3

I wonder which would make the best Motocross dirt bike, a Harley Davidson Electra glide or a Honda Goldwing? I need to start a poll?

Except the OP was interested in SAIGAs, not Savages....................

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At those ranges, the Saiga is not what you want for a "Sniper" weapon. It is *NOT* a Sniper weapon...

 

In fact, you already have one... your Remington 700 (if in a decent caliber) is already going to shoot far better than anything else you have at those ranges. If not... think, perhaps about something else, like a Savage model 12 F-T/R... That will shoot VERY WELL at the ranges you want to shoot at.

 

If you want "looks"... perhaps a Romanian PSL ( Romak 3, SSG-97) is more to your needs? It will reach out to 400-500 yards and hit 10" plates all day long... it is 7.62 X 54R and takes the same rounds as your Mosin Nagants. ( Although you want to only fire LIGHT BALL, not heavy ball out of the PSL's.) That will give you almost DRAGUNOV look and decent performance.

 

:smoke:

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-The S=.308 is the best for longer range work, BUT 500 YARDS? that is the territory of $$$$$$ semi's amd most decent bolts. If you think you are going there for less than $500 --keep dreaming,

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does Saiga make a long barrel .223? Just curious, it'd be a start...

 

But ya, the Remington 700...

Hell, Mosin-Nagant 91/30 for that matter.

 

Also, Saiga .30-06 isn't an option in your survey...it should be. :killer:

Edited by Bender
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A Remington 700 LTR with a 20" bull barrel in .308 Win, sighted in at 100 yards, shooting the Federal Premium Gold Match 168 grain BTHP@

2520 FPS, but rather hear is called target shooting than sniping for certain obvious reasons...........1.7 inch sight diff...

will drop 71 inches at 500 yards.... or has a hold over or adjustment of 3.9 mils..................that's 54 clicks in 1/4 MOA...

and a 10 MPH full side wind from left or right will deflect that round 25 inches....over two feet.....that's 19 clicks in 1/4 MOA.

To me, the term "sniper" rifle has a scope that likely costs more than the rifle. You are talking presision fine-tuned repeatable optics mounted properly on a custom tuned rifle.

Saigas may, in the right hands, break ten inch plates at 500 yards. There are folk that can put five shots in the same hole at 50 yards, though.....with the right equipment. Those folk that understand the hows and whys enough to be able to do that might consistently break plates with Saigas. Almost anything is possible. It is not probable that most folk can do that. Just fine-tuning a scope to track at 12 o'clock is a time-consuming task. I agree...use the 700.

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http://www.snipercentral.com/svd.htm

svd is a 2 moa weapon... its considered a sniper rifle. (though not by sniper central)

A saiga 308 is capable of that and better with good ammo.

while a remington 700 is capable of 1/4 moa but how many guys can gauge wind for 500 meters...?

 

 

Acutally, the Soviet SVD is considered more of a "marksman rifle" - good out to 800 meters or so I saw in another thread here. Anyhoo, I agree that the S308 is certainly capable of hitting man-sized targets at 500 yards with optics installed and a good man behind the wheel.

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A saiga 308 can group around 2 inches or slightly less at 100 yards. At 500 that's 10 inches before any human error.

 

It's certainly effective if it hits at that range, but for accuracy work you may want to get friendly with your remy 700 or consider a DPMS panther if you need a semi auto for that sort of thing.

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A springfield armory m1 with a saiga sticker on it.

 

+1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

For a semi, an M1A/M14.

 

What I want to know is what is the best .25ACP pocket gun for sniping through heavy cover at 500 yards? :devil:

 

My point is the Saiga .308 is a good tool, but there are better tools for that purpose. If you are indeed interested in using a firearm for sniping, your unit will most likely issue you the correct equipment.

 

You wouldn't want to use a butter knife to carve a roast. You'd use it for spreading butter.

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.....but how many guys can gauge wind for 500 meters...?

 

 

Being in the Marine Corps we qualify annually with a 20" barrel M16A2 (5.56/.223) rifle that has a TON of rounds put through it and I can hit center mass on a man size target 8 of 10 times normally....range.....500 yards. :smoke:

Edited by MCASgt New River
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My last post on here was tongue in cheek

 

I would never have guessed. :blues:

 

The problem is, the hunting of snipe, referred to by some as sniping, is a badly misunderstood sport. The choice of tools for the endeavor is a highly personal one. Some go out armed with only a burlap bag and a flashlight.

Edited by patriot
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I wonder which would make the best Motocross dirt bike, a Harley Davidson Electra glide or a Honda Goldwing? I need to start a poll? :unsure:

actually i find the gold wing to be quite maneuverable it wheelies and jumps ok. the skid plate tends to hit when jumped but its all good

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All I can say is you guys must be young fuckers. Except for those in the Millitary, I can't find a range near home that pushes much past 100 yards, and at that range my old eyes are doing all they can to determine center mass on a 1 moa 8" target. Even with optics, it takes all I have to keep decent groups at that distance.

What kind of group spread is considered good at 500 yards? Not meaning to be a smart ass, most of my time is spent snap shooting shit on the berm rather than precission at distance.

This thread makes me want a .50BMG, but I doubt I'm worthy even if I could find some place long enough to shoot it.

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Anything under 6" CTC @ 500yds is good for a field type "Duty" bolt gun. Bench guns, of course are a whole different game, like <5" @ 1000yds.

 

Semi-auto? Whatever you can pony up the $$$$ for.

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I don't know guys, I was out last week with my saiga 308 at 350 yards (longest range i have access to) and was getting 7-8 inch groups (several 5-6 inch groups when i had no "flyer") slowfire off bench. So I would think that with match grade ammo groups sizes of 10 inches or less would be very possible at 500 yards.

Edited by GreenEye
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  • 2 weeks later...

The longest I've ran my S308 is about 700 yards, and it did just fine. I have a friend who's built a range out to 1200 yards literally off his back deck, it's awesome! It's a series of rolling hills, each crest has a set of swinging steel plates. His 700 yard plates are 10"x10", and I was able to hit those on a 65 degree, wind straight in our face at about 10mph day 8 out of 10 times on average. That was with Israeli surplus, even SA surplus was better than 50% at 700 yards. I'm working up some 175gr Berger Match VLD loads to try out to 1000 yards.

 

Sniper is more about the man than the weapon, and I'm no sniper. But if I was I'd be confident enough with practice and a Saiga 308

 

Of course, he hits about 95% of the time at 700 yards with his tricked out FN .308 ... but he had home-field :rolleyes:

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  • 2 months later...

I had asked a similar question on a different board, I will post just the answer since I do not know the rules about posting links from a different board.

 

**************************************************

 

Quote from: gunlover on June 02, 2008, 04:44:57 PM

Thanks Doc!! Sounds right to me, just so we understand one another, I am talking about a straight shot, parallel to the ground, no elevation. If the bullet was lighter, for example a 223, it would travel at a greater distance, shooting in the same position as the X39 correct?

 

Thanks again

 

 

Once again, I don't have exact figures, but working backward off the x39 (122 grain) fired parallel (flat)from the 5'3" height, the bullet would strike the Earth in almost exactly a 1/2 second, at near 377 yards., moving at about 1425 fps, with a retained energy of near 550 ft. lbs.

 

Assuming the 2400 fps initial MV, that is.

 

We can see that if any projectile has a faster muzzle velocity, and (or, in some cases) a ballistic coefficient as good as, or better than a 122 gr. Spitzer X39, then in that 0.50 second or so for dirt impact of the X39, it should travel farther from the muzzle, striking the ground further out.

 

Remember, we are talking about tenths, and in some cases, even hundredths of a second of flight time, here.

 

Neither the weight (how heavy or light, comparatively) nor the caliber of the bullet is , of itself, much of a determinate factor.

 

Muzzle velocity, and BC are more important. Actually, assuming anywhere near a good BC (I'd say .280 or better) .....Muzzle velocity becomes the most important factor.

 

{Example (1): ....a 700 grain .50BMG will, from a 30 inch plus barrel, get upwards of 2700-2800 fps MV, and it's BC is usually at least as good as the X39's. It would therefore travel further, in the flat shot, than the X39, before hitting ground, around 460 yards.

 

Example (2): a 160 grain 7mm Rem Mag, witha BC of .550 (almost as good as it gets), launched at 2700fps from a 26 inch tube , fired flat from 5'3" will hit at 460 yards

 

Example (3) the old 220 Swift, if it hit it's advertised MV of 4000 fps, with a bullet VERY similar to the .223, hits ground at 580 yards.......MV, when shooting flat, or at good zero's, seems to "rule the roost"}

******************************

 

In the case of a .223 (.224 actual bullet diameter), 55 grain, Boat Tail Spitzer, launched from, let's say, a 16 inch barrel (which, with a X39, gives us approx. 2400 fps MV) with a MV of around 2750 fps, fired in the theoretical parallel, if the BC's are near the same as the X39, you can expect bullet impact with the ground at around 427 yards, not much further than the X39 sighted in at 125 yards.

 

Sight in the .223 at 125 yards, and the bullet will find dirt at 470 yards, traveling at around 1450 fps, with a retained energy of 259 ft. lbs.

 

Not a real significant gain in "range" (50 yards over the X39), and for the X39, when it dug in at 421 yards, it still retained about 480 ft. lbs. of energy.

 

With either round, and only a 3 MPH crosswind, at impact range you'd see about +/- 10 inches of drift.

 

 

***************************************

 

Not asked, but answered.....

 

 

Both the 7.62x39, and the .223/5.56 round are, IMNSHO, realistically maxed at usability for anything much larger than varmints at around 125 yards, for most users, regardless of the accepted differences in MOA of the weapons normally firing such rounds. Maybe 150 for a really good shot, with an accurate weapon.

 

That is considering a realistic zero, a good bullet profile, enuff initial velocity, and assuming you are firing from a good solid position.

 

Yes, they can be, and are deadly at longer distances, but the question is, if the target is not static, can you hit it, where it matters, at that longer distance?

 

If firing offhand, with iron sights, and a moving target, VERY few can make reliable hits beyond the 150 yard mark.

 

This is why these are called "Intermediate Rounds".

 

As another member stated you did not add the 30-06 which you would have a better chance in hitting your target. Another point is, and I do not know if anyone here touched it, that the length of the barrel and grain of the bullet has a big influence on the distance.

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