Saigas subject to 922r rule? I don't think so.

[nalioth 405]

[Etek 32]

Edited July 4, 2008 by Etek

[okie shooter 0]

[ClickClickD'oh 1]

Ask another 'party boy' and you'll get another opinion. I did, he said that's ludicrous.

I don't suppose you would be kind enough to present to us such an opinion written by an ATF agent on ATF letterhead would you?

 

You know, to counter ATF letterhead notes readily available on this forum that directly contradict what you claim an agent told you..

 

Pending your presentation of a official letter from the ATF supporting your statement, I think it's safest for everyone to behave in accordance with already available information.

 

As for 922® prosecution. I bet it has happened several times. A very tiny portion of legal proceedings ever get any form of publicity. An inability to find a 922® case on google doesn't even remotely mean it has never happened. Heck, if news agencies ever did report a 922® violation, it's not likely they would understand 18 USC 922 at all and would likely report such a case as an illegal weapon possesion conviction.

[Etek 32]

Y'all are comparing Apples to Oranges. I'm referring to parts count on Saigas or any other firearm NOT building an a gun from parts. That law (922® ) applies to manufacturers and POSSIBLY a person assembling a firearm from a 'kit'.

The word Possession is found nowhere in 922®. Now if you ARE caught with a possibly non-compliant firearm and/or you TELL everyone that you assembled the firearm you are an idiot anyway.

Asking the BATFE for a Legal Ruling in writing about something they do not care about is just giving them ammo to use against you. All of you.

 

I suppose if you own a foriegn made pistol (Yes they must be 'Sporting' too!) and you take off the crappy grips and put a better non-'Target' grip from China you are now in violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968? How about if the adjustable rear sight breaks and you replace it with a fixed sight?

If you say yes that's preposterous and total Bullshit. No? so GCA 68 does NOT apply to you but 922® does?

And you insist the word 'Assemble' means you're in violation for putting the wrong magazine in your otherwise legal firearm? I call Bullshit. 922® is about cobbling together parts not inserting a freakin' magazine.

Now prove me wrong by writing to the BATFE and getting a ruling in your favor (And fuck things up for everybody) just so you can say "I WIN!"

[nalioth 405]

The law pertains to anyone "assembling" a firearm barred from importation.

 

The alphabet gang considers 'inserting a magazine' to be 'assembling'.

 

You can do as you like, we'll follow the law, thank you very much.

[Azrial 1,091]

Edited July 24, 2008 by Azrial

[akdog 3]

I'm not worried about the deep pockets.

 

I have no criminal record, don't do drugs, have a good job, college education and would be a perfect candidate for challenging 922r if they ever arrested someone for it.

 

I guess you can be our hero. All you need to get the ball rolling is to walk into

Carolyn McCarthy's headquarters in Long Island, NY and scream at her that

you own deadly weapons that are in violation of 922r that you modified illegally

and that neither she nor any other of her cronies can do anything about it because

the bureau of beer, cigs, and oh my godddddddd gunnnnnssssss is too stupid to know

how exactly you commited a felony. A few hours after that plan on being on all over

the national news as arrested and charged for illegally modifying guns. Don't count on the

NRA to come to your rescue, but Jesse Jackson will show up with Rosie, Bloomberg, and

Obama to feed the media frenzy with comments about how your the reason we need

tighter controls on background checks, on .50 caliber baby killer guns, on mexican

gun traffickers, and how we need serialized ammunitions so that you would have thought

twice about illegally modifying your rifle into an unspeakable death machine.

Then Paul Helmke Jr the president of the Brady Campaign will show up to blame

Congress for allowing the expiration of the assault weapon ban, the Supreme court

for allowing handguns back into daycares, and Ted Nugent for being the Joe Camel

of the Gun Lobby. All because you wanted to stir the buffalo dump.

Edited July 25, 2008 by dog

[Etek 32]

[akdog 3]

[Etek 32]

[Etek 32]

[22_Shooter 1,560]

 

Some people just don't give a shit about 922r. So be it. We can choose to be compliant, and not worry about getting screwed. Others can argue this or that, and say compliance isn't necessary, or this or that doesn't make you need to adhere to 922r......blah, blah, blah.

 

Personally, I'll make sure I'm compliant. It's not hard to do, so I don't see the point in not doing it.

[Azrial 1,091]

.....Dumb answer. Stick to the point. And my post was a QUESTION. Want to answer or post bullshit?

You're up.

 

No, you are. There is nothing stopping you from making your point. This said it all:

... I guess you can be our hero. ...

So load up the trunk with your best work, go to BATF Headquarters and call a press conference! Then in front of the disbelieving masses, like me, throw down the gauntlet and tell those bastards that you double damn dare them to step forward and try to enforce their "illegal" laws on your watch!

 

Also please start a thread here to keep us up to date on your exploits! Get someone to help, and to keep up up to date on your case, I mean if you are unable to get to the Internet for a while....

 

If you do not believe in your theories enough to do this, it is you that is wasting everyone's time posting bullshit.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not for 922R, I am against stupidity.

[Etek 32]

.....Dumb answer. Stick to the point. And my post was a QUESTION. Want to answer or post bullshit?

You're up.

 

No, you are. There is nothing stopping you from making your point. This said it all:

... I guess you can be our hero. ...

So load up the trunk with your best work, go to BATF Headquarters and call a press conference! Then in front of the disbelieving masses, like me, throw down the gauntlet and tell those bastards that you double damn dare them to step forward and try to enforce their "illegal" laws on your watch!

 

Also please start a thread here to keep us up to date on your exploits! Get someone to help, and to keep up up to date on your case, I mean if you are unable to get to the Internet for a while....

 

If you do not believe in your theories enough to do this, it is you that is wasting everyone's time posting bullshit.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not for 922R, I am against stupidity.

 

So y'all want ME to stir the Shit with the BATFE? No friggin' way guy. I know better and advise against it because THEN they can make up whatever ruling they want, probably NOT in your favor. Why fuck things up? Other dickwads HAVE asked for rulings in the past just to prove a point and it made FELONS out of thousands of people. I'll bet some Dickhead tries it with 20 round Saiga drums.

I said and I'll repeat it. I spoke to a BATFE Agent about 922® and he said it was about manufacturers NOT Joe Blow with a rifle. It was to prevent assembling by manufacturers of an otherwide un-importable weapon. If YOU manufacture a weapon from PARTS you MIGHT need to abide by 922® IF you assemble it for SALE.

So long as you do not possess a SBR, SBS or Full-Auto gun or trade in guns without a license as a private citizen the BATFE give not a shit. BATFE has regulation on INTERSTATE COMMERCE. Only if they can show that whatever happened was in fact a violation AND was in or directly effected Interstate Commerce do they have jurisdiction. Go look up the Interstate Commerce clause. 86 CFR.

Now I already asked the question but I'll repeat. Are you in violation of the GCA of 68 if you change the grips on your otherwise non-importable pistol? Or put fixed sights on it? Answer up now. Google GCA violations by private persons. Then 922®.

 

Me? I work in a Government Anti-Aircraft gun repair factory and ami in fact an agent of the DHS. If I want a gas piston for a Saiga I make it. Do I stamp MADE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA on it? Nope. Don't need to. I know that if the BATFE comes knocking THEY have to PROVE it's imported, not the other way around. And the stamp MADE IN USA or C makes it not a U.S. part. How do you KNOW it's a U.S. part? Do you think the BATFE knows? Most manufacturers DO stamp U.S. on parts. But does that PROVE it's REALLY a U.S. part? Did you watch it being made?

 

I suggest that if you assemble a firearm from non-U.S. parts that you do a reasonable job of making sure that it has no more than 10 imported parts.

But you won't really know will you? Can you prove it?

Case in point. Lotsa auto parts are counterfit/not made in U.S. but ARE marked Made in USA.

 

Buy all the U.S. parts you want. I certainly do for quality and to keep Americans in good jobs. And yes the BATFE has in the past looked for technical violations. And you hear about these all the time like slamfiring SKS, ARs, barrels 1/32 too short.

922®?

Nope.

[nalioth 405]

Edited July 27, 2008 by nalioth

[Etek 32]

"The law is the law, and advising folks to disregard it is foolish at best. "

 

I agree wholeheartedly and woud never do so. And I haven't.

 

I've SPECIFICALLY been posting about the SUBJECT which is Saigas subject to 922r rule? I don't think so.'

 

You are reading the law one way. I read it differently and asked a BATFE Agent (Got his name etc.) and he says you are wrong. I agree, verbal advice is Bullshit but it was what a sworn agent told me. Matter of fact he brought up the comparison with the GCA of 68 and said they (BATFE) didn't care what you did with your firearm so long as it wasn't full-auto or too short a barrel. This AFTER I showed him a copy of 922® (Which he'd never heard of except as applying to Importers and Manufacturers or otherwise engaging in MAKING firearms). "That's just to get them in the country" and yes that's a quote.

Besides, 922® would never stand up in court as applied to a person and they know it. They don't care.

 

Are my firearms compliant? I suppose they are but I'd have a hard time PROVING it. My WASR SEEMS to be compliant but I see no MADE IN USA on the gas piston, grip, trigger, hammer, disconnector (But I suspect they are). The FCG DOES have a tiny tiny 'c' stamped on it but I've seen a different 'C' CAST INTO parts on other WASR rifles.

My SAIGA 12 SEEMS to be compliant but the gas piston does NOT say MADE IN RUSSIA or MADE IN USA even though I KNOW it's made in the U.S. BECAUSE I MADE IT!

My other AKs are Chinese, but it was made in 1988 or so so it wasn't under 922® so it's all Chinese and the other AKs are pistols so no 922® applies there no matter how far Internet know-it-alls want to stretch the law to pistols, Saigas, VEPRS yada yada.

 

I STRONGLY suggest using any U.S. part on any AK or AK varient. Usually they are better parts/re-engineered and if we get a knucklehead in the White House it might show that you at least attempted to comply with what you thought the law was.

But if it goes that far every firearm will be in danger and even YOU know that.

[akdog 3]

Ok were done then until the next edition of "You guys have this all wrong" my

roomate's , sister's, baby sitter's, brother's yoga intructor said 922r only

applies to people who's income exceeds 6 figures. You can do whatever

you want to your gun except use uranium bullets because of osha.

Edited July 27, 2008 by dog

[Azrial 1,091]

What a huge waste of time.

[akdog 3]

What a huge waste of time.

 

I'm predicting that in the next 30 days some newbie is going to show up

and argue that Saigas are sporting and are not effected by 922r and that

there is no law that says that they can not use a high capacity magazine

in a Saiga rifle.

[Etek 32]

Edited July 31, 2008 by Etek

[akdog 3]

Edited July 31, 2008 by dog

[Etek 32]

I'll bet you believe in Global Warming too. Since "Everybody knows..."

[akdog 3]

I'll bet you believe in Global Warming too. Since "Everybody knows..."

 

I believe your full of hot air and your a troll.

Edited August 4, 2008 by dog

[Etek 32]

Oh jeez, his mind is gone.

[akdog 3]

Oh jeez, his mind is gone.

 

Edited August 4, 2008 by dog

[Etek 32]

You're scaring us now....Ahem...I'm going to say this S L O W L Y.....put the Meds IN your mouth then SWALLOW.

Or look here--------->http://www.joecartoon.com/cartoons/148-lump_the_no_legged_dog

Good PUPPY!

Edited August 3, 2008 by Etek

[akdog 3]

Look Etek, the troll hunters are coming, run Etek run.

Edited August 5, 2008 by dog

[Etek 32]

Grow up.