Limbsaver on my Warsaw Stock

[zakmatthews 14]

I've got a warsaw length stock on my S12. I'm only 5'6" but the LOP is still too short. Since there is no better option (other than that huge universal slip on rubber pad), I want a small grind-to-fit pad fitted to my stock. I know the stock needs to be squared off, and the pad will need some serious size reduction, but i know it's possible. Will someone who has done this before do mine if I pay you? Or would I be better off finding a good local gunsmith?

[Gunfixr 76]

Since you're asking, I can do it, as I've done mine. I didn't add a Limbsaver, but just added a solid rubber pad. The principle is the same.

 

If you want to tackle it yourself, it's really rather simple.

 

First, take off the metal buttplate and file/sand the stock flat. You're going to have to go down past the lip that is around the edge. A belt sander is absolutely great for this, but it can be done by hand. Use a straightedge ruler to check your flatness both ways. It doesn't have to be perfect, just pretty close. If you have a Dremel, go inside and cut down the tabs at the top and bottom to flush with the piece inside that holds the side sling mount or to the depth of the piece of plastic. Get a piece of about 1/2" plastic or a 1" board and cut it to fit inside the stock. It should be close, but again doesn't need to be perfect. If you use the board, leave it full thickness and notch the ends to fit over the tabs. The tabs will act as a stop, and keep the plastic/wood from being pushed up into the stock from recoil. Leave it just a bit high so that it can be cut to perfection later. Using an epoxy that will adhere to plastic or plastic/wood if using a piece of wood, glue in the piece inside the end of the stock, filling in any small gaps around the edges. You want full contact. Let it cure fully, and cut/file/sand it down flush with the end of the stock. You can leave the stock a tiny bit long originally and get them both where you want them at this point. Measure the height and width of the stock end and buy your Limbsaver pad that is closest, but larger. You can just use the screws to attach it, or the screws and more epoxy. After attachment, grind the pad to size, either on the stock, being REAL careful, or marking and removing first, then grinding. Personally, I like to mark it, remove it, do the heavy grinding first, leaving just a little left, reattach it, and finish it in, so that the countour matches better.

 

On mine, I just used this method, but used a 1" thick piece of solid rubber. It's a 12 ga, and has been fine. In fact, I didn't even use screws, just glue, and it's been fine. I wanted the stock the same original length, so I cut about 5/8" off, and then ground a radius for the shoulder that left 5/8" of rubber thickness at its lowest point. I was doing it because the metal plate was sliding around when shooting rapidly.

[hobbyshooter 59]

Since you're asking, I can do it, as I've done mine. I didn't add a Limbsaver, but just added a solid rubber pad. The principle is the same.

 

If you want to tackle it yourself, it's really rather simple.

 

First, take off the metal buttplate and file/sand the stock flat.

 

 

I am in the process of doing this now. I used a 5/16" flat piece of aluminum though. That's now my mounting plate that screws to the original mounting standoffs, then the limbsaver will screw to that. The holes fit just perfectly between the screws for the stock. I'll snap some pictures of it tonight. I have the limbsaver in the freezer now, and I'm going to rough shape it with the bench grinder this evening.

 

ZakMatthews: Have you taken a look at the inexpensive Tapco rubber butt pad? That might be a good starting point for you. It bolts right on so no chance of goofing it up and is much cheaper than the limbsaver.

http://www.tapco.com/proddesc.aspx?Id=9ae4...08-fe94739dc296

Edited May 8, 2008 by hobbyshooter

[hobbyshooter 59]

Here are the pics of my adapter plate fitted into the stock. As you can see by the last pic I couldn't countersink the screws good enough so I'm going to have to plunge out some clearance for those screw heads from the back of the recoil pad.

[zakmatthews 14]

I've tried that rubber buttpad. The holes don't even come close to aligning with the hollow synthetic stock. I think it's intended for wood stocks? As far as sizing the pad, can this be done with hand tools or do I need a belt sander?

[hobbyshooter 59]

I've tried that rubber buttpad. The holes don't even come close to aligning with the hollow synthetic stock. I think it's intended for wood stocks? As far as sizing the pad, can this be done with hand tools or do I need a belt sander?

No way can you cut down all that extra material by hand! I used my bench grinder and I'm very pleased with the finish it left on the rubber part of the limbsaver. It's ok though and I left extra material on it so I can go back and remove that with some fine sand paper after freezing the pad.

 

I really though freezing it would make it harder than it did. The bench grinder started feathering the rubber, then it started pulling chunks out down at the bottom where the rubber meets the hard plate of the limbsaver.

 

But like I said, it's on there and there is plenty of extra material for me to go back and remove when I feel up to it.

[zone1935 5]

don't gunsmiths use a spindle sander to remove most of the excess? I know that not many people keep one of those in the garage. would a bandsaw work?

[Gunfixr 76]

Hobbyshooter, the belt sander works much nicer if you use a new, sharp belt of about 60-80 grit. To finish it off, spray it with WD-40 and keep applying it every time it seems to be going away. I know that sounds crazy, but when you do it, you'll understand. One warning, however, it makes a real mess, and you can't use that belt for anything else afterwards because of the oil. In fact, I keep a couple of oiled ones that I put on just for grinding recoil pads.

 

 

 

I wouldn't use a bandsaw. If it pulls on the rubber, you'll end up with it overcut. It's best to just grind the whole thing, this is one of those jobs you really can't rush.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Gunfixr

[shaneman153a 39]

I really though freezing it would make it harder than it did. The bench grinder started feathering the rubber, then it started pulling chunks out down at the bottom where the rubber meets the hard plate of the limbsaver.

 

This "feathering" happened on the last one I did. I think it was a result of using a 100 grit pad.

 

Another technique of cutting/leveling the back of the stock; rather than sanding it flat, start by making a little jig to level the stock, and run her through a tablesaw for your cut. A disc sander will work just as well, but the tablesaw is faster, and leaves less black shit on your shop floor. I did this on both of mine, and had zero problems. Just make sure you level the stock by putting something under the front, and hold the back against the fence.

 

One more thing then I'll get off my soapbox; On the last one I did, I tried to correct the "feathered" look with sandpaper. What a nightmare! It has to be frozen to take it off with any consistency. Friction = heat. The surface thaws out and the sandpaper becomes ineffective after about two minutes. Also, use a block. If you hand sand, you may end up grinding away the disc faster than the rubber, resulting in the "muffin top" effect. Rookie mistake on my part, just trying to warn others so their stuff doesn't end up looking like this:

 

Edited May 9, 2008 by shaneman153a

[hobbyshooter 59]

I really though freezing it would make it harder than it did. The bench grinder started feathering the rubber, then it started pulling chunks out down at the bottom where the rubber meets the hard plate of the limbsaver.

 

This "feathering" happened on the last one I did. I think it was a result of using a 100 grit pad.

 

One more thing then I'll get off my soapbox; On the last one I did, I tried to correct the "feathered" look with sandpaper. What a nightmare! It has to be frozen to take it off with any consistency. Friction = heat. The surface thaws out and the sandpaper becomes ineffective after about two minutes. Also, use a block. If you hand sand, you may end up grinding away the disc faster than the rubber, resulting in the "muffin top" effect.

Mine is currently a little muffin topped, but I intentionally did that so I could try to remove the feathering after I had the fit right.

 

Since it feathered down at the base I think it's going to look like some level of crap regardless now. I'm going to try the WD40 trick and hand sanding the top to try & get the correct shape and remove the rough chunks.

 

It doesn't look as bad as it sounds, but it is feathered which I simply did not expect.

[Gunfixr 76]

The WD-40 lubes the grind, and will leave a nice, smooth surface. Also, when finishing, you need to go real slow and let the belt do all the work. That's why you need a good sharp belt. Fine grits (finer than about 80) clog up way too fast and try to push off the material. Anytime you're trying to push off rubber, you're going to get the muffin effect, and feathering. A sharp belt will take off the feathering also. You can do whatever you want with the contour, as long as the grit is of sufficient coarsness and sharp.

 

I've got an oiled 150 grit belt, and I never use it, except to polish the finished pad. It won't remove any appreciable amount of material. I only polish pads put on gloss finish stocks.

 

I ocaisionally fit recoil pads for customers, sometimes on rather expensive guns. If this didn't work, my customers wouldn't be happy.

 

BTW, I don't have a table drum sander, just a cheap Harbor Freight 4" wide belt sander, and it works fine. I have it set vertical, on a table low enough to be able to stand close and look down on what I'm doing, so I can see the what's contacting the belt.

Edited May 9, 2008 by Gunfixr

[hobbyshooter 59]

The WD-40 lubes the grind, and will leave a nice, smooth surface. Also, when finishing, you need to go real slow and let the belt do all the work. That's why you need a good sharp belt. Fine grits (finer than about 80) clog up way too fast and try to push off the material. Anytime you're trying to push off rubber, you're going to get the muffin effect, and feathering. A sharp belt will take off the feathering also. You can do whatever you want with the contour, as long as the grit is of sufficient coarsness and sharp.

 

I've got an oiled 150 grit belt, and I never use it, except to polish the finished pad. It won't remove any appreciable amount of material. I only polish pads put on gloss finish stocks.

 

I ocaisionally fit recoil pads for customers, sometimes on rather expensive guns. If this didn't work, my customers wouldn't be happy.

 

BTW, I don't have a table drum sander, just a cheap Harbor Freight 4" wide belt sander, and it works fine. I have it set vertical, on a table low enough to be able to stand close and look down on what I'm doing, so I can see the what's contacting the belt.

 

Interesting about the coarse vs fine grit comment. It was Limbsavers grinding instructions that recommended 240 grit with wd40 for smoothing the pad.

 

I'm doing all of this finishing sanding by hand. Thank you for your input, and based on what you have given me I think I'm going to try 80 grit, 100 grit, and 200 grit with wd40 and see how well I can polish this turd.

[shaneman153a 39]

Interesting about the coarse vs fine grit comment. It was Limbsavers grinding instructions that recommended 240 grit with wd40 for smoothing the pad.

 

I'm doing all of this finishing sanding by hand. Thank you for your input, and based on what you have given me I think I'm going to try 80 grit, 100 grit, and 200 grit with wd40 and see how well I can polish this turd.

 

Oops, one more note; I actually used WD-40 with the 100-grit. Still got a "feathered muffin". I think that is now a doctrinal term. Next time, I'm taking gunfixr's advice on the new belt, 80 grit. Gunfixr - I kinda found the disk easier to work with than the belt side of the sander, do you think that could have contributed? Should we only use the belt.

[Gunfixr 76]

While mine has the disk on the side, I've never used it on a recoil pad. If it works for you, by all means use it. In my experience, using the disk on anything often results in it being dragged down against the little table. Granted, the belt has a little table (more like a shelf) also, but I rarely use it. I much prefer total freehand sanding, working above the table. I only use the table for heavy removal on hard materials, softer ones like rubber get pulled into the belt or disk, grabbed down against the table sometimes and too much is removed before you really realize it. I get a much better feel, and better control when holding it freehand.

 

I also read the directions saying to use 200+ grit. Didn't work for me. Maybe it's some special type of grit. I did my first one by hand, what a PITA. My hat's off to you. You really need fresh grit by hand, and it's still difficult.

 

 

 

I'm gonna be at the shop tomorrow (I guess later today, actually), and I'll double check the grits I have for recoil pads. I have a couple put away that are oiled already and only used for this.

 

PS: Didn't make it today. Gastrointestinal problems through the early morning and morning, will go next week.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Gunfixr

[hobbyshooter 59]

I did my first one by hand, what a PITA. My hat's off to you. You really need fresh grit by hand, and it's still difficult.

 

I'm gonna be at the shop tomorrow (I guess later today, actually), and I'll double check the grits I have for recoil pads. I have a couple put away that are oiled already and only used for this.

I spent about 2 hours last night rubbing the recoil pad against some 80 grit then some 220 grit by hand using wd40. I couldn't really even tell a difference between the 2 grits. I wasn't doing anything to the shape of the pad, it was just polishing it out.

 

So, I decided to use WD40 and the bench grinder again. No good. It didn't pull chunks as bad, but it feathered it all up.

 

But, I now have the desired shape, and I'm going to continue to hand polish it day by day. There are going to be chunks down at the bottom right next to the back plate that I simply wont be able to smooth out, but live & learn. Maybe once I move and get a bigger garage/shop I'll go grab a belt sander from HF and try the whole thing over again with a new limbsaver.

 

PS: Didn't make it today. Gastrointestinal problems through the early morning and morning, will go next week.

Take care of yourself Sir. We need your input so our community can learn from your experience. Thanks again for all of the pointers you've given me on this subject.

[Gunfixr 76]

Thanks for the kind thoughts. It cleared up around lunchtime, GTG now.

 

I didn't realize I had that much input.