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Saiga feeding Feeding problems


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#1 TTR

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 11:12 AM

First off I'm a newby to the Saiga 12 so please excuse my lack of knowledge.

I recieved my new Saiga 12 with the gas tube adjustment set on 2. When I move the setting clockwise it will bottom out just past the 2 setting then back it off just a little and it snaps in place in the 2 setting. The adjustment tube is VERY hard to move. Had to put a flat screw driver/combination tool laid through the 2 slots sideways, depress the lock in ket and turn. Very stiff. I'll get back to this later.

My brother recieved his new Saiga 12 with the gas tube setting on 1. Now I didn't move my brothers setting because its cycles pretty good but I'll get back to his later.

OK, the first time out with my new Saiga 12 shotgun on the 2 setting the gun cycled Federal low brass with 2 failure to ejects, one each on 2 differant 10 round mags. I didn't think much of it at that time because the gun is new. The same day I fired some Remingtom 2-3/4" 00Buck and fired 10 rounds on the 2 setting without a problem.

Put the Saiga away"uncleaned" because I new I was going out again in a day or two. In the mean time I bought one of those Shark Brakes and a folding stock. I installed both. Took the shotgun out and started out and fired one 10 round mag full of 2-3/4" 0 Buck and had one FTE on the 2 setting. Took the SG out later that evening and tried some Federal Low Brass "Walmart stuff" on the 2 setting and it would not cycle not even one round. Every single round was a FTE.

I then tried some 2-3/4" Remington 00 buck and the SG cycled terribly. Almost every round was a FTE. I had 5 rounds of 3" magnum 00 buck and it fired all 5 without a problem.

I then put the gun on setting 1 (this is when I found out how hard it was to move the setting from 2 to 1. Now the SG would not cycle at all with Remington 00 buck. NADA and sometimes the spent shell stayed in the battery. Change back to the 2 setting with the same result as before I changed to 1 setting.

I got to thinking, first go back to what I changed. I changed the folding butt stock and the shark brake. I highly doubt the FBS could cause feeding problems but I remembered how the SB advertisement said it would reduce recoil by 15%. I changed back to the OEM Saiga choke on the 2 setting and the SG performed much better. 10 rounds of Remington 00 buck without a problem and 5 rounds of Winchester 00 buck with 1 FTE on the 2 setting.

I ran out of shells for now. My questions are? Could the SB cause problems? Should my SG 1-2 setting be so stiff? Should my Saiga 12 come with the setting on 2?

Where else should I look for problems.

Back to my brothers SG. We fired Federal low brass and Remington 2-3/4 00 buck on the 1 setting without a single problem.
When he changed to the shark brake and the Federal low brass would not feed at all but cycled high brass 00 buck just fine. Put the OEM choke back on his gun and it still would not cycle the low brass but cycled the high brass just fine. I'm totally confused.

Any help would be appriciated.

Tom

Edited by TTR, 21 May 2008 - 11:15 AM.

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#2 CSL USMC

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 11:52 AM

I am curious to see the replies to this thread. I am also having the same issues.

When my Saiga was new, I pulled it out of the box and ran 25 rounds of Remington Game Shot thru it with no trouble (On #2)

My understanding is; #2 is for "Low Brass" and #1 is for "High Brass & Magnum" shells.

I did a conversion using a Folding Stock and "Shark Brake" also. Then I started having FTE problems.

I fully cleaned the weapon including the gas assembly and piston, It did not help the issue.

I did use Federal ammo and I have tried Remington Game Loads also with the same trouble.

I did not try removing the "Shark Brake" to see if it helps though.

I was just going to buy "High Brass" loads to see if this solves the FTE problem.

Thoughts on this, Anyone?

















First off I'm a newby to the Saiga 12 so please excuse my lack of knowledge.

I recieved my new Saiga 12 with the gas tube adjustment set on 2. When I move the setting clockwise it will bottom out just past the 2 setting then back it off just a little and it snaps in place in the 2 setting. The adjustment tube is VERY hard to move. Had to put a flat screw driver/combination tool laid through the 2 slots sideways, depress the lock in ket and turn. Very stiff. I'll get back to this later.

My brother recieved his new Saiga 12 with the gas tube setting on 1. Now I didn't move my brothers setting because its cycles pretty good but I'll get back to his later.

OK, the first time out with my new Saiga 12 shotgun on the 2 setting the gun cycled Federal low brass with 2 failure to ejects, one each on 2 differant 10 round mags. I didn't think much of it at that time because the gun is new. The same day I fired some Remingtom 2-3/4" 00Buck and fired 10 rounds on the 2 setting without a problem.

Put the Saiga away"uncleaned" because I new I was going out again in a day or two. In the mean time I bought one of those Shark Brakes and a folding stock. I installed both. Took the shotgun out and started out and fired one 10 round mag full of 2-3/4" 0 Buck and had one FTE on the 2 setting. Took the SG out later that evening and tried some Federal Low Brass "Walmart stuff" on the 2 setting and it would not cycle not even one round. Every single round was a FTE.

I then tried some 2-3/4" Remington 00 buck and the SG cycled terribly. Almost every round was a FTE. I had 5 rounds of 3" magnum 00 buck and it fired all 5 without a problem.

I then put the gun on setting 1 (this is when I found out how hard it was to move the setting from 2 to 1. Now the SG would not cycle at all with Remington 00 buck. NADA and sometimes the spent shell stayed in the battery. Change back to the 2 setting with the same result as before I changed to 1 setting.

I got to thinking, first go back to what I changed. I changed the folding butt stock and the shark brake. I highly doubt the FBS could cause feeding problems but I remembered how the SB advertisement said it would reduce recoil by 15%. I changed back to the OEM Saiga choke on the 2 setting and the SG performed much better. 10 rounds of Remington 00 buck without a problem and 5 rounds of Winchester 00 buck with 1 FTE on the 2 setting.

I ran out of shells for now. My questions are? Could the SB cause problems? Should my SG 1-2 setting be so stiff? Should my Saiga 12 come with the setting on 2?

Where else should I look for problems.

Back to my brothers SG. We fired Federal low brass and Remington 2-3/4 00 buck on the 1 setting without a single problem.
When he changed to the shark brake and the Federal low brass would not feed at all but cycled high brass 00 buck just fine. Put the OEM choke back on his gun and it still would not cycle the low brass but cycled the high brass just fine. I'm totally confused.

Any help would be appriciated.

Tom



#3 TTR

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 12:45 PM

BTW, mine is a non-converted gun as in moving the trigger forward. The trigger is in the OEM condition.

Edited by TTR, 21 May 2008 - 12:46 PM.

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#4 ArcFault

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 01:03 PM

I don't think its odd that you received the gun set to 2 or that it is hard to turn, although with mine that usually doesn't happen until the threads get fouled up from lots of shooting. Try removing the knob and the puck piston and see how many gas ports you can see, the gas block could be covering a port.

Also, try and get in the habit of trying setting one out with heavy loads first, setting two could cause damage, especially with the magnums.

There is a lot of info on this that might help you already covered on this forum, search around.

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#5 1911

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 01:15 PM

I ran into a similiar problem and solved it by doing the following. Your mileage may vary....
1. Fired 100 rounds of High Brass 00 Buck & Slug
2. Returned home and cleaned the thing meticulously
3. Applied Weapon Shield liberally to the bolts and rails.
5. Returned to Range and fire on Setting 1 & 2 with appropriate ammo and had no0 malfunctions. Problem solved.

In the event that your is tighter or this doesn't work for you there is an excellent thread here http://forum.saiga-1...mp;hl=feed ramp

Hope that helps and good luck. More knowledgeable people will be here shortly. :)

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#6 TTR

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 10:42 AM

Thanks for the help guys. I appreciate it. I've been reading and learned alot since yesterday. I checked the SG out and I've seen plenty of areas that could use some polishing for sure. Especially where the bolt contacts the trigger mechanism on the way back and recocks the firearm. I'm going to do the work with a small block of wood and some type of sand paper. I guess I'll use a dremel tool on other parts but that scares me lol.

What grit sand paper? 600? or finer? What tip for the dremel? I read for hours and didn't find an answer to this question.

I took the foregrip off last night and I THINK I can take the barrel off with removing 2 pins and pull it out. Is that correct?

Again, thank for your help.

Tom
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#7 TonyRumore

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 11:03 AM

Pull the bolt carrier group out and insert a round in the chamber by hand. Take a look at the rim of shell where the extractor cut is, on the end of the barrel. Make sure there is enough exposed rim to allow the extractor to grab on to it.

The other issue is probably gas port related. Pull out the piston and look to see if you have four gas ports lined up in the middle of the gas block hole.

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#8 TTR

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 10:25 PM

Pull the bolt carrier group out and insert a round in the chamber by hand. Take a look at the rim of shell where the extractor cut is, on the end of the barrel. Make sure there is enough exposed rim to allow the extractor to grab on to it.


There is not much of a rim there there. I slid the extractor in by hand and it picked up the shell and pulled it out.

The other issue is probably gas port related. Pull out the piston and look to see if you have four gas ports lined up in the middle of the gas block hole.



Yes there are 4 holes right in the center. I stuck a plastic toothpick thru the holes and they were not plugged.

The rim of the gas tube adjustment was elongated and rubbing on the barrel every 1/2 turn. Thats why it was real tight. I filed it until it was round and I can now turn it with my fingers. I cleaned it up with some gun degreaser, taped it up and sprayed it with 1,500 degree header paint. Yes I have a drag race car :rolleyes:

The piston was real dirty and so was the entire tube. I mean it was really dirty with little chunks of crap in there. Should it be that dirty with only about 70 rounds thru it?

Anyway I thoroughly cleaned and liberally oiled the gun. Waiting for the paint to dry. I'll try it again on setting 1 with some high brass in a few days. Anymore ideas?
Thanks for the help guys
Tom

Edited by TTR, 22 May 2008 - 10:28 PM.

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#9 TTR

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Posted 25 June 2008 - 07:01 PM

I finially had a chance to shoot a few rounds. 20 rounds of Remington 00 buck on #1 setting 10 with the shark brake and 10 without. Then 10 rounds of Walmart Federal target loads on #2 setting. The shotgun was flawless even on rapid fire. I'm taking it out tonight and shoot some LAW ENFORCEMENT BUCKSHOT 00 BUCK somemore of the Walmart Federal target loads. I let ya know how she works.

I'm real happy as it seems the shot gun only needed a good cleaning. Thanks for all the help everyone.

Tom :rolleyes:

Edited by TTR, 25 June 2008 - 07:07 PM.

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#10 -Indy-

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Posted 26 June 2008 - 01:56 PM

the gas ports also double as wide open front doors, with a big welcome mat... into the gas system for chunks of plastic from the wad, and unburnt gunpowder residue, etc... etc....

It is NORMAL for build up to occur...

WHEN your firearm stops performing like you think it should... clean it... repeat as necessary. :up:


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#11 DavePAL84

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Posted 03 July 2008 - 11:47 PM

I did a conversion using a Folding Stock and "Shark Brake" also. Then I started having FTE problems.


Is your avatar a picture of your S12? If so, did you add the optic to the side rail at the same time you added the folder and the shark break?

I had tons of FTE problems and couldn't figure it out until this thread:
http://forum.saiga-1...showtopic=27250


Take off your optic it and inspect it for dings. It's possible that the shells are dinging off your optic and shooting back into the chamber. Seriously. When I removed my optic from the side-rail my S12 runs like a top again.

#12 TTR

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 06:10 PM

Sorry for getting back to you guys so late. I still have problems " I THINK".

Well I shot 20 more rounds of Federal target loads on setting 2 and the gun shot fine. So thats 50 rounds so far with a cleaned gun. The next (2) 10 round mags of Federal target loads had (1) FTF each. It's not being blown back far enough to catch the shell. The bolt will close to the battery position without a shell in there.

The next 10 round mag of Federal had (3) FTF's all the same way. Dang.

I changed to setting 1 and shot 10 rounds of NobelSport Law Enforcement Buckshot 00buck and had (5) FTF's. All pretty much the same way. Now I was real discussted but I got to thinking. The piston was gunked up the first cleaning. After cleaning the piston tube and piston I lubed the crap out of it with Rem oil. I shook the shotgun up and down and I could hear the piston slapping back and forth. I'm wondering if I should have lubed the gas tube and piston because the piston was kinda stuck in there again. It wasn't moving back and forth with a shake of the shotgun.

This time after a thorough cleaning with Hoppes #9 I sprayed the piston and tube with Rem Action cleaner and whiped everything dry. Then I sprayed a small amount of Super Lube Multi-Purpose Synthetic Lubricant with Teflon in the end of the tube where the piston is and also the piston. It is moving back and forth real easy again.

I fully expect the gun to function just fine now but firing only 55 rounds and it starts to act up doesn't seem right. Or is it? My questions are??
1. Should I lube the piston with what or nothing?
2. How many rounds before a cleaning is needed.
3. Any suggestions would be appriciated.

I will post back on how the gun performs as soon as I can get ahold of some cheap ammo. I have 20 rounds of NobelSport 00 buck and 10 rounds of Remington Express 00 buck ready to go for the next test.

Thanks everyone
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#13 TTR

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 06:14 PM

I really believe the problem lies with the piston.
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#14 12 Guage Ninja

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 11:16 PM

I am having the same problem.. when I first got my sg12 i shot 75 rounds of federal cheapo wally brand.. toward the end I had a few rounds hang up but just thought it was getting dirty... after that i did my pistol grip conversion as well as adding a twister puck and the gunfixers gas plug.. then i shot wally brand low brass feds and winchester. I couldnt get it to feed a single one one any setting with the gunnfixers plug and twister puck (standard). Thinking it could have been the new plug and twister puck i put the old ones back in and nothing again...not a one fed through .I took it home and cleaned it, and went back to wally and got remington target loads and winchester 00 buck. (asuming win00buck is high brass). and went back to the range. Nothing again with the gunfixers and twister puck. Nothing with the original. I tried the winchester 00buck and it would only feed on the low brass setting on both gunfixers with twister puck and original. what the hell happend to this gun!!! did i mess it up converting it or what. I have noticed there are only three holes in the gas tube as far as i could tell. I believe it is a 2009 model. I bought from Atlantic firearms. Man I need help.. got alot invested in this gun

#15 12 Guage Ninja

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 10:08 AM

i just noticed from another forum that if u change the forend of your saiga 12 there is a hole on the gas block that might not be covered up anymore. the factory forend covers it up. they suggest welding it shut. what is this hole for and should you weld it shut? help please.

#16 TARE

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 08:03 PM

look up " polishing bolt on saiga 12".

If your ports are all visable and unclogged it is most likely that your gun still has some rough edges creating additional friction that is slowing your bolt movement. Take a dremel tool with a fine sanding drum and smooth the rough edges on the hammer face and the bottom of the bolt. Next use the grey foamlike disc and use it to get the paint off and smooth contact areas on both the bolt assembly, bolt carrier and hammer face. Next change your dremel to the polishing wheel and using a polishing compound go over your work. There is a great writeup about this on this site, but thats my readers digest version of it. I think you'll find the puck and piston are non-issues, also the shark brake doesn't lower the pressures in the barrel or the gas tube, its more like an extension of the barrel in the way it effects gasssing, so you should find that it does not contribute to your problem, if fact it should be allowing slightly more pressure in the gas system.




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