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Polish Tantal versus Saiga .223


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I'm seriously considering getting a Polish Tantal (especially since 5.45 is so cheap). My worry is that the Saiga .223 will just be better in everyway, and I would feel like getting the Tantal was a wasted effort.

 

So I ask if in some ways, "Is the Tantal better than the Saiga .223?" Aside from the cheaper ammo of course.

 

Anyone who is familiar with the Tantal is free to respond with whatever input you have.

 

If I buy one, it would be a Century build. I live in S. Florida and my local dealer works well with Century. When I got my Yugo Under, he made sure I got a good one.

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One other question. . .

Is the Tantal (floating barrel), more or as accurate as a Saiga .223 using Wolf ammo?

 

BTW I realize this thread is more about the Tantal than the Saiga .223. If a Mod feels it belongs in "Other Ak's," please feel free to move it.

Edited by dobravery
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A well built Tantal is worth it, especially if you're able to buy 5.45x39 by the case lot for dirt cheap...

 

Shot the Polish Tantal this weekend (combatmedic's). Super nice.

 

I was surprised by the very little recoil and rapid cycle rate. He took it down for me and I was impressed by the workmanship. I also like the ambidex safety.

 

He was using the russian surplus ammo which functioned very well. My understanding is there is and air bubble in the anterior aspect of the bullet.

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I consider it a coin toss. I have both and consider the Saiga a better shooter in terms of feel and accuracy. I'm not a big fan of the wire stock used on the Tantal and lack of a side mounted optics rail. With that said, any of my complaints could be easily corrected and the 5.45 is waaaaaaaaaay cheaper than .223. The Tantal is just kind of cool in it's own way too.

Buy whatever you like the most first, odds are your going to end up with one of each at some point. They're both quality guns.

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One other question. . .

Is the Tantal (floating barrel), more or as accurate as a Saiga .223 using Wolf ammo?

Not sure where you heard this, but the Tantal has the same barrel plumbing as any other Kalashnikov.

 

No floating.

 

 

Any properly (re)manufactured 5.45x39 will shoot where you point it.

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The 223 outclasses the 5.45 in just about every measurable way in terms of performance. The waay cheap 5.45 is not in global demand for a reason.

 

The 5.56x45 does outperform the 5.45x39 by a small margin, but not really that much - not that would really matter IMHO. The reason that it's on the way out is that it is a product of the old soviet union. If we had fallen instead of them, then the 5.45 would be the one increasing in usage right now...

 

It is general consensus among the gun nuts on the boards that the 5.45x39 is THE best buy in milsurp ammo right now - $120 per 1080 round can is too good not to take advantage of. The cheapest .223 is twice that...

 

Well worth getting a 74 clone if you don't have one... and want to stock up on some ammo - which is advisable if you want to be able to enjoy a reasonable range session from time to time (shoot a couple hundered rounds and get in some good practice) - or for more serious reasons.

 

Tantal is a good rifle - nothing special in terms of desgin, just a quality 74 clone with an effecient brake.

 

IMHO

 

Oh and if that sounds like I'm saying to get the tantal over the saiga (and convert it), I'm not - I would suggest getting both! :D

Edited by O.S.O.K.
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My bad about the "floating" barrel. Actually it is the gas tube that is allowed to sit loosely between the block and the trunioun (it does not clamp down under the rear sight I guess).

 

I think I'm going to pass on the Tantal. Any deal I'd get would only be on the Century builds. Even if the Tantal was built with TLC, I'm hearing a lot of people having mixed results with the barrels being used. A lot of keyholing going on. The word is that they use barrels designed for .223, and that some ammo works ok with this, while some does not. I can understand a cheap WASR requiring some internal work to bring it up to par, but I think the Tantal price crosses the threshold of a firearm being good to go. I'm also not crazy about the idea of buying a can of surplus that ends up shooting horribly.

 

Anyone out there shooting a Century Tantal?

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The 223 outclasses the 5.45 in just about every measurable way in terms of performance. The waay cheap 5.45 is not in global demand for a reason.

 

The 5.45 mm seems to have performed quite well for the Soviets in Afghanistan. In fact, it was so effective, that the Mujahadeen had nicknamed it the "poison bullet" and complained to various human rights organizations about it. It had a tendency to hit one part of the body and come out somewhere else entirely, causing a whole lot of damage in between. It did prove to be less well suited for the more urban style of combat in Chechnya though. The 7.62x39 mm proved superior at punching through various cover.

Edited by SpetsnazGRU
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Get the Tantal, get some ammo use it and see how it shoots and if works good.

 

If everything OK get all the ammo you can buy, latter on if you change your mind

can always sale it. Guns are not getting cheaper as time passes by.

 

The 5.45x39 is not a bad round, I have go true 1/4 of a inch plates and still hit

stuff in the other side at 100 meter like nothing. If you get surplus FMJ some will be

with the hollow space under the tip of the jacket, that makes the bullet tumble

as it hits stuff, but some surplus don't have it. Still I will don't want to be hit

with any I guess will put some hurt.

 

And yes the stuff is cheap compare to anything else, I just got Russian HP of .223

abut 110.00 for 500 rounds and that was the last on that price, when you can get

5.45x39 cost about 118.00 to 120.00 for 1000 rounds.

 

Look in here.

 

http://www.southernohiogun.com/ammo.htm

 

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Bulgari....45x39_FMJ.html

 

 

Get the Russian at AIM but the Bulgarian still hurts at SOG.

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I've read several reports of the century Tantal having problems with bullet tumble. Reports are that the barrel is a 5.56 not a 5.45. There is another member here complaining about this in the other AK section.

 

 

I was thinking on the Atlantic fire arms tantals, I really don't read the hold post of

dobravery when he say on the bottom of getting a Century built one . I don't know about Century

ones, I have never got anything from them cause of reputation but for what I see is hit or miss

big time with them, I mean you can get a decent shooter or the worst crap, some guys swear by them

and some swear at them. That is the problem if you get a lemon you are screw. And if what uechiguy says is true

you really screw if they do 5.56 barrels to be use on 5.45 what kind of accuracy can you get out of those guns.

 

dobravery if I was you I will tell my gun dealer to look into Atlantic firearms tantals but

you do what you think is right by you.

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http://www.btammolabs.com/fackler/ak74_wou...g_potential.pdf

 

The 223 has been demonstrated to fragment out to about 250 yards or better, and it also tumbles beyond that. All the 5.45 does is tumble, maybe. The nickname of the poison bullet came about due to the residual wound related problems, not because of immediate effectiveness.

 

It turns out that little bit better performance of the 223 means everything in terms of fragmentation of FMJ's. Of course you could load up any bullet you want, but with the 5.45 you selection is very limited. Also, most people want one for the cheap FMJ stuff that's so readily available (but not much of a performer).

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I'm going to pass on the Tantal. I know the best advice is to get both. If you consider the price difference between the two rounds (223wolf v 5.45 surp) and that a Tantal is about 500-600 for a complete rifle, I'd have to shoot about 5,000 rounds of 5.56 before I'd start losing money by not buying a 5.45 rifle. My frequency of shooting isn't that high. I'm still open to getting a 5.45 rifle if I come across a deal. It seems here in S Florida, firearms stuff is over priced, so I'm not expecting anything. I was nearly shocked to find my local dealer sells 7.62 x 39 Wolf at 4.50 a box, that's only $125 plus tax for 500.

 

I think it's better for me to spend money on my 223 conversion for now.

 

BTW I saw the other member's post about Century Tantal's and it pretty much reaffirms what I've been reading on the web. If I were able to legally own an automatic rifle, a Tantal would be awesome.

-Controlled automatic fire.

-Single / Auto / or 3 rnd burst selections.

-Cheap ammo to blow through it.

Edited by dobravery
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