Anyone just leave off their buttstock?

[chris in va 0]

[terrace_mountain 0]

I'm not an attorney, but without a buttstock what you have done is made a rifle into a pistol which is illegal.

[NCLivingBrit 0]

I'm pretty sure that as long as his barrel is at least 16" long and his overall length is 26", the presence of the buttstock is irrelevant.

 

For one thing, I know a rifle with a folding buttstock has to be at least 26" closed, as it can be fired in that fashion. If he cut his barrel down to less than 16" or the overall length was less than 26" then it would be an SBR, which would require a $200 tax stamp. I think pistols have to be assembled as such on pistol registered receivers, if you make a too-short rifle it's an SBR rather than a pistol.

 

HOWEVER, I'm not an expert, I just play one in my head

[mini14jac 1]

I've got a folding stock on mine, so it meets all the length requirements.

But, I've never fired it folded, for two reasons:

 

1. Regardless of what you see on TV and the movies, it's just about impossible to hit anything with any weapon, if you're not actually using the sights.

 

2. Ammo is too expensive to waste like that.

 

The reason for a folding stock is to make it easy to transport the weapon.

There are AK pistols, but I believe to have any kind of accuracy with them, you extend them out in front of you, keeping pressure on the sling, and use the sights.

So, you end up shooting them just like a rifle.

 

Someone will come along and correct me if I'm wrong.

[jamesavery22 54]

If you convert a rifle into a pistol(no stock) there are definitely laws around it... What those laws are I haven't a clue Its either straight illegal or it needs a tax stamp. If you want a AK pistol it might have to be bought as a pistol...

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I'm pretty sure that as long as his barrel is at least 16" long and his overall length is 26", the presence of the buttstock is irrelevant.

 

I think I read the same thing as NC said above. Just removing the stock isn't turning it into a pistol, because the barrel would still be 16".

 

Now, I don't see the efficiency of it, but hey, to each his own.

[jhereg 0]

I'm not an attorney, but without a buttstock what you have done is made a rifle into a pistol which is illegal.

 

 

A rifle must be at least 26" OAL, and have a bbl of at least 16". Beyond that it *may* have a buttstock, or vertical grip on the front. it is not required to meet anything but the length requirements and the other requirements such as a rifled barrel, and not be a DD (Destructive device.) Lots of people put a pistol grip on a shotgun. As long as you stay at or above the legal limits on length you can do it w/o registering it as a NFA weapon. Even if you want to get below the length limits, it's legal if you get the paperwork approved w/ a tax stamp before you do it.

[RangerM9 1]

I'm not an attorney, but without a buttstock what you have done is made a rifle into a pistol which is illegal.

 

 

A rifle must be at least 26" OAL, and have a bbl of at least 16". Beyond that it *may* have a buttstock, or vertical grip on the front. it is not required to meet anything but the length requirements and the other requirements such as a rifled barrel, and not be a DD (Destructive device.) Lots of people put a pistol grip on a shotgun. As long as you stay at or above the legal limits on length you can do it w/o registering it as a NFA weapon. Even if you want to get below the length limits, it's legal if you get the paperwork approved w/ a tax stamp before you do it.

 

 

this is all correct.

 

Someone else mentioned that the gun had to be 26 inches over all with the folding stock closed - that is NOT correct, it must be 26 inches overall with the stock in the extended position.....

 

i did a ton of research on that point some time back while trying to figure out how to get the most compact 10/22 package i could work out....then got into Saigas, and well.....here i am......and the 10/22 is still in long config...

[jhereg 0]

Someone else mentioned that the gun had to be 26 inches over all with the folding stock closed - that is NOT correct, it must be 26 inches overall with the stock in the extended position.....

 

It doesn't have to be 26" OAL w/ the buttstock closed under federal law. I believe CA requires it to be 26" collapsed or folded. There may be one or two other states w/ that requirement. (I haven't paid much attention to which states have that requirement, but I know there are at least 1 or 2.) It pays to check both federal & state law when you are playing close to the legal limits.

[chris in va 0]

Thanks guys. My Saiga measures 24" without the stock. That's ok, I got my K-VAR stock in today so I'm happy!

[Twinsen 86]

Oh god, you broke the law by putting it together without a stock then! AGH! ATF ATF!

[csspecs 1,987]

Uhh did you measure from tip of the barrel to the tip of the rear tang? Because that should be 26 1/4 inches or so.

[CheepJerokee 0]

If u don't have a stock, bolt a broom stick to it with wood screws. It would make it legal!

[chris in va 0]

Uhh did you measure from tip of the barrel to the tip of the rear tang

 

Actually no, just to the back of the receiver. Forgot about the tang.

[mstranglr 9]

California law is goes way beyond fed law:

 

Semi-auto centerfire rifle = 30" minimum (with stock folded)

 

All other rifles = 26" (with stock folded)

 

These lengths do not count muzzle devices that are not permenently attached (welded on).

 

you need to check your local laws, as they may also be worse than the fed law.

[Vultite 57]

as far as i know, if the gun doesn't have a stock, its a pistol no matter the barrel length, unless its got a stand mount or some sorta setup like that, which is a totally different game, but the best thing i've seen, and i wish i woulda saved the pic was someone converted a gun with the HK collaspable stock which goes all the way back to the receiver, i thought that was pretty neat, worth taking a look at.....

[csspecs 1,987]

as far as i know, if the gun doesn't have a stock, its a pistol no matter the barrel length, unless its got a stand mount or some sorta setup like that, which is a totally different game, but the best thing i've seen, and i wish i woulda saved the pic was someone converted a gun with the HK collaspable stock which goes all the way back to the receiver, i thought that was pretty neat, worth taking a look at.....

 

 

Nope, what is born a rifle stays a rifle. Barrel length MUST be over 16 unless you get a tax stamp. Overall MUST be 26 inches with the stock or whatever to the furthest extension.

[jhereg 0]

as far as i know, if the gun doesn't have a stock, its a pistol no matter the barrel length, unless its got a stand mount or some sorta setup like that, which is a totally different game, but the best thing i've seen, and i wish i woulda saved the pic was someone converted a gun with the HK collaspable stock which goes all the way back to the receiver, i thought that was pretty neat, worth taking a look at.....

 

Nope. Just like "Once a machinegun, always a machinegun" if it starts as a rifle, it will always be a rifle. You can start w/ a pistol, put a long barrel, and stock on it (in that order) and go back to a pistol, but if it's a rifle it will always be one.

[Vultite 57]

as far as i know, if the gun doesn't have a stock, its a pistol no matter the barrel length, unless its got a stand mount or some sorta setup like that, which is a totally different game, but the best thing i've seen, and i wish i woulda saved the pic was someone converted a gun with the HK collaspable stock which goes all the way back to the receiver, i thought that was pretty neat, worth taking a look at.....

well i knew that, what i was trying to say is that if you remove the stock from the rifle, no matter the length, in the eyes of the man, you just tried to make a pistol from it, which is a no no

[jhereg 0]

as far as i know, if the gun doesn't have a stock, its a pistol no matter the barrel length, unless its got a stand mount or some sorta setup like that, which is a totally different game, but the best thing i've seen, and i wish i woulda saved the pic was someone converted a gun with the HK collaspable stock which goes all the way back to the receiver, i thought that was pretty neat, worth taking a look at.....

well i knew that, what i was trying to say is that if you remove the stock from the rifle, no matter the length, in the eyes of the man, you just tried to make a pistol from it, which is a no no

 

That's not true. A rifle *may* have a stock or a verticle grip. As long as you are over the minimum lengths you can reconfigure it at your whim. A pistol may *not* have the stock or verticle grip as long as it's under the legal limits for a rifle on barrel length and overall length. per the TC decision you can convert the pistol to a rifle and back, but there is a bit of debate on that subject. I personally don't see how there is much to debate about the TC decision.

[rangerdavid 6]

I havn't removed my buttstock, but it fell off the other day. I was thinking kinda the same thing, that it would make a hell of a pistol.... have since lock-tited the bolt and its much more solid now.

[tonerange 0]

I'm not an attorney, but without a buttstock what you have done is made a rifle into a pistol which is illegal.

 

 

A rifle must be at least 26" OAL, and have a bbl of at least 16". Beyond that it *may* have a buttstock, or vertical grip on the front. it is not required to meet anything but the length requirements and the other requirements such as a rifled barrel, and not be a DD (Destructive device.) Lots of people put a pistol grip on a shotgun. As long as you stay at or above the legal limits on length you can do it w/o registering it as a NFA weapon. Even if you want to get below the length limits, it's legal if you get the paperwork approved w/ a tax stamp before you do it.

 

 

this is all correct.

 

Someone else mentioned that the gun had to be 26 inches over all with the folding stock closed - that is NOT correct, it must be 26 inches overall with the stock in the extended position.....

 

i did a ton of research on that point some time back while trying to figure out how to get the most compact 10/22 package i could work out....then got into Saigas, and well.....here i am......and the 10/22 is still in long config...

 

while this is all well and true how many of you plan on havin the atf run through your house and discovering you new mod? i mean honestly un less of course your doing competitions and what not i"ve turned mine into a "ak pistol" but its only for the house my local range hasn't said anything about it

[tonerange 0]

I'm not an attorney, but without a buttstock what you have done is made a rifle into a pistol which is illegal.

 

 

A rifle must be at least 26" OAL, and have a bbl of at least 16". Beyond that it *may* have a buttstock, or vertical grip on the front. it is not required to meet anything but the length requirements and the other requirements such as a rifled barrel, and not be a DD (Destructive device.) Lots of people put a pistol grip on a shotgun. As long as you stay at or above the legal limits on length you can do it w/o registering it as a NFA weapon. Even if you want to get below the length limits, it's legal if you get the paperwork approved w/ a tax stamp before you do it.

 

 

this is all correct.

 

Someone else mentioned that the gun had to be 26 inches over all with the folding stock closed - that is NOT correct, it must be 26 inches overall with the stock in the extended position.....

 

i did a ton of research on that point some time back while trying to figure out how to get the most compact 10/22 package i could work out....then got into Saigas, and well.....here i am......and the 10/22 is still in long config...

 

while this is all well and true how many of you plan on havin the atf run through your house and discovering you new mod? i mean honestly un less of course your doing competitions and what not i"ve turned mine into a "ak pistol" but its only for the house my local range hasn't said anything about it

[jhereg 0]

while this is all well and true how many of you plan on havin the atf run through your house and discovering you new mod? i mean honestly un less of course your doing competitions and what not i"ve turned mine into a "ak pistol" but its only for the house my local range hasn't said anything about it

 

It's easy enough to follow the law in this regard. I make sure it's of legal length, or make sure I have the proper paperwork *before* I make it into a NFA weapon. The odds of getting caught for it are fairly low. If you get caught, the odds of them doing anything about it beyond confiscating the weapon may be low depending on your location. The consequences if you get caught, prosecuted, and convicted is severe. I have absolutely *NO* desire to be a felon, so I try to be informed & avoid even the appearance of impropriety. I don't care if other people do it. I won't inform on someone, but I resist the temptation to play w/ toys I don't have the paperwork for.