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Did you know that 52 of the 55 signers of The Declaration of Independence were orthodox, deeply committed Christians? The other three all believed in the Bible as the divine truth, the God of scripture, and His personal intervention.

 

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It is the same congress that formed the American Bible Society. Immediately after creating the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Congress voted to purchase and import 20,000 copies of scripture for the people of this nation.

 

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Patrick Henry, who is called the firebrand of the American Revolution, is still remembered for his words, "Give me liberty or give me death." But in current textbooks the context of these words is deleted. Here is what he said: "An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

 

These sentences have been erased from our textbooks.

 

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Was Patrick Henry a Christian? The following year, 1776, he wrote this "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here."

 

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Consider these words that Thomas Jefferson wrote on the front of his well- worn Bible: "I am a Christian, that is to say a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our Creator and, I hope, to the pure doctrine of Jesus also."

 

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Consider these words from George Washington, the Father of our Nation, in his farewell speech on September 19, 1796:

 

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"It is impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible. Of all the dispositions and habits that lead to political prosperity, our religion and morality are the indispensable supporters. Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that our national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."

 

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Was George Washington a Christian? Consider these words from his personal prayer book: "Oh, eternal and everlasting God, direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the lamb and purge my heart by the Holy Spirit. Daily, frame me more and more in the likeness of thy son, Jesus Christ, that living in thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time obtain the resurrection of the justified unto eternal life. Bless, O Lord, the whole race of mankind and let the world be filled with the knowledge of thy son, Jesus Christ."

 

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Consider these words by John Adams, our second president, who also served as chairman of the American Bible Society.

 

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In an address to military leaders he said, "We have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and true religion. Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

 

How about our first Court Justice, John Jay?

 

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He stated that when we select our national leaders, if we are to preserve our Nation, we must select Christians. "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian Nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

 

John Quincy Adams, son of John Adams, was the sixth U.S. President.

 

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He was also the chairman of the American Bible Society, which he considered his highest and most important role. On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."

 

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Calvin Coolidge, our 30th President of the United States reaffirmed this truth when he wrote, "The foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our country."

 

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In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution: "The congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools."

 

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William Holmes McGuffey is the author of the McGuffey Reader, which was used for over 100 years in our public schools with over 125 million copies sold until it was stopped in 1963. President Lincoln called him the "Schoolmaster of the Nation."

 

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Listen to these words of Mr. McGuffey: "The Christian religion is the religion of our country. From it are derived our notions on character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free institutions. From no source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. From all these extracts from the Bible I make no apology."

 

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Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian, including the first.

 

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Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original Harvard Student Handbook rule number 1 was that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the scriptures:

 

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"Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdom, let everyone seriously set himself by prayer in secret to seek it of him (Proverbs 2:3)."

 

For over 100 years, more than 50% of all Harvard graduates were pastors!

 

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It is clear from history that the Bible and the Christian faith, were foundational in our educational and judicial system. However in 1947, there was a radical change of direction in the Supreme Court.

 

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Here is the prayer that was banished:

 

"Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee. We beg Thy blessings upon us and our parents and our teachers and our country. Amen."

 

In 1963, the Supreme Court ruled that Bible reading was outlawed as unconstitutional in the public school system. The court offered this justification: "If portions of the New Testament were read without explanation, they could and have been psychologically harmful to children."

 

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Bible reading was now unconstitutional , though the Bible was quoted 94 percent of the time by those who wrote our constitution and shaped our Nation and its system of education and justice and government.

 

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In 1965, the Courts denied as unconstitutional the rights of a student in the public school cafeteria to bow his head and pray audibly for his food.

 

In 1980, Stone vs. Graham outlawed the Ten Commandments in our public schools.

 

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The Supreme Court said this: "If the posted copies of the Ten Commandments were to have any effect at all, it would be to induce school children to read them. And if they read them, meditated upon them, and perhaps venerated and observed them, this is not a permissible objective."

 

Is it not a permissible objective to allow our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments?

 

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James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United States, said this: "We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."

 

Today we are asking God to bless America. But how can He bless a Nation that has departed so far from Him?

 

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Most of what you read in this article has been erased from our textbooks. Revisionists have rewritten history to remove the truth about our country's Christian roots. I , Mary Jones, the designer of this web page, encourage all who read and agree with the words herein, to share it with others, so that the truth of our nation's history may be told.

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I'm honestly not sure whats on the other side, if anything. But I will say that the bible helped give our society a "do unto others as you would have done unto you" attitude that worked well for a couple of hundred years.

 

Now that they are withdrawing its teaching in schools and the government itself and people are forgetting its teachings, a 'do unto others and don't get caught" or "do unto others and run like hell" attitude has taken over, and IMO that is causing a lot of the everyday troubles that are plaguing our society today.

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Was it on here, or a thread somewhere that the new coins and other money no longer have "In God We Trust" on them? thats pretty bad.........

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Was it on here, or a thread somewhere that the new coins and other money no longer have "In God We Trust" on them? thats pretty bad.........

 

 

the thread was here, but the content was not true, in god we trust is still on the coin, but is carved into the edges rather than the faces....

 

Guys.....i'm all in favor of people worshiping in whatever way they want in this nation so long as they do it peacefully and don't attempt to force their will on others. The nation was founded by christians, and yet they afforded us so long ago freedom of religion. Nice of them.......i often think our founding fathers were far more open minded than people today.

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i often think our founding fathers were far more open minded than people today.

 

+1, today we are a nation divided on many levels. "In God We Trust" Wiki. I think "E Pluribus Unum" is less divisive. Regardless, the "golden rule" is pretty universally accepted, if not followed.

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VERY well put together. I applaud your efforts. a very appropriate use of one of the Four Boxes.....the Soap Box. Thank you 1911!

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Thank you for letting the light shine. Enjoy your many great informative topics. We all should cultivate walking in the spirit before it is to late.

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I think too many people think you only have the freedom of religion as long as its a christian one.

 

I belive that freedom of religion includes freedom from religion as well. Like it or not, more people have been killed in the name of god than any other reason.

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I think too many people think you only have the freedom of religion as long as its a christian one.

 

I belive that freedom of religion includes freedom from religion as well. Like it or not, more people have been killed in the name of god than any other reason.

 

 

I agree, many people have been killed in the name of religion. Man has a unique way of screwing up the best of plans when left to his own devices. Religion is a good example of what happens when one screws around with the bible for selfish reasons. Jesus was provided as a means and a way for us to have relationship with our creator if we choose. Jesus did not come to start a religion but to provide a means for relationship with God leading the way, not us. So examine your choices and choose carefully what you choose to believe, our immortal souls depend on it.-- Lord free us from religious spirits that seek to confuse us and do us harm.

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what's your point 1911? my country was also founded on Christian morals so many years ago. and most of our morals today are still christian heritage. nothing wrong with that, obviously.

 

but that doesn't mean we can't divert from it where we deem necessary (abortion, contraception, marriage,...).

 

if your point is that "because we were once like this, we still have to be today", then that is pretty moot, since 5000 years ago we were all worshipping nature gods and whatnot, and i'm sure you wouldn't suggest going back to those. ;)

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what's your point 1911? my country was also founded on Christian morals so many years ago. and most of our morals today are still christian heritage. nothing wrong with that, obviously.

 

but that doesn't mean we can't divert from it where we deem necessary (abortion, contraception, marriage,...).

 

if your point is that "because we were once like this, we still have to be today", then that is pretty moot, since 5000 years ago we were all worshipping nature gods and whatnot, and i'm sure you wouldn't suggest going back to those. ;)

What I am suggesting or in your words "my point is" that things went along quite well before people started choosing to "divert from it where we deem necessary". Our plans can never be better than those laid out by God. I am telling you that your country is screwed up, as is ours because of the choices that we have made to deviate from the Biblical Principles upon which our Nation was founded. If we followed the Principles upon which this country was formed socialism would not be an option. I thought that with my caveat in the header to this post you would be the last person I would see in here arguing. With a good cliche I would tell you, "Go fly a kite SUA".

 

1911

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Yes.. 1911, your research is germane, correct and factual. Unfortunately, this info is only relavant to individuals such as yourself or me. The left cares not about real truth, only their truth which is fallacy. They really believe their re-written history. Case in point, The book "Guns in America". Total 100% lies, but the press and the left embraced it as gospel. Even after some truth seeking individuals verified the lies and "made-up" bibliography the press still said it was factual. Their mantra is "lie to people long enough and they will accept it as fact"!! Is it not peculiar that since God was removed from school or the American public arena the decline of this society parallels that and worsens as this fundamental right is constantly attacked? As somebody pointed out 5k years ago we worshipped trees and what have you, this is false. The Jews were well aware of God and his omnipotence. As were the believers of Islam 5000 years ago. So that is a moot point. Regardless, the rejection of God or Christ today is that to follow that path is to attempt a life of righteousness which is immensely difficult and necessates a change of lifestyle.Therein is the challange. Some days I do not know if I can do it. Most are not willing to give that up. If it feels good do it as long as nobody gets hurt. What a lameass excuse. Remember personal responsibility? I speak of the U.S.. Europe is a cesspool where secularism rules. Nobody has rights, they are held "hostage" by fringe lunatic religious fanatics and by this I mean if you speak out against them you may die or they will riot. That is crap regardless of beliefs. This is coming here to a neighborhood near you. At least for now, you riot in my neighborhood the "ole M60" will start to bark. It is the opposite here. Everyone has religious freedom as long as it is not Christian. There are charletans in Christianity as well. I personally do not care for tele-evangelists.

There are good ones, Billy Graham comes to mind, but I feel many are about their real god--MONEY. The human condition is such that we seek a higher power. This is why ancients who had no idea of God worshipped the sun god or harvest god. A higer power. In modern America today that is "little green men" or gray? Before the "60s and the beginning of the free-love, flaunt the establishment, do drugs, don't trust adults, no personal responsibility era. You never heard of "aliens". If they are capable of inter-intrastellar travel and now everyone has a camera,why are they not guests on Oprah or just land on the White House lawn? They have to hide? Come on Man!! Alien reports increase as God is decreased. The free-love people, of which I was not one, I grew up in the late'70s, are the people making the laws today. Ain't that scary. Not to sound apocalyptic, but Christians will face persecution. Maybe that is why the free-love lawmakers want your guns. That is what we "cling" to, isn't it? Guns and religion.

Edited by U.S Praetorian

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What I am suggesting or in your words "my point is" that things went along quite well before people started choosing to "divert from it where we deem necessary".

and at what point do you figure we started diverting from it? last i checked, the US constitution wasn't a carbon copy of the bible. there would be a lot more stoning and stuff in it if it were.

 

so strictly speaking you guys never started off "from it" and were already "diverting from it" from the start.

 

hell, all religious christians i know divert from the bible. probably better that way, or they'd be killing their children for lying to them and stuff like that.

 

might i also inquire as to why you thought that people "went along quite well" before we diverted from the bible? while i'm no expert, i do believe that in those days americans made quite short work of exterminating many indian tribes and such. i wouldn't call that getting along well.

Our plans can never be better than those laid out by God.

which god?

your god? your neighbour's god? your elected politician's god?

i don't have a god, so i suspect my god doesn't count at all then?

 

I am telling you that your country is screwed up, as is ours because of the choices that we have made to deviate from the Biblical Principles upon which our Nation was founded.

well, i'm quite happy my country didn't stick to (all) the biblical morals which helped shape our constitution. not that i say morals, rather than principles or whatnot. most of my morals are actually quite christian, believe it or not.

 

but isn't it a tad egocentrical of you to proclaim that adhering to the "biblical principles" that founded the country are the right choices for the country today simply because those are the same as your own religious principles? just because it works for you, doesn't mean it works for everyone.

 

while i'm an atheist, i don't force anyone to follow that stance. i'm quite happy with other people believing in the Flying Spaghetti-Monster or the Cellestial Teapot, as long as their beliefs do not interfere with mine.

by pressing back to those biblical principles of yours (who were never fully in the US constitution either), you are probably interfering with other people's lives.

If we followed the Principles upon which this country was formed socialism would not be an option.

how does socialism fit into this? you kinda lost me there.

or is this just the part where you just lump all the things you dislike together and deliver them in one package for good measure?

(for the record: the part i vote for is center-right, so i don't care too much about socialism either)

I thought that with my caveat in the header to this post you would be the last person I would see in here arguing.

the history and truth bit? i'm quite fond of history, actually. helps to put things in perspective.

 

as for truth? it doesn't offend me in any way? though i should note that (quite contra-intuitively) truth is subjective. not to mention that truth is hard to find, and even harder to face.

 

With a good cliche I would tell you, "Go fly a kite SUA".

oh, why do you hurt me so? :(

i'm but a poor eurotrash, i don't even own a kite...

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The left cares not about real truth, only their truth which is fallacy. They really believe their re-written history.

left or right, i doubt it has much to do with it. every man will believe his truth. sometimes even after the fallacies have been pointed out.

 

Case in point, The book "Guns in America". Total 100% lies, but the press and the left embraced it as gospel. Even after some truth seeking individuals verified the lies and "made-up" bibliography the press still said it was factual. Their mantra is "lie to people long enough and they will accept it as fact"!!

going down a dangerous slope there, my good man. your bible is far less easy to verify than this "Gun" book was. the very concept of what you just explained can quite easily be turned against you:

"Case in point, The Bible. Total 100% lies, but the christians embraced it as gospel. Even after some truth seeking individuals identified various inconsistencies and the lies, through scientific and historic means, they still say it is the only truth. Their mantra is "lie to people long enough and they will accept it as fact"!!"

 

voila. not hard at all. just because you call it a religion doesn't make it any different.

 

not that i mean to offend you, but you ought to be careful how you word your logic.

 

As somebody pointed out 5k years ago we worshipped trees and what have you, this is false. The Jews were well aware of God and his omnipotence. As were the believers of Islam 5000 years ago. So that is a moot point.

i thought that first records of judaism were dated around 4500 years ago, but anyhow, it's quite possible that it was earlier, i won't contest you on that.

 

but add another 20.000 years and then yes, no more judaism, islam or whatnot. the religions at those time were not even monotheistic. the question remains, why were these religions inferior to yours? isn't it possible that in another 20.000 years people will look down upon you, as you do upon those people that believed in nature gods?

 

Regardless, the rejection of God or Christ today is that to follow that path is to attempt a life of righteousness which is immensely difficult and necessates a change of lifestyle.Therein is the challange. Some days I do not know if I can do it. Most are not willing to give that up. If it feels good do it as long as nobody gets hurt. What a lameass excuse. Remember personal responsibility?

people will live by their morals. (note that the law, is usually a reflection of the current state of morals, but not quite)

where you get these morals matters eventually little. you could get the same set of morals from education as you get from religion, for instance. it's not the "how", it's the "what" that matters.

 

much in the same way: which is the more moral person? the one who acts by his personal morals, just because he believes it is the right thing to do, OR the believer, who acts the way he does because he fears retribution from a vengeful god?

 

I speak of the U.S.. Europe is a cesspool where secularism rules. Nobody has rights, they are held "hostage" by fringe lunatic religious fanatics and by this I mean if you speak out against them you may die or they will riot. That is crap regardless of beliefs.

what's your point? do a few too many abortions in the US and some religious nutjob will off you regardless. ;) (and here i'm even taking a less controversial issue...)

the comparison is not an easy one. we're talking of totally different social settings (eventhough we're all 'western' countries, so imagine the trouble of comparing a western country with an asian one, for instance).

 

*snip*

kinda drifting off here, i think. aliens replacing god?

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"while i'm an atheist, i don't force anyone to follow that stance. i'm quite happy with other people believing in the Flying Spaghetti-Monster or the Cellestial Teapot, as long as their beliefs do not interfere with mine."

 

If that is true then I would ask you to kindly quit trolling my thread. I don't think that trying to help you understand would be profitable for either of us.

 

Over and out.

 

1911

 

p.s. - suggest that you inquire of Juggernaut as he is much more open to your thoughts than I.

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"Case in point, The Bible. Total 100% lies, but the christians embraced it as gospel. Even after some truth seeking individuals identified various inconsistencies and the lies, through scientific and historic means, they still say it is the only truth. Their mantra is "lie to people long enough and they will accept it as fact"!!"

 

voila. not hard at all. just because you call it a religion doesn't make it any different.

 

not that i mean to offend you, but you ought to be careful how you word your logic.

 

 

It's one thing to have a difference of opinion......

 

You were making a decent discussion of it and then you went here.

You say you don't mean to offend when you knew damn well that this post would!

 

On this I have to agree with him.

Just because you do not agree with him does not give you the right to troll the thread.

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And if your Europe is so great, why then do you live here? Wouldn't be cause you can't have guns there would it? You are entitled to your opinion however, no amount of anything can convince otherwise and 1911 did say if this offends you do not read!. I love how people that hate this country so much all want to live here. Please do not paraphrase my quotes out of context and apply them to address a subject, the Bible in this case and then suggest how I should word my logic. I was not comparing and contrasting the two. That was your illogical extrapolation.

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Our founding fathers made a choice and I for one am grateful that I am able to benefit from their choices over two hundred years later.

 

For those that understand, remember always that the victory is already ours who are in Christ. We fight not for victory but from victory. The victory just has to be enforced. This is no time to be complaisant.

 

Have courage my brothers in Christ, and keep the faith no matter what. We know how the story ends.

 

For those of you who don't understand, it saddens and angers me. I pray that you will develop the desire, and the understanding, that was resident in the hearts of the founders that enabled us to have the freedoms that some of us take for granted. God Bless America!

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"while i'm an atheist, i don't force anyone to follow that stance. i'm quite happy with other people believing in the Flying Spaghetti-Monster or the Cellestial Teapot, as long as their beliefs do not interfere with mine."

If that is true then I would ask you to kindly quit trolling my thread. I don't think that trying to help you understand would be profitable for either of us.

problem is, that what you said, WILL interfere with other atheists...

 

and just because we don't see eye to eye on everything doesn't mean i'm "trolling" anyone.

 

You were making a decent discussion of it and then you went here.

You say you don't mean to offend when you knew damn well that this post would!

so, just because you point out the same logic used in someone's reasoning can be turned against him, it's no longer a "decent discussion"? you lost me there, Will.

 

And if your Europe is so great, why then do you live here?

i don't?

 

Wouldn't be cause you can't have guns there would it?

i own 4 right now, with 2 more down the pipe by the end of the year. what's your point?

 

you shouldn't believe everything you read, nor should you extrapolate it to all european countries. Finland for instance sells over the counter suppressors, without registration. Switzerland allows full automatic weapons, if you apply for the correct license (which is actually easier than in the US).

 

me? i just have to jump a few administrative hoops and then i can own pretty much everything short of full auto weapons.

You are entitled to your opinion however, no amount of anything can convince otherwise and 1911 did say if this offends you do not read!.

one doesn't need to be offended to reply? there's a difference between being offending and thinking that a thread could use a reply other than "+1".

 

I love how people that hate this country so much all want to live here.

i don't. on both counts...

 

i don't hate the USA at all, but i'm not particularly drawn to it to live there either. i'm just fine where i am.

 

i wonder why americans always assume that because you don't agree 100%, you immediately "hate the USA". the whole "with us or against us" mentality really isn't anywhere close to reality.

 

Please do not paraphrase my quotes out of context and apply them to address a subject, the Bible in this case and then suggest how I should word my logic. I was not comparing and contrasting the two. That was your illogical extrapolation.

just illustrating a point...

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Wouldn't be cause you can't have guns there would it?

i own 4 right now, with 2 more down the pipe by the end of the year. what's your point?

 

 

While I have only been to Belgium a very few times and am, admittedly, lacking in gun law knowledge of the Belgiques, I lived for many years in Das Bundesrepublik Deutschland and was always impressed by their gun laws. Go to the proper admin office of the Polizei, fill out the forms and -- voila! -- you then have your waffenerwerbschein -- your purchase permit. Very similar to the pistol permit we get here in NC. You can then go to the gun shop and buy your handgun. Forgot -- you also get your waffenschein which is your permit to actually possess the gun.

 

To buy ammo, although it requires another permit (the munitionerwerbschein or ammunition acquisition permit), it's no big deal.

 

All in all, probably easier than in NY City, Chicago or SanFrancisco. Adding to the beauty of it are the 'sport' hotels scattered across the country where you can stay and also use their on-site pistol/rifle ranges and then enjoy a meal... with your firearms and ammo at the table!

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so, just because you point out the same logic used in someone's reasoning can be turned against him, it's no longer a "decent discussion"? you lost me there, Will.

 

 

 

Then, let me use your logic.

You say the Bible is 100% lies.

 

I don't believe that.

But since you do, and you think if you keep telling your lie about the Bible that everyone will start to believe it.

 

So, if I choose not to believe you, then you become a liar.

And as a liar I cannot believe anything you say.

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The bottom line of the aforementioned hijack is that in America you are free to believe whatever religion, including the lack thereof, even if it's incorrect, as long as you do not harm others. Whether you like it or not, America was founded by CHRISTIANS, on CHRISTIAN ideals. As such, it has become the shining city on the hill for the rest of the world to look up to and strive to emulate, not envy and tear down to their level.

 

I suggest you read the Federalist Papers. They will show you the background for our Nation.

 

Federalist Papers

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While I have only been to Belgium a very few times and am, admittedly, lacking in gun law knowledge of the Belgiques, I lived for many years in Das Bundesrepublik Deutschland and was always impressed by their gun laws. Go to the proper admin office of the Polizei, fill out the forms and -- voila! -- you then have your waffenerwerbschein -- your purchase permit. Very similar to the pistol permit we get here in NC. You can then go to the gun shop and buy your handgun. Forgot -- you also get your waffenschein which is your permit to actually possess the gun.

 

To buy ammo, although it requires another permit (the munitionerwerbschein or ammunition acquisition permit), it's no big deal.

 

All in all, probably easier than in NY City, Chicago or SanFrancisco.

well, i do believe it became a little harder lately, but not by incredibly much.

Adding to the beauty of it are the 'sport' hotels scattered across the country where you can stay and also use their on-site pistol/rifle ranges and then enjoy a meal... with your firearms and ammo at the table!

well, displaying your weapons while eating or even just drinking is "not done" here. the law doesn't allow it.

 

also, have you ever been to the large ranges in Switzerland? now THAT is class. german ranges look meager compared to those. they're totally awesome. not only do they have a lot of long ranges (up to a mile or so), but they also have indoor (read UNDERGROUND carved into the mountain) ranges with 300m ranges, with -obviously- no wind at all. and coupled to that a nice bar and a restaurant. it's great, i wish we had stuff like that.

 

as a sidenote: how is your health holding up? i hope you're doing ok.

 

Then, let me use your logic.

You say the Bible is 100% lies.

i didn't say the bible is 100% lies. i simply used the bible as an example. you know that in an example, you illustrate something and you don't really need to believe what you're saying, right?

 

but that said, no, i don't believe in the bible, but i wouldn't go as far as saying it's 100% lies. there are passages with some historical accuracy, so i could never say it's 100% lies.

 

I don't believe that.

But since you do, and you think if you keep telling your lie about the Bible that everyone will start to believe it.

So, if I choose not to believe you, then you become a liar.

And as a liar I cannot believe anything you say.

so because i voice the fact that i have different beliefs than you do, i automatically become a liar?

 

and no, as i said, i'm quite fine with the fact that you believe what you believe as long as you return the favor, so what could i possibly gain by "repeating a lie, until people start believing it".

The bottom line of the aforementioned hijack is that in America you are free to believe whatever religion, including the lack thereof, even if it's incorrect, as long as you do not harm others. Whether you like it or not, America was founded by CHRISTIANS, on CHRISTIAN ideals.

you'll note that regardless of the socalled hijack or trolling, i never contested that.

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Minor point of clarification here -

 

It was stated earlier that Islam is 5000 years old. That's false. Islam was founded by the Prophet Muhammed in 661 AD, and is the newest of the world's major religions.

 

Mike

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