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Saiga 12 for home defence?


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For additional "non lethal" rounds, check out this website. I'm a member of the Hi-Point forum and someone posted this site. I've never seen so many 12ga variations. I'm not affiliated with them, so sorry if this is wrong.

 

http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__18/Speciali...l_ammuniti.html

 

I know it's personal choice, but I cannot see any situation where I as a civilian would find less than lethal ammo out of a shotgun to be a good idea. If you use it you have to explain to the cops/judge/jury why you were justified in shooting a firearm at them. You apparently thought it was necessary to shoot, but you weren't sufficiently concerned to use normal defensive ammo. :cryss: That sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. My defensive shotgun is loaded w/ 00 Buck & has Slugs on the side if I should need one. I won't shoot to kill. I'll shoot to stop. I just want the threat to stop, and if they live or die will be up to the paramedics. Playing w/ less than lethal stuff is liable to either get you killed when it doesn't work, or sued later if it does. No thanks. On the other hand, if you do it, let me know how it works out. :devil:

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I allways figured I'd Die Trying to decide witch gun to use Personally I'd really hate to have bleeding ears from firing a S12 indoors.. What would you use?

 

M4 Ar-15 with a AAC M4 2000

SWD Mac-11/9 in full auto with a CAC9 supressor

Powdersprings 45 MAC with no can

HK Tactical with a ATAS suppressor

Glock 19

Rugar 22/45 with a SRT suppressor

Saiga 12

 

Decisions Decisions

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For additional "non lethal" rounds, check out this website. I'm a member of the Hi-Point forum and someone posted this site. I've never seen so many 12ga variations. I'm not affiliated with them, so sorry if this is wrong.

 

http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__18/Speciali...l_ammuniti.html

 

I know it's personal choice, but I cannot see any situation where I as a civilian would find less than lethal ammo out of a shotgun to be a good idea. If you use it you have to explain to the cops/judge/jury why you were justified in shooting a firearm at them. You apparently thought it was necessary to shoot, but you weren't sufficiently concerned to use normal defensive ammo. :cryss: That sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. My defensive shotgun is loaded w/ 00 Buck & has Slugs on the side if I should need one. I won't shoot to kill. I'll shoot to stop. I just want the threat to stop, and if they live or die will be up to the paramedics. Playing w/ less than lethal stuff is liable to either get you killed when it doesn't work, or sued later if it does. No thanks. On the other hand, if you do it, let me know how it works out. :devil:

 

I totally agree.

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Hmmm, Well I guess I'm the only one who uses a pump as my HD gun for purely political reasons.

What I mean is:

1) How do you keep from looking like a "bloodthirsty gun-nut" when they pull out Exhibit A and its a huge scary Russian assault shotgun with all those "evil features" all over it? I think it just looks bad. I know, I know, that shouldn't matter but it does.

2) I think just about any shooting (even justifiable/self defence) will give the Saiga-12 a HUGE reputation as being a "problem weapon" possibly resulting in it being declared a DD, just like our old friends the Striker and the USAS.

3) If I shoot somebody with any gun, I'm losing that gun. It will be confiscated as evidence and no one will care that I never got it back.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the S-12 is vastly superior to other shotties and I think its a shame that these political motivations and judicial paranoia prevent me from using the best weapon available.

 

Just my opinion. :shame: <---(Ashamed of not using S-12 for HD)

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My mossberg 500 Pump has a 18 1/2 inch barrel with heat shield, and a Knoxx Copstock wire top folding stock.

 

Its a black evil looking pump shotgun. I doubt if it would look much better sitting on the evidence table than the Saiga 12 :bad_smile:

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Me I keep these on my bed and feel perfectly safe at night...

ok, keep pumping your shotguns with my full auto :haha:

 

post-5578-1213471309_thumb.jpg

 

I don't like pump guns and I don't own any.

 

That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with them for HD.

Edited by Joe Blasco
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I have my ear plugs, sun glasses and Serbu Super Shorty AOW mounted on my bed side board loaded with 15 pellet 3" mag 00 buck. If I miss em with three shots at least they will be blind and deaf so I can beat them to death with it. Gonna upgrade to a new 8" S17 as soon as I get it from Tony.

 

post-7963-1213126806_thumb.jpg

 

I know it is a defense situation, but arent you worried about going deaf firing a shotgun inside?

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I sleep soundly usually. Wife will use the Saiga 12, AK-47 or .380 Bersa on anything that pops up. She also appears on Fox and Friends. Gotta love a gal like that.

Use whatever is close and preferably LOUD.

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I did not mean to cause undue alarm about losing your weapon. The fact of the matter is that it will be taken as evidence, thrown into an evidence locker, possibly have the case number etched on it with an electic pen and in general abused. Most police view guns as a tool and give them about as much respect as a 9/16" combination wrench. You will probably get it back after the trial but it will be in less than pristine condition, in all likelihood. That said, my or my families life is worth more than any gun that I own and some of them are very costly. Just use common sense. If you have a $4,000 custom 1911 and a $900 Dan Wesson 1911 then use the cheaper if possible. Never tried a throw down guin in a legal shooting. If they didn't do ballistics you might get away with it. I am not suggesting (nor would I) just surmising. In the final analysis you should have two of whatever is most valuable to you. :) (Wives excepted, of course)

 

1911

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A shotgun, no matter what make, model or action type, is NOT in my HD lineup.

 

I use an SBR'd AR15 with a suppressor as my primary and a G34 as a secondary, both guns have mounted lights.

 

But as far as my opinion of the OP's question, both choices will serve you well IF you practice with them.

 

Also, I am not a huge fan of "less lethal" rounds, but again that is just my humble opnion.

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I feel that NFA items like SBR's and Suppressors make the ideal Home Defense setup... however, it would be interesting to see how the law enforcement department would handle them.

 

 

I am curious because the argument that you are a "bloodthirsty gun-nut" is abated somewhat since the Sheriff personally signed off that you are completely competent to own those items. However, a suppressed short barreled AR-15 looks intimidating if a lawyer is trying to show that you use excessive force.

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I guess that the answer to this question depends on several variables. One is how often do you practice with the S12? The auto will have a more difficult manual of arms. It will be slower and more difficult to clear a jam.

 

Also, how well does your particular S12 run?

 

There is no one answer for everyone.

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How do you keep from looking like a "bloodthirsty gun-nut" when they pull out Exhibit A and its a huge scary Russian assault shotgun with all those "evil features" all over it? I think it just looks bad. I know, I know, that shouldn't matter but it does.

I know that gun owners have been charged with various things because their CCW weapon was deemed too powerful by a zealous DA but does anybody know of any such case where somebody shot an invader in their own home and subsequently got in trouble because of the weapon he used?

 

Just curious if we are speaking hypothetically here or if someone knows of any 'unfavorable' case law on this particular issue.

Edited by ilsrwy27
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  • 2 months later...

I know this is resurrecting an old thread, but here is an idea: live in a place where overzealous DA types are more likely to be happy that you killed a crook than pissed that you did it with a mean-looking gun. Live in free states, gentlemen, and the jury will say, "damn, that guy had it coming."

 

Also, it goes without saying that the circumstances of the shooting and being able to articulate fear of death or grievous bodily harm are far more important to the outcome of your eventual trial.

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I would go with a pump action with less lethal ammunition, cause just like Jettster

put it I'd rather my wife wound than kill someone. By the way my Rem. 870 pump

has never failed me.

 

post-1182-1213148501_thumb.jpg

 

Both of my 870s failed me. Thankfully it was on the trap range. Broken ejectors in both cases. My Mossy 500 has never failed me but it sits in the back of the safe since I got an S12. The only problem I've ever had with an S-12 is that deformed top round jamming. Now I load the installed mag one short. No mas problemos. As for less-than-lethal ammo. No thanks. If I or my wife have to shoot someone I want them to stay down. Especially if there's more than one BG.

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After modifying my BHO I am 100% trusting of my S12, I used it to qualify with the PD in which I'm a reserve on, that way if it ever comes up in court I can say that I'm state certified with the weapon :devil: (I also qualify with my CCW G26). The S12 amazed several officers as they watched me qualify with it :super:

I wouldn't hesitate a second to use the Saiga for home defense, if they take it for evidence I'll either wait it out, or build another one (I'm thinking that would be a good excuse for buying another one, call it a preemptive purchase :lolol: ) I'd rather be alive and safe with my family than to use a less than optimum tool for the job, tools are replaceable, people aren't. JMHO

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