swiftvision 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 OK so I shot the Saiga...... And I have to say that the recoil is so bad that I'm thinking about selling it. I have shot other shotguns with shorter barrels and NONE kick even 20% what this does. It's so bad that I can get off more rounds out of a pump on target then the 5 out of the Saiga. And the 5 round thing is rediculous. It's just not engough for this type of shotgun. Thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tomac 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 1) What gas setting are you using? Shooting full-power loads on the '2' setting will definitely increase perceived recoil! 2) What kind of stock are you using? 3) Was your Saiga converted and if so, who converted it? If they opened up the gas ports too much you'll definitely feel it! I use a Romy folder on my Saiga-12s and it takes about 30+ 00 or slugs before I start to feel it with the gas port set to '1' for full-power loads. Tomac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
use2b 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 1) What gas setting are you using? Shooting full-power loads on the '2' setting will definitely increase perceived recoil!2) What kind of stock are you using? 3) Was your Saiga converted and if so, who converted it? If they opened up the gas ports too much you'll definitely feel it! I use a Romy folder on my Saiga-12s and it takes about 30+ 00 or slugs before I start to feel it with the gas port set to '1' for full-power loads. Tomac I also use the Romanian folder as it comes. I fired 10 rounds Rem 3" mag yesterday in my T-shirt and have no marks and i did not think it was bad at all. Gas setting -#1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 For the people posting how the recoil was for them (including the thread starter)--please post your height-weight so we know what sort of build you've got. At 5'10"/130# I take recoil a lot differently than a 5'8" 200# bodybuilder would. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
edgo 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 My converted 12 tis very manageable. I've been looking forward to letting my wife try it out. Ed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 the max dram loads out of my s12 when it is set to the wrong gas setting of #2 is pretty bad, but I like all of that, so no big deal. still is nothing like a double barrel trap gun or even a mossberg pump, and everyone thats shot my s12 agrees. maybe its the round. try low brass skeet rounds on setting #2... Im 6'2" 230 and i have no problems emptying the 5 rounds out of my s12 with even one hand in 5 seconds or less, and can even control it well enough to hit stationary targets like that most of the time. slugs, buckshot, 3" 23/4" or skeet rounds, makes no difference to me. I guess im funny like that... for a 12 gauge it kicks like a pussy cat. weight the buttstock with a sandbag and try that. it should lessen the kick some even adding a 1/2 pound, although it might unbalance quite a bit on you if you put too much weight in it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tomac 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 I'm 6'1", 190lbs. Tomac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GTwannabe 1 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 I have a 19" and shooting 00 buck recoils about the same as my SKS. I've only shot it on the magnum (1) setting, and it doesn't chuck the shells more than a few feet. Slugs on the other hand, are a very different story! Remmington 1oz slugs kick like a mule and wing shells out at least 18 feet. Nice fireball in front of the barrel after each shot! I picked up some Brenneke KO slugs... maybe they'll feel different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 yeh? put that same shell out of a pump. tell me the pump kicks less. the butt of the saiga seems like it sends the recoil to the edges to me. I have someone's s308 wood stock on my s12 now, so i dont hvae that problem, plus i have a little extra weight to boot. rubber on the buttplate and a little bit of extra weight go a long way in my book, with this gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CIB 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 Now that I've got the gas settings down, I can empty the mag as fast as I can pull the trigger with the low brass promo loads. But yeah, the max dram eq. buckshot loads are pretty stiff. I'd agree not like a Moss. pump though. I'm 5'9'' and 155lbs. I think part of it is that the standard AK buttstock is alot smaller than your standard run of the mill commercial shotgun stock. So your taking the recoil in a smaller area. I'm going to try and find a rubber recoil pad to put on mine, soften the recoil some and add a little to the length of pull. Any opinions on that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 My Saiga will only fire high powered shells. And Im 6' 230, and yea, the kick is pretty rediculous....everyone that has shot it agrees. It's pretty much an uncontrolable firearm. I have a romy folding stock on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 (edited) OH and I have the recoil pad on the Romy. How do you know what setting you are on? I know it has 1 and 2 but there is not area to tell which one its on? Is it when the little circle pops up? Cuz I wasn't on either one then when I shot it last. Edited December 23, 2004 by swiftvision Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 Ahhh, I believe we've found the problem. Improper gas settings. Would someone who actually has a Saiga already care to detail the proper solution? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 Anyone thought to try installing one of them lil rubber recoil buffers in their saigas to reduce Recoil??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 screw your gas plug (the part with the actual 1 and 2 on it) all the way IN. till it is in. dont tighten it. unscrew it LESS THAN one turn until it is on either 1 or 2 for your shell. my plug passes one very close to "all the way in" when i back it out, and then passes #2. you should NOT unscrew it any further.........is that the problem? if too much gas is leaking back through that part, it could send the bolt back too fast. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 fortunately, this is a KALISHNAKOV! it can take it some, and unless you put 2000 rounds down it like that, it should "fix" by turning the plug all the way in then backing it out. 1 everything else 2 lightest loads srew it down first, then back it a partial turn out till you hit a number... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cesiumsponge 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 5'8" 175 I can shoot the Saiga 12 no problem. Of course it kicks more than an AK but I would say it's managable. Mine has the Ace skeletonized with a 1/2" recoil pad and the buffertech recoil buffer. It's also converted to evil assault style with a vertical grip so maybe the handling characteristics are a bit different with that forward leverage. I didn't have issues doing doubletaps on it. It sure as hell is MUCH easier on my shoulder than my friend's 870 Police Magnum 20"...that thing hurt with the stock walnut furniture and recoil pad. Now it has the PG and synthetic folding and I don't even want to touch it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 everyone that has shot it agrees. It's pretty much an uncontrolable firearm. Not controllable? Lots of us are using them in action shooting competitions. The other day I had some new shells to use at a match. I asked the SO if I could test fire some. I like to test at speed as that seems like where most of problems occurred. I dumped 5 or 6 rounds into the berm. I'd guess I was running .3 splits as I wasn't moving the shotgun, but just hammering the same spot. Honestly can't say that I even thought of the recoil till this thread. I'd say it was controllable as I dug a little hole in the berm. Not unusual for a match to have a speed stage designed NOT to require reloads. I'm looking at the last match results in another window. 5 or 6 clays (can't remember) about 2 yards apart from each other on stands. Starting from low ready. Semi's where shooting in the mid threes. Best that day was 2.98. I shot a 3.19 and was going slow as I had only owned my 12c (LEO) for a few hours and hadn't got used to the sights. Other times (Black Creek, Mick Porno) start standing with with shotgun on the ground at your feet. Mick got second fastest that day (beat me by .49 seconds ). While it's fun to reminicse, the point is to say if the shotty seems uncontrollable, definitely look to see what's wrong with the gun. In games designed to measure speed (and reloading) the Saiga really doesn't give any ground. I'm told that it cycles a little faster than most semi's (how do you measure that without going full auto? heheheh) Slugs/buck are definitely stiffer, but still don't bother me a bit. I haven't shot my 11-87 for a bit, but I think it is a little more recoil than that. No where near the recoil of my Mossy 590. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnnymceldoo 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 My Saiga will only fire high powered shells. And Im 6' 230, and yea, the kick is pretty rediculous....everyone that has shot it agrees. It's pretty much an uncontrolable firearm. I have a romy folding stock on it. You shortened the barrel and didnt open the gas ports thus you can only fire heavy loads. Heavy loads are going to kick no matter what but put that same load in a pump and see how you like it. Your stock could play a large part of it too. IVe got an ace folder that has a thick .5" rubber pad on it and very confortable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 make or buy a recoil buffer pad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 Johnny, Did you get the email I sent you? What loads are you able to fire now? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swiftvision 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 make or buy a recoil buffer pad I think I will get a recoil buffer and see how it works. I mean, the thing tries to shoot it's self out of my hands! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lagomorph 0 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 5' 8" 140 lbs I have no problem with recoil on either setting when firing magnum loads. I can shoot 3" mag all day long and not have a brused shoulder. I use the buffer technologies buffer and ace skeleton stock too. Magnum slugs out of the saiga are the worst load in my opinion, shooting them out of my 870 is 10x worse. The most punishing thing ive ever shot was my dad's 450 nitro express 3 1/4" double rifle, it hits harder than most bolt action .50 cal rifles. The thing gave me a headache after 4 rounds. But every one who has shot my saiga has loved the experience. I'm the reason Birdv got his. The only person who hasn't liked my saiga is my girlfriend, but shes a wiennie, so she doesn't count. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 Felt recoil can be a matter of the stock not fitting YOU. Try lengthening the butt with a pad. It should be whatever length that will allow you to pull it into your shoulder, and curl shoulder into the but firmly and maintain your normal sight alignment. My 03-A3 was a shoulder killer untill I put a 3/4" slip on but pad on it. The difference is amazing! Any slack between shoulder and butt will allow the gun to accelerate into instead of with you. I have the factory stock on my S-12 and the recoil was no problem even when I had a broken left collar bone(shooting right handed). G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
johnnymceldoo 0 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 Johnny, Did you get the email I sent you? What loads are you able to fire now? I havnt checked e-mail but I can say that I can fire any 12gauge load so long as its either 2 3/4 or 3". I kept enlarging my ports till it would cycle light target loads on the light gas setting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
screaming eagle 0 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 5' 9" 185 lbs pistol grip & east german folding stock w/ 2 layers of 550 cord wrapped around the steel butt plate & a green black jack buffer. It most difinately kicks less than my 18" mossberg 500 & 20" mossberg 590 using slugs or 00 buck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
edgo 0 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 For kicks I put a couple of Remington Duplex 3 inch turkey loads through. I'm 6'2", 190 and it almost jumped out of my hands. There is no way I'd put it up on my shoulder. I think it could break a collarbone. Ed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mickporno 0 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 THIS BAD MOTHER KICKS LIKE A FRIGGIN' MULE!!!.....I LOVE IT!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jon elia 0 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 maybe you aught to find someone with a saiga 20 and see about a trade or something...i havn't got a chance to fire a saiga shotgun but...some people just dont like recoil my girlfriend cant shoot my saiga the 7.62 version cuz it kicks too much but me and my buddys shoot 3 1/2 nitro mags out of his pistol gripped mossberg...now those kick.....see about the 20 tho..what do they say 75% of the lead 50% of the recoil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
use2b 0 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 THIS BAD MOTHER KICKS LIKE A FRIGGIN' MULE!!!.....I LOVE IT!!! Damn that is a bad to the bone. what is it and what mag is that? -----does not look like one of my bored day = got to do something builds! I would like to revisit recoil for a moment. when I went through Parris Island in " The Day " we used the M14. I watched very small guys mostly from the country handle the recoil without a problem at all. as a matter of fact we had marines who were under size and under weight because of recruitment problems during war time that could handle that rifle with no problem. I then saw 200 pound city boys who had never shot a gun get their face busted up because they were afraid of the recoil and did not put their shoulder into it properly. so this is a subjective subject. at 134 Lbs I could handle a M60 from the hip even though I was headed backwards as long as the trigger was pulled , I could still control it and hold the barrel from rising for at least 50 rounds. I would suggest a rubber recoil pad because they compress , distribute , and release the energy over a longer period of time rather than the hammering you get from a steel or solid pad. JMO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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