Shooterman 0 Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Took my Saiga .223 out for it's first shoot (fun!) but was surprised when I could not eject a round that had already chambered. It was a bit annoying, but cease fire had been called, and I could not make the gun safe so other shooters could go downrange. The range master came over to help, but try as we might, we could not get the round out. I've not owned a semi-auto gun that wouldn't clear the chamber by cycling the action. Is this normal for the AK, or am I just making a rookie mistake? TIA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
biskitz 24 Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Just for troubleshooting, what kind of ammunition were you shooting? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acercanto 6 Posted June 27, 2008 Report Share Posted June 27, 2008 Just to clarify, was the charging handle stuck, or was the extractor not grabbing the round? Did the rounds extract fine when fired? Any abnormal marks on the top round in the mag or on spent shells? The answers to those questions will help others figure out what was wrong (if anything). Acer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shooterman 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 (edited) Just to clarify, was the charging handle stuck, or was the extractor not grabbing the round? Did the rounds extract fine when fired? Any abnormal marks on the top round in the mag or on spent shells?The answers to those questions will help others figure out what was wrong (if anything). Acer Ammo was handloaded 55gr. FMJ with an OAL of 2.250" in LC brass; the charging handle worked fine, all fired rounds ejected. Spend cases had the Saiga dent on them, and some light gouge marks on the rim. Now that you mention it, I'm guessing the extractor was not grabbing the round; othewise, it would extract it, right? Any reason it would not, if operated manually? Think I'll make up a couple of dummy rounds and see what I can see. Edited June 28, 2008 by Shooterman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Sounds to me like the casings you were using, were not fitting the chamber properly... Even when you full length resize, it doesnt mean its going to fit YOUR chamber perfectly... Thats why many reloaders fireform brass first then reload it after, to make sure it will fit THAT gun properly... or at least not use it for "good" loads till after it has been fireformed in that particular chamber once... Also, it is a possibility that the cartridges were loaded just slightly TOO LONG... and the bullet was touching the rifling... ( not a good thing, by the way...) That would cause extra gription on the cartridge also... Or perhaps a combination of both... or maybe the brass was bad... and you didnt notice when you reloaded and inserted it and the force to seat it from the bolt carrier spring was enough, but it was then jammed up and the extractor couldnt get ahold of it... Was the rim damaged that the extractor COULDNT get a purchase on the rim?? When you finally removed it was it EASY or extremely difficult to get out? did you use a cleaning rod to push it out from the front??? Any marks on the brass?? Inquiring minds want to know! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shooterman 0 Posted June 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Sounds to me like the casings you were using, were not fitting the chamber properly... Even when you full length resize, it doesnt mean its going to fit YOUR chamber perfectly... Thats why many reloaders fireform brass first then reload it after, to make sure it will fit THAT gun properly... or at least not use it for "good" loads till after it has been fireformed in that particular chamber once... Also, it is a possibility that the cartridges were loaded just slightly TOO LONG... and the bullet was touching the rifling... ( not a good thing, by the way...) That would cause extra gription on the cartridge also... Or perhaps a combination of both... or maybe the brass was bad... and you didnt notice when you reloaded and inserted it and the force to seat it from the bolt carrier spring was enough, but it was then jammed up and the extractor couldnt get ahold of it... Was the rim damaged that the extractor COULDNT get a purchase on the rim?? When you finally removed it was it EASY or extremely difficult to get out? did you use a cleaning rod to push it out from the front??? Any marks on the brass?? Inquiring minds want to know! I have a feeling your second thought is the one to run down. The brass was once-fired, FL sized and trimmed LC '06, so I don't think the brass itself is the culprit. Again, all fired rounds extracted find, which could indicate that the OAL is the factor that kept the unfired round from ejecting; some minor gouging on the rim and case mouths dinged in ejection. Tonight I will experiment with some shorter dummies and post any useful results here. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 MOST rims will be dented in from the Saiga .223 ejection style...the extractor pulls them out so hard at an angle, they get a dent from the inside of the receiver as they slide out before being flung into the top cover... Then as they bang off the dust cover they USUALLY get nice dents in the SIDE of the casing, too!! The dent in the case mouth is NOT a valid problem to consider BEFORE firing... just AFTER firing and the rough extraction typical of the S223... Just double check your OAL length, make sure it is in spec... compare them to some factory ammo if you have any... Dont stress too much... that one could have just been an oddball... Unless you tried MANY others and they all jammed up too when trying to cycle by hand... ( Just make sure if you are trying to cycle LIVE AMMO you do it outside, pointed downrange, in a VERY SAFE direction... ) Keep us posted, bro! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shooterman 0 Posted June 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 MOST rims will be dented in from the Saiga .223 ejection style...the extractor pulls them out so hard at an angle, they get a dent from the inside of the receiver as they slide out before being flung into the top cover... Then as they bang off the dust cover they USUALLY get nice dents in the SIDE of the casing, too!! The dent in the case mouth is NOT a valid problem to consider BEFORE firing... just AFTER firing and the rough extraction typical of the S223... Just double check your OAL length, make sure it is in spec... compare them to some factory ammo if you have any... Dont stress too much... that one could have just been an oddball... Unless you tried MANY others and they all jammed up too when trying to cycle by hand... ( Just make sure if you are trying to cycle LIVE AMMO you do it outside, pointed downrange, in a VERY SAFE direction... ) Keep us posted, bro! Well, it turned out to be the OAL. I had them initially set at 2.250", and once I made up the dummy to 2.210", it popped right out. Live and learn. Now I am beginning to wonder if the condition of the primers of those first 50 rounds (cratered and nearly pancaked) was a result of a too-long OAL. I am off to the range to try out the shorter load. Will report back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 Well, most reloaders will assert that a cratered primer is a sign of overpressure... a cartridge that is slid into the rifling can create pressure spikes, as it is being propelled out already under the friction of the rifling, and not just in the mouth of the chamber... Hopefully you have the problem licked, and wont have any other issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shooterman 0 Posted June 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 (edited) Well, most reloaders will assert that a cratered primer is a sign of overpressure... a cartridge that is slid into the rifling can create pressure spikes, as it is being propelled out already under the friction of the rifling, and not just in the mouth of the chamber... Hopefully you have the problem licked, and wont have any other issues. No problems today, and the rifle shot fine. Someone at the range said the apparent cratering might just be from a new firing pin. I'll bring the load down a few tenths and see how they look Now I just have to rig up that door trim on the receiver cover to keep the brass from getting dinged up. Then, onto optics. I hear there is a good peep sight available to replace the rear sight, but I'm pretty sure a side mount and red dot are in the future. Edited June 30, 2008 by Shooterman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
acercanto 6 Posted June 30, 2008 Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Good to hear, man! Safe shooting, Acer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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