something unsettling on COPS TV show

[vujade 0]

I was channel surfing this afternoon and caught the last part of an episode of an old COPS (or a show like that) rerun (i'm assuming it's older because of the older style cars). This was in Colorado. I only caught the last bit that kinda made me upset. I'll give the details of what I saw and if someone has more info - please chime in. I hope I just missed some important part.

 

I start watching when they have this guy on the floor; they are handcuffing him. Witnesses/neighbors called the cops that there was an armed man. As they are handcuffing him, he starts to explain his story.

 

He was drinking in his front porch. A gang or group of guys crash the party and want to join in. They say no; it's not really a party. One of the gang members starts pissing on the lawn. One of the residents asks them to stop since women are present. Gang member asks another fellow member to "grab the gun". Resident goes in the house and grabs his gun (looks like a saturday night special). He shoots it in the air. (yep, that was stupid) It jams. The gang members run only to be replaced by the cops.

 

The cops explain they need to be careful with anyone with a gun. Resident explains over and over again that he was just protecting his family and it was in his front porch, this area is gang infested, etc. The cops didn't seem to threat him very well.

 

Guy is arrested of course. Right before the credits roll...the officer comments (paraphrased), "There was already 1 gun out there, he didn't have to go in and get his too. He should have just ran in the house and call us..."

 

 

I dunno... except for shooting in the air, I think the resident did ok. Am I wrong? What did I miss? Any other thoughts? I thought we learned from (forgot the name of that court case) that the police aren't responsible for our own safety. That we have to take care of ourselves. Plus, i don't like the idea of hiding in the house waiting for gosh how long until the cops come while possible gang members are "exploring" and releaving themselves on my property.

[nalioth 405]

It's all edited for maximum drama.

 

It is 'television entertainment'.

 

[Further comments withheld]

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Wasn't all that long ago that one of our members went through the same bullshit in his own yard in the islands.

I wonder how he's doing now.

 

I don't care how much they dramatize the story, there is something VERY wrong IMO with a guy getting arrested and charged, while doing his best to protect his own family and property from a bunch of worthless scum street urchins..

[Bvamp 604]

The individual was in error. If they thought that a warnign shot in the air was cause and sufficient enough to drive off intruders (as they seem to want to display these nice gang members as), then they were not in an immediate and immenant threat of life limd or bodily harm, or property loss.

 

 

the warning shot is jail time, in my opinion.

 

 

 

It must not have been justifiable, if they only needed a warning shot.

 

 

 

There are a rash of burgularies in my immediate area going on as of late, and I will NOT fire a warning shot, as this demonstrates that you did not have to discharge your firearm in public, or in close proximity to another human being.

 

 

If you shoot, you shoot them dead. there is no warning shot, so far as I know.......hell of a price to force me to pay at 4am on Saturday, for a 200 dollar tool, or 1200 dollar parrot..........

 

my faith is in GOD, not man. I understand why they incorporated the "castle doctrine" down here.

[hawk78 0]

Discharging the gun was stupid, if you make the decision to shoot it should be to kill. Otherwise you risk a jam just like what happened. Didn't sound like a situation that needed shooting though, just the presence of his gun probably.

 

You are right, legally the police are not responsible for protecting you, their responsibility is to the general public. You are responsible for your own personal safety. One of those cases was that girl that was gang-raped for 14 hours, called 911 multiple times, police never came. Court ruled police had no direct responsibility to individuals, only to the public in general. Disgusting.

 

I agree with Nalioth it's made to be dramatic, it has to be to keep your attention. However what the cop said is the attitude of a great many cops now. Legality is put aside as they enforce their own personal beliefs about guns.

[sicktooth 8]

i dislike cops...

[22_Shooter 1,560]

The only thing I wouldn't have done the same, is pop off a round into the air. He was right to go in and get his gun, after hearing gangbanger 1 tell gangbanger 2 to "go get the gun". Any shots fired after that should only have been in defense of his/his family's life. Just my 2 cents.

 

"There was already 1 gun out there, he didn't have to go in and get his too. He should have just ran in the house and call us..."

 

That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. I have well known quote to reply to that with: "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

[THE_HUNTER 2]

First warning shot is threw the thug with the gun.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

One warning shot=one dead gang banger.

Two warning shots=two dead gang bangers.....

 

and so on......

[Bayoupiper 738]

Why is it that some police officers seem to lose their minds when a tv camera gets pointed at them............................

[nicklebon 27]

Why is it that some police officers seem to lose their minds when a tv camera gets pointed at them............................

 

Because most never had a mind to lose to begin with? Which is true of most people btw, not picking on cops in particular. Though, in general, they do tend to rank closer to the bottom of the stack. As always, there are exceptions.

Edited July 23, 2008 by nicklebon

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Dude...... We are lucky to have as many good cops as we do.....

I'm not gonna let a handful of morons taint my opinion of the boys in blue.....

 

I gave up my ACAB attitude at about 25 years old......

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I didn't make myself clear I guess.

If it was me I would definitely have fired a "warning" shot. It might not have been through the gangbanger assholes but it would have been in their VERY close proximity, and into a safe backdrop or the ground if possible, not just up in the air (unless it was birdshot). Now if they had a gun on me it would be aimed at center mass...period.

[ClickClickD'oh 1]

...he starts to explain his story.

 

Here's my honest still thinking like a cop answer..

 

Why are you believing his story? Think about this for a second, how often do gangs just show up at your house and want to drink with you? Guy was on his porch, drinking, with women present? Gang member himself? Possibility. Drunk in public? Certainty. Discharged a firearm in an unsafe manner? Most certainly. Pretty good chance that once the police leave he's going to drink some more liquid courage, reload his gun and prove to the ladies that he's a man? ...Or the other gang members are going to come back with more guns? Those two happen often enough.

 

Toss him in the lock up for the night to sober up and cool off.

 

The officer was right. If the guy didnn't want trouble he should have taken his crew inside and waited there with the gun while calling 911. If the other gang wanted in, then it's open season.

Edited July 23, 2008 by ClickClickD'oh

[Twinsen 86]

He fired a shot into the air like an African on CNN. He might have smelled like alcohol or they didn't trust him or whatever on top of that.

 

I saw a much better episode, it was right in line with high stress situations that I've encountered. Long story short, lots and lots of cops are slowly chasing a man with a knife on foot down a divided highway. He is walking backwards swinging it around, they're all telling him to stop and drop it, with their hands on their weapons. He swings at a cop, they all pull their guns, and the same crap continues. A statie blocks him against the center divider with his car suddenly, he makes a mad dash at a cop, and stabs him. This part is what's great. Since there is a ton of yelling, you didn't hear what just happened.

 

One cop looks at the other that was dead center for the attack and says, "Did you just shoot him?"

 

"I don't think so... no I couldn't have."

 

"I think you did."

 

And he pulls up the guys shirt and there's a bullet hole, giving up blood. It was great because only one guy even noticed a gun going off, they were that on edge.

[Azrial 1,090]

Why is it that some police officers seem to lose their minds when a tv camera gets pointed at them............................

1. And this makes the police different from the general population how?

 

2. Any piece of film can be edited to make you look bad.

 

3. What goes up, must come down.

[Gunfixr 76]

This just confirms that I don't need to fire warning shots.

 

If I bring out the gun, and point it in your general direction, and it's loaded, then you're very close to being shot with it as it is.

 

If I fire that gun, then I intend to hit something, and not just air or the ground.

[Kwicko 8]

Depending on where you are, you don't even have to fire a warning shot to be go to jail - just "brandishing" a firearm is an offense in many municipalities. In other words, SHOWING that you have a gun is enough to get arrested.

 

And just about everywhere, firing inside city limits will get you noticed.

 

I've had similar issues with "gangstas" (or "baby-gangstas" as I call them - it really cheeses them off when you won't give them the respect they haven't earned) - I haven't had to brandish or fire shots, but I DID just happen to pull my Saiga out of its case inside my own house one night, just to "test fit" a 30-round magazine. I forgot that I left the front door open, and that there was some kind of "block party" going on outside. Next thing I hear is some dude yelling - and I quote - " Oh, SHIT - that dude got a MACHINE GUN!!" After which the party broke up and everyone was gone in about 10 seconds.

 

By the way, that "machine gun" is a run-of-the-mill Saiga 7.62x39mm with a couple very minor changes to keep it 922r compliant with the 30-round mags. Seems these baby-Gs don't really know their weapons...

 

Mike

[Bayoupiper 738]

Seems these baby-Gs don't really know their weapons...

 

Mike

 

 

 

And we need to see that it stays that way!

[mstranglr 9]

Yep, that warning shot is a mistake. In California, that is illegaly brandishing and discharging a firearm in public - you may loose your right to have firearms after that! Should have went inside, called 911 and explain that you are armed and a threat is present, and protect family from inside the house.

 

Cops have the unfortunate job of enforcing the oppressive laws enacted by people we (the populace) vote for, and will lose their jobs if they do not. They must also treat every gun weilding individual as a threat, just as you would. Their jobs suck, not just dealing with the requirements of the job, but the politics and corruption of their respective agencies. In this respect, we should try to be a bit more understanding.

 

But, having said the above statement, there is a growing problem amongst law enforcement - The "us and them" attitude. Law enforcement has come to the point where there is no attempt to distinguish the good guy from the bad, so your average law abiding home owner get treated the same as the gang-banger. When I was attending school at UCLA, I had an apartment with 2 other guys in a very bad area of L.A. (it was all I could afford). We called the cops several times when gunfire errupted in or near the apartment complex. When they arrived, the always asked for our ID and ran our records first. My room mate called the cops once to report a knife fight in the apartment parking lot - they showed up an hour later and handcuffed him while they asked him questions! No wonder no one in LA calls or cooperates with the police.

 

Another reality I noticed while I was Hunting in Idaho and Montana for the last 2 weeks: WE ARE OVER-POLICED in many states. I drove through northern Nevada, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and northern Utah and went 10 days without seeing a cop! Thats right, these people take care of themselves. No revenue driven speed-traps, no assholes aguing whether or not you came to a complete stop at the stop sign, no being pulled over for a fictitiuos license plate light being out because you made eye contact with the officer. The streets of these cities were safe and clean because the citizens keep it that way. Drive through the baren California desert and marvel at seeing a CHP oficer every 10 miles. Drive through tiny remote California cities like Maricopa and be amazed by police departments that have an officer for every 20 people. Be puzzled by the fact that you off-roaded 60 miles from the pavement into the wilderness, only to have a sherriff approach you on a quad to check your tags?

[152dbs 0]

Law enforcement has come to the point where there is no attempt to distinguish the good guy from the bad, so your average law abiding home owner get treated the same as the gang-banger. When I was attending school at UCLA, I had an apartment with 2 other guys in a very bad area of L.A. (it was all I could afford). We called the cops several times when gunfire errupted in or near the apartment complex. When they arrived, the always asked for our ID and ran our records first. My room mate called the cops once to report a knife fight in the apartment parking lot - they showed up an hour later and handcuffed him while they asked him questions! No wonder no one in LA calls or cooperates with the police.

 

 

its not really our job to judge who is innocent or guilty. some agencies prefer their officers to cuff people while they ask them questions if the officer thinks the person could be a threat. being cuffed doesnt mean you're arrested, only "detained for questioning". trust me, we won't hit you as we ask questions, and we dont want to be hit as well. law enforcement officers dont get the respect or appreciation that we deserve. most of us are highly educated but because laws are written a certain way, and we do our jobs according to them people assume we are stupid.

 

 

 

i dislike cops...

 

the show or the people doing their jobs. because i hear this all the time from the public..."i hate cops". i heard that in vegas saturday night from a black lady that appeared to be in her mid 50s. we were stopped at a crosswalk, i turned around and told her "well then dont call us when you're watching your daughter getting raped while you have a gun to your head".

 

 

 

 

 

people annoy me with their ignorance.

[nsa400 11]

hey 152dbs are you metro,north,or henderson. The reason i ask is im going to test in october for north. Im not shure if im not shure if i want to do corrections, and transfer later to leo. Advice from LEO on this forum would be alot of help.

Thanks!

[Juggernaut 11,054]

[6500rpm 670]

Let see, cops respond to shots fired complaint. Man with gun and no gang members starts telling a story that could be bogus...lots of domestic crap in area's like that. If I were in there shoes, priority one is control the situation and control the guy with the gun. After that it's protocol, not personal decission.

 

Lets say the guy was lying, you as the cop let him go, and later that night he ice's his wife or someone he has a beef with in the hood and it happened because his innitial story was bogus, maybe the wife covered for him. When you pull your firearm, you have to think, discharge it and you better have thought hard.

 

Best move if it were a true story would have been to retreat to a defensive position in the house-ARMED, and called the cops. If the bangers come in, it's TWO in the HEAD, ONE in the CHEST. Now this jackass is in jail, nobody is there to protect his family (but the cops), and the wouldbe thugs know where you live. GREAT MOVE.

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that you have to put things in perspective. I had one friend cut anothers throat at a bar when I was younger...a third friend had a shotgun on him holding him when the cops showed. It could have been bad, but the cops didn't over react. That's the kind of shit they deal with....not many of you can say the same. It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback as you sit in your chair eating chips and drinking a cold one. Maybe one more game of HALO is in order to get you up to par ( ;

[152dbs 0]

hey 152dbs are you metro,north,or henderson. The reason i ask is im going to test in october for north. Im not shure if im not shure if i want to do corrections, and transfer later to leo. Advice from LEO on this forum would be alot of help.

Thanks!

 

im in tally, fla. "Home of the CrimiNoles". im in corrections. but im actually a booking officer. i cant be a road deputy because i dont live in the county im employed with. which to me is pretty dumb. but i got a better chance for advancement. if you want corrections, go that way...if you want to be a road/street officer, go that route. its hard as hell to go from the jail to the road, at least where im at.

 

 

 

 

 

 

good luck man, if you have any questions feel free to pm me, ill answer them as best as i can and wont be an ass.

 

just remember people will hate you because u cant mold the law to help them.

ive taken my star off a few times when people have told me that i hide behind it. that shuts them up fast.

i had one black crackhead come in and call me a "G-d damn cop" i told him, "sir you're wrong, im a mother f*ckin redneck" he shut up after that, always think fast. faster than them. my sgts know im educated and have a sharp tongue, so i dont get any counselling sessions. there is a book titled "verbal judo" or something similiar, get it. well worth it. itll teach you to get people to say what you want them to say.

[nsa400 11]

cool thanks for the advise, verbal judo sounds like a fun read. Im working my ass off trying to get into shape, and preping for the test. Yeh I know all about cop haters I get the story's from my soon to be sister inlaw. To me I hope it will just be another job, and nothing personal!

[knutz 0]

Cops have the unfortunate job of enforcing the oppressive laws enacted by people we (the populace) vote for, and will lose their jobs if they do not. ...

So you are saying that cops must perform certain duties even if they think they are wrong or immoral, just to keep their jobs?

 

And what is the "we " stuff? "we " have enough laws already. I've never voted for anyone who has ran on a platform that included anything other than downsizing government and doing away with often useless or overreaching laws and regulations.

 

BTW...

 

to stay on topic.

 

If I am scared enough or mad enough to pull a gun IT WILL BE FIRED. There will be no, just to show to diffuse a situation. If it comes out it goes boom. Which is probably why I don't carry. Never saw a need to show my ace in the hole till I needed it.

[Bayoupiper 738]

Not perform certain duties even if we think they are wrong.

That's not the way to look at it.

 

There is a saying in leo circles, the quickest way to get a bad law changed is to enforce it!

[mstranglr 9]

152dbs,

 

Please do not confuse my post with cop hating rhetoric. My family has a long law enforcement history and I spent three years in a small California department before I went back to school and completed my business degree. I am fully aware of what LE must deal with and will not discredit their place in a civil society. It was never my department's policy to restrain everyone we questioned, we were allowed to use our judgment.

 

I was just being intellectually honest and exploring both sides of the issue:

 

Being in corrections, you know that various "cultures" of lawlessness exist. LE has little impact on these cultures as they will continue to conform to cultural norms within their communities and within the prison system regardless of how many officers we put on the street or how many prisons we build. A cop or CO can not change these cultures, only the cultures can change themselves. Luckily these cultures tend to avoid communities that will not tolerate their behavior. Being that there is no organization plagued by political correctness more than big-city police departments, officers are taught to treat people of the "culture of lawlessness" the same as the rest of us - even though the difference between the two is easily identifiable. Not only does this create animosity and distrust between good folks and LE, but also causes LE to distance itself from the rest of the population ("us and them").

 

I have witnessed cops saving lives and doing good firsthand - and hunt, fish, and train with many of them today. I have also been there when LE fuck with Innocent people, sat around having beers laughing their asses off about someones life they tried to ruin. If you have not seen this, you have not been around LE long.

 

Knutz, yes, cops must perform duties they do not agree with in order to keep their jobs. This is what drove me to go back and complete my business degree. And yes, the populous (we as a group) does vote for political leaders that enact oppressive laws.

[152dbs 0]

desert dog,

 

i didnt take what u said in a negative manner. i was just clearing it up for some of those that have no clue about policy. ive seen both sides, the good and the bad as well. i hear it best from 1 officer. she said "i didnt fuck up her life, she did" the arrestee was a 22 yo dwk (drunk white kid).

 

i saw u went hunting today...whats in season? i was thinking about finishing my college career, but realized that i had bills. and because i work where its direct supervision, we get hazard pay. so i have to work 5 less years. if im in admin, ill do the drop and still retire before im 50. then after that ill sit on the tailgate of my jacked up truck in front of Wally-world and tell everybody to take a buggy once they step inside.

 

every niche of society has the Us versus them mentality. be it color,class, or anything else that makes "them" different. if someone denies it,they are full of shit.

 

 

the innocent people we usually fuck with are kids or other young people that we make an attempt to "scare straight".