learn2flyfish 0 Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 I've seen some parts out there that advertise no need to alter the receiver. Is this sub quality? I'm not much for welding and drilling. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtnichols 51 Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 You could get by your self without welding, many do, You will have to drill with cobalt drill bits though, and use a couple of prime swear words too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thor's Hammer 33 Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 (edited) There are only 2 pistol grip conversions (more like an addition) that I am aware of that are zero grinding, drilling, welding, completely reversible, which is my standard for "no altering of the receiver." The optional factory skeleton stock. I have never seen one in person, but I suspect that it is of the same quality as the factory furniture. Inexpensive. Ace's Saiga no mod pistol grip conversion. Expensive, solid, well made / aesthetically challenged, awkward; shifts the center of balance to the rear. Bear in mind that either one of those will immediately put you out of compliance when using factory mags unless additional US parts are swapped out. Actually, I think the skeleton stock may put you out of compliance with no mag installed?.. Edited August 16, 2008 by Thor's Hammer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 I've seen some parts out there that advertise no need to alter the receiver. Is this sub quality? I'm not much for welding and drilling. Paul What parts are you talking about exactly? Doing a regular, basic conversion requires drilling, at the least (some say they have just smacked the trigger plate off without drilling, but that didn't work for me. It just got all mangled, and I ended up drilling the rivets a little bit, and popped them out). Welding is optional. A lot of people just use the nylon plugs to fill the holes. Actually, I think the skeleton stock may put you out of compliance with no mag installed?.. The factory skeleton stock, on it's own, doesn't require you to be compliant. Some come imported that way, so 922r doesn't apply. It's just a factory part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thor's Hammer 33 Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 I've seen some parts out there that advertise no need to alter the receiver. Is this sub quality? I'm not much for welding and drilling. Paul What parts are you talking about exactly? Doing a regular, basic conversion requires drilling, at the least (some say they have just smacked the trigger plate off without drilling, but that didn't work for me. It just got all mangled, and I ended up drilling the rivets a little bit, and popped them out). Welding is optional. A lot of people just use the nylon plugs to fill the holes. Actually, I think the skeleton stock may put you out of compliance with no mag installed?.. The factory skeleton stock, on it's own, doesn't require you to be compliant. Some come imported that way, so 922r doesn't apply. It's just a factory part. So adding a pistol grip feature that is part of a skeleton stock like that does not constitute adding a second non-sporting military type feature? ie, a pistol grip? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 So adding a pistol grip feature that is part of a skeleton stock like that does not constitute adding a second non-sporting military type feature? ie, a pistol grip?Until you stick an 11+ round mag in it, you're fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cellsworth 21 Posted August 18, 2008 Report Share Posted August 18, 2008 I've seen some parts out there that advertise no need to alter the receiver. Is this sub quality? I'm not much for welding and drilling. Paul There is a modified Tapco T6 Saigastock.com and an ACE no-mod stock kit Mississippiautoarms.com. Both work OK. I have an ACE set on one of my Saigas. Keep in mind that you must use all U.S. made mags unless you swap out 3 other factory parts for U.S. parts if you go this route. I really recommend doing the conversion, though. I resisted it for quite some time, but when I finally took the plunge and did a conversion, I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner. It really is easy, and the results are much better than just attaching a modified stock (better appearance, better balance, better FCG). Check out Dinzagarms.com for great conversion products and links. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kbahus 0 Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 Looking at Mississippi Auto Arm's website of the picture of the Ace setup it looks not in proportion/strange. Does anyone have a decent picture of one of the Ace no-mod folding setups? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 Looking at Mississippi Auto Arm's website of the picture of the Ace setup it looks not in proportion/strange. It just is strange looking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cellsworth 21 Posted August 25, 2008 Report Share Posted August 25, 2008 I agree with 22 Shooter. I have one like that, and it does indeed look awkward. My converted 7.62X39 looks much better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WardenWolf 6 Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 The BATF's current stance on the Saiga skeleton stock is that, since the pistol grip is entirely a feature of the stock rather than being separately attached to the receiver, it is not considered in violation of 925 or 922. Basically it's not considered a pistol grip from the BATF's point of view. I've seen pics of guns with these stocks. They're UGLY, but reportedly very comfortable. What worries me is that, being shorter than the normal stock, it will alter the gun's center of mass and result in muzzle jump when the gun is fired. The default Saiga stocks make them extremely stable. There is nearly no muzzle movement when the gun is fired. The long stock serves to mitigate the muzzle jump greatly. A shorter stock would logically allow greater leverage from the gun's recoil, increasing muzzle jump and making it a less stable shooting platform. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 28, 2008 Report Share Posted August 28, 2008 Looking at Mississippi Auto Arm's website of the picture of the Ace setup it looks not in proportion/strange. Does anyone have a decent picture of one of the Ace no-mod folding setups? http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry257678 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
talkcombloc 0 Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 If you want to convert, you'll need to go in it 100%. It will require some manly actions like cutting and grinding. It's really not too bad. If you're the type to have someone else mow your lawn you might want to stay away. Otherwise we're here to walk you through the process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
terrace_mountain 0 Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 The optional factory skeleton stock. I have never seen one in person, but I suspect that it is of the same quality as the factory furniture. Inexpensive. Wrong. My first Saiga is a used 7.62 that has the skeleton stock. This thing is SOLID. It's not the crappy, hollow plastic piece of junk that the stock monte carlo stock is made out of. It's incredibly sturdy and gives a great feel for the extra long trigger pull of the factory FCG. Here is a variation of it installed on the current issue SVD (also manufactured by IZHMASH, the only diffence being some cuts where it's mounted): If this stock is good enough for the Russian military, I'm sure it will hold up fine to range romping and zombie defense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TX-Zen 287 Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 The optional factory skeleton stock. I have never seen one in person, but I suspect that it is of the same quality as the factory furniture. Inexpensive. Wrong. My first Saiga is a used 7.62 that has the skeleton stock. This thing is SOLID. It's not the crappy, hollow plastic piece of junk that the stock monte carlo stock is made out of. It's incredibly sturdy and gives a great feel for the extra long trigger pull of the factory FCG. Here is a variation of it installed on the current issue SVD (also manufactured by IZHMASH, the only diffence being some cuts where it's mounted): If this stock is good enough for the Russian military, I'm sure it will hold up fine to range romping and zombie defense. Actually I believe the SVD is the originator of the polymer stock and a variation was made for the Saiga I do agree they are tough and durable, I have one for the NDM86 and one for the S12 (which I will probably never use, I just converted it). Like you said they are solid and not crappy at all. Z Quote Link to post Share on other sites
terrace_mountain 0 Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Actually I believe the SVD is the originator of the polymer stock and a variation was made for the Saiga semantics, semantics....you know what I meant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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