Saiga 12C Malfunctions

[Lawman 0]

We have in inventory a pair of Saiga 12C shotguns that were ordered from Kalashnikov in 1999. They were ordered with a 14" barell to use for breaching. Unfortunately, Kalashnikov figured that we needed standoffs for that use and made the guns 14" including a 3 1/2 inch standoff. They have about an inch of real barell sticking out from under the handguard. The SWAT boys tried to make these things work when they first got them without any kind of success. After a little bit of work, mostly polishing everything, they seem to be close to 100%. I just took them to the range yesterday and testfired for a couple hundred rounds. There does not seem to be a lot of gas pressure in the gun. Using the #2 gas setting the bolt will not open more than halfway with light birdshot. With heavy birdshot the gun will only cycle about 3/4 of the way but will sometimes stovepipe the hull. Reduced recoil slugs have the same results. With the ammo that they carry on duty, Winchester Buck and Slugs, full power, the gun was almost flawless. I ran about 200 rounds of the full power stuff yesterday. (That really hurt, the buttstock on the 12c is much worse than the civilian version that I have). There were three malfunctions. All three were stovepipes on the last round from the magazine. Any ideas? The gun is clean and free of cosmoline. My feeling is that I need to open up the gas port just a touch. But if anyone has had stovepipe malfunctions on the last round I'd like to know before I do anything that can't be changed back.

 

Thanks,

Chuck

[Gaddis 1,689]

Hmm, sounds like the shot charge in the lighter loads is not staying in the barrel long enough to build up sufficient pressure to operate the gas piston. The only thing I can think that might help is to see if Izsmash (or a skilled gunsmith) could add some type of slight "constriction" (like a light choke, but not enough to hinder slug firing) to the muzzle of the weapons in order to slow down the shot payload thus keeping it in the barrel a slight bit longer?

[bigpond73 0]

Sounds like gas short stroking to me. I think it was Gunfighter who had the same problem when he built his custom breeching shotgun. Not sure what he did, but I think the best solution would be to drill out the gas port where it intersects the barrel a little more. Since the barrel is short, and the gas port is near the end of the barrel, it seems like it is not building up enough pressure to push the gas rod back enough, thus short cycling, stove-piping, etc. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Maybe Gunfighter will chime in too.

 

I think the same thing happens with people converting AK74's to AK47's. The gas port is too small for the larger bullet (more pressure from larger cartridge), and people end up opening up the gas port hole a little more. Again, someone correct me if I am wrong. Hope that helps, and good luck.

 

Mike

 

P.S. Check out the AK-47.net Build it yourself forums. Might be some helpful info there. After rereading your post, I think your last 3 FTE's, all the last round in a mag is a mag problem. You didn't mention whether you were using 5 or 8 round mags. Personally, I have had a few problems with the 5 rounders, typically on the last round. Again, personally, I have experienced terrible trouble with any type of plastic magazine. I don't think plastic surfaces slide well against each other, too much friction. Anyone out there have any ideas to produce a steel US made, aftermarket mag for the Saiga-12? It would be a great idea, and I think a lot of magazine related problems with the Saiga-12 would go away. Just my .02.

Edited October 4, 2003 by bigpond73

[Lawman 0]

The three malfunctions occurred with 5 round magazines. Each was with a different magazine and did not repeat. Thanks for the info on the gas system.

 

Chuck