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Saiga 12c availability


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#1 gunnergrif

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 07:10 PM

I've been dragging ass on buying one, buddy just bought one and has me thinking that I should probably get one before long. Whats the availability on a 12C now and price? :dollar: :dollar: :dollar:

#2 smithy5160

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 07:54 PM

yea what is a good price?

there is a .410 and 12 gauge thats it right?

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#3 Panzerschreck

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 02:18 PM

Don't know what current pricing is, but there is also a 20C. Have only seen two, both were made into short barrel shotguns and I own one. Have seen pictures of the 410 C and K versions, but have never seen one in person and don't know if any were imported.

#4 'clees

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 09:19 PM

Here you go, Griff. Just picked it up today.

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#5 'clees

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Posted 15 January 2005 - 09:22 PM

1999 LE 12C

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#6 gunnergrif

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 03:49 PM

Ha Ha....eat it 'clees.

#7 freefalle7

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 04:55 PM

Yea I have a 12C and had a 20C. The 20C went to my FO's brother.

There still around, but you wont be getting them for $450 anymore.

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#8 freefalle7

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 05:01 PM

more

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#9 gunnergrif

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Posted 16 January 2005 - 11:26 PM

Very nice, shoulda bought em' when I had the chance I guess....

#10 fuzzyraptor

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 03:50 AM

does anyone know a site that you can buy these from?

#11 freefalle7

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 06:59 AM

does anyone know a site that you can buy these from?

Sorry you will just have to check around gunshows, gunsites to find one.

As far as I know the LEO 12C have not been imported since 99-00.

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#12 kmoore

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 12:48 PM

When I bought mine, dealer said that limited supplies had come in. He was shocked at the response when he put his up for sale, heh. In fact, Panzer was the one who pointed me to his ad, way back when. Did I ever say thanks enough?

He sold out of the ones he had on hand. Price kept going up too.

My guess is that there may be a few at dealers, but mostly in private individuals hands. Guy I got mine from said there were a handfull in a shop that had been converting them to SBS for LEO as they were requested. That is where quite a few went.

Edited by kmoore, 27 January 2005 - 12:49 PM.


#13 'clees

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Posted 02 February 2005 - 05:38 PM

The guy who was making the SBS's out of them is Ozark Armory. I bought his last one.

#14 Elliot308

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 12:10 AM

I know this is old....so what are they going for now? Market value that is....

#15 tritium

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 12:15 AM

I know this is old....so what are they going for now? Market value that is....

When one pops up it seems to go for $1200-$1500.
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#16 semiautoken

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 04:49 AM

I know this is old....so what are they going for now? Market value that is....

When one pops up it seems to go for $1200-$1500.



Besides the collectable aspect is there any benefit to having a original 12c or a converted one by tromix or any other quality outfit. Any differences at all.

Thanks for the info

Ken

#17 tritium

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 01:34 PM

I know this is old....so what are they going for now? Market value that is....

When one pops up it seems to go for $1200-$1500.



Besides the collectable aspect is there any benefit to having a original 12c or a converted one by tromix or any other quality outfit. Any differences at all.

Thanks for the info

Ken

Only if you're a really big fan of the folding full stock.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud (or not)
The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
-Anonymous
Complexity is easy; simplicity is difficult.
-Georgy Shpagin, mentor to M. Kalashnikov
Peace is that brief, glorious, quiet moment in history when everybody is standing around reloading.
-Anonymous

"Yes, Officer, I was trying to burn my house down.... Why do you ask ?"

#18 RDSWriter

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 03:04 PM

Besides the collectable aspect is there any benefit to having a original 12c or a converted one by tromix or any other quality outfit. Any differences at all.

Thanks for the info

Ken


The primary difference is that an original 12C doesn't require conversion, nor does it require US parts to be 922r compliant. During the AWB, an officer could own a 12C as long as his department let him purchase one for official use. Upon his retirement, he could keep the 12C. As such, when the ATF made the announcement that restricted guns marked LEO during the ban could be owned and sold to civilians... the 12C falls under this exemption because the the ATF did not distinguish between domestic and imported LEO firearms. Their subsequent communications via response letters from the Technology Branch confirm that Saiga 12Cs imported during the AWB and marked Law Enforcement Only are compliant with 922r without US parts.

So in short, the Saiga 12Cs and 20Cs represent the ONLY Russian AK firearms that were imported in their original 'military' configuration.

#19 SaigaNW

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:08 PM

 

I know this is old....so what are they going for now? Market value that is....

When one pops up it seems to go for $1200-$1500.

 



Besides the collectable aspect is there any benefit to having a original 12c or a converted one by tromix or any other quality outfit. Any differences at all.

Thanks for the info

Ken

 

I just read the 'sKott's Saiga 12-C Conversion' thread, and I think that is a good route to go! Has anyone else here attempted his build project?



#20 HighPlainsDrifter

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:35 PM

Man your research is taking you way back to 2007!  

 

Give us an update when you get back with the times...


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#21 SaigaNW

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

Man your research is taking you way back to 2007!  

 

Give us an update when you get back with the times...

Well that is what the search function is for! biggrin.png  ... and perhaps you could save me a few years... cool.png

 

I'd really like to get one of the original 12C's, but I've read they are almost impossible to find, and very spendy when they do surface!



#22 HighPlainsDrifter

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:26 PM

Oh I'm no expert on this.  The research I've done tells me there's limited options in this current market.  It won't be as easy as just click "buy" and taking a trip to your local FFL.   You are a day late and a dollar short for that!

 

In my mind your best options are as follows...

A.  Vepr-12

B.  Any build from Legion or an SGL-12 from Kvar:  sporter or tactical

C.  Any Iz-109 you can find

 

Option A:  It is said the Vepr-12 is the better of the two AK based autoloaders.  Swap out for a folder and it's probably the closest to what you want with the S-12c.  I'm using this link as a comparison that is...  http://www.dinzagarm...iga_12_var.html   It will be hard to get and you'll pay a premium for it.  Purchase this shotgun if you can find it and have the cash.

 

Option B:  Both are Saiga variants, both will work well.  You may find it hard to find a configuration like the S-12c.  The game is to find one that is closest to your needs and change out what you don't like.  This is what makes the saiga platform appealing in the first place.  You may like the 030 variants from legion.  Close to an S-12c but again no folder.  Be aware of the different gas set-ups and auto vs manual plugs..  Legion carries many variants that have the AK style hand guards.  You can buy a sporter and configure it into an S-12c.

 

Option C:  Essentially the same as Option B but the gas system will not be like the typical AK setup.  If you need the AK "hand guard look" this is not the option for you.  Well, there are way's around the issue but they will be excessively spendy.  The basic sporter Iz-109's haven't been imported in sometime.  I guess the hang up is on the supply side and nobody has been able to say when we'll start seeing them again.  Finding a sporter at your local gun shop is difficult or almost impossible task.  Most S-12's that are still available will be through custom shops as they've accumulated them in mass.

 

The Market:  Volatile!  The market will either get better or it will get worse.  If you want into an S-12 there's no time!  They may not pass an AWB but that doesn't mean they won't mess with import laws and until we start seeing imports the availability only dwindles.

 

We haven't even mentioned the availability of high-capacity magazines.  They are becoming available, like the guns they are in very limited supply.  Hard to say what will happen.

 

PM me in March and I may have a conversion available.  I'm coming into two S-12's in the near future and one will definitely have to go to fund the other.  I picked up a Legion sporter and plan on converting it into what I want.  Which is more like the 12c but with a magwell and AK hand guards.  Whatever you do, stay off of gunbroker!  Not sure how it has been recently but for a month after the shooting it was insane...


Edited by HighPlainsDrifter, 22 January 2013 - 10:06 PM.

"Alaskans are hard-living, fast-drinking, and cheap-loving."  - Mr. Whitekeys

 

 


#23 SaigaNW

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:04 AM

How are the magwell's? I've never used one, and I really don't like the use of plastic either...



#24 HighPlainsDrifter

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:27 AM

How are the magwell's? I've never used one, and I really don't like the use of plastic either...

 

Magwells are becoming more and more popular thanks to the addition of the Vepr-12 & the 030 series.  You'll have to shag the thought of running drums which is sacrilegious to some.  I've only heard good things from those that have one.  Pm GunFun.  He runs rock-n-locks but I read recently to where he got his hands on a model equipped with a magwell & LRBHO and he loved it.  Sunnybean has a whole family of magwell equipped shotties.  He might have something to say on this topic as well.

 

Don't like the use of plastic?  Hate to break it to you but if you want something similar to a S-12C you'll have to settle for about 1/3 of the gun being plastic.  I'm assuming you want OEM.  The molot magwell (vepr-12) is metal and cross compatible.  Though finding one is a whole different story.

 

So, where are you heading with all this?  Any closer to making a decision?

 

My concern for you SaigaNW is not your gun setup but rather your lack of magazines and the current market/politics.  Sure we may get you into one sweet ride in the end but how satisfied will you be driving on steel black rims?  The decision to run magwell mags or rock-n-locks should be your first concern.  Purchasing them should be your second.  Purchasing the gun should be your third.  I say this because a month ago I was in your same shoes and I ended up purchasing all my mags right at the peak time.  I still don't have a gun nor do I know what my final gun configuration will be.  You need high capacity magazines and your running out of time for that...

FYI, the AWB bill that passed in the 90's limited all auto loading shotguns to a maximum magazine capacity of 5 rounds! 

 

You'll have a good option for purchasing a shotgun as long as Legion has builds available.  Watch their availability religiously. 


Edited by HighPlainsDrifter, 24 January 2013 - 03:39 AM.

"Alaskans are hard-living, fast-drinking, and cheap-loving."  - Mr. Whitekeys

 

 


#25 SaigaNW

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:18 AM

How are the magwell's? I've never used one, and I really don't like the use of plastic either...

 

Magwells are becoming more and more popular thanks to the addition of the Vepr-12 & the 030 series.  You'll have to shag the thought of running drums which is sacrilegious to some.  I've only heard good things from those that have one.  Pm GunFun.  He runs rock-n-locks but I read recently to where he got his hands on a model equipped with a magwell & LRBHO and he loved it.  Sunnybean has a whole family of magwell equipped shotties.  He might have something to say on this topic as well.

 

Don't like the use of plastic?  Hate to break it to you but if you want something similar to a S-12C you'll have to settle for about 1/3 of the gun being plastic.  I'm assuming you want OEM.  The molot magwell (vepr-12) is metal and cross compatible.  Though finding one is a whole different story.

 

So, where are you heading with all this?  Any closer to making a decision?

 

My concern for you SaigaNW is not your gun setup but rather your lack of magazines and the current market/politics.  Sure we may get you into one sweet ride in the end but how satisfied will you be driving on steel black rims?  The decision to run magwell mags or rock-n-locks should be your first concern.  Purchasing them should be your second.  Purchasing the gun should be your third.  I say this because a month ago I was in your same shoes and I ended up purchasing all my mags right at the peak time.  I still don't have a gun nor do I know what my final gun configuration will be.  You need high capacity magazines and your running out of time for that...

FYI, the AWB bill that passed in the 90's limited all auto loading shotguns to a maximum magazine capacity of 5 rounds! 

 

You'll have a good option for purchasing a shotgun as long as Legion has builds available.  Watch their availability religiously. 

Thanks for all the info HighPlainsDrifter. You are pointing out the most important aspects of the complete purchase of a system, not just a shotty. It appears that I must learn to like plastic or move on to something else...

 

The S12 seems like the best way to go as far as a platform goes - so that is the direction I'm going until I find something more appealing.

 

I'm having trouble finding the OEM mags. Is that just a recent problem? What I like about them is the metal lip that is less prone to breaking than the plastic stuff. So I would probably take that route first. Anywhere you could point me to in finding some? It seems that time could be on the short side right now. Like burning a candle from both ends...



#26 HighPlainsDrifter

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:35 AM

OEM Russian 8 rounders were becoming more available and better priced this last fall.  Then the shooting occurred; panic, panic, and they all disappeared from the domestic market.  Rock-n-Locks can be found on gun broker for outrageous prices, $200-$300 a pop!  Magwell Russian 8's can still be ordered at rusmilitary for about $150 not including shipping. 

 

It's important to decide if your running a magwell or not.  If your going to drop that much cash on a magazine you'll want to get it right the first time.

 

My advice, temporarily put OEM to the back of your mind and concentrate on building a domestic stock.  I went with SGM because of their reputation.  I'm posting you a link to the unoffical SGM Magazine thread.  People have been posting there when they become available.  My suggestion is to "follow" the thread and enable it to give you notifications.  Check daily if not twice daily.  

 

Link...  http://forum.saiga-1...-sgm-magazines/

 

I find this platform appealing as well.  Like I told another member, "I wish women were more like the S-12; buy a basic model and keep making changes until you get it right!" 


Edited by HighPlainsDrifter, 25 January 2013 - 03:44 AM.

"Alaskans are hard-living, fast-drinking, and cheap-loving."  - Mr. Whitekeys

 

 





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