U.S.A. made bolt/bolt carrier? And, will standard AK fit Saiga?

[JDNJ1985 0]

Hi guys,

 

I've been searching for American made bolt/bolt carriers for the 7.62. I haven't found many.

 

Which do you guys recommend?

 

Will any standard AK bolt/bolt carrier work?

 

thanks

 

-Joe

[chevymann 13]

A USA made bolt and bolt carrier would be something I would be interested in. A galil style charging handle would be a nice option as well.

[JDNJ1985 0]

Yeah, it seems like they almost don't exist though. I've been doing some extensive searching. I'm just trying to get my parts count in order so I'm compliant.

 

So far:

 

-USA Buttstock

-USATrigger assembly (3)

-USA Gas Piston

-USA Handguards

-USA magazine (3)

-USA pistol grip

 

 

-Joe

[nalioth 405]

I've been searching for American made bolt/bolt carriers for the 7.62. I haven't found many.

I haven't found or heard of any.

 

Will any standard AK bolt/bolt carrier work?

What are you trying to do?

[chevymann 13]

I think it would be a cool idea to assemble a 100% USA made AK.. But then theres the issue of finding a USA made AK barrell. Not something I would spend a ton of time on, but if the parts were available.. who knows?

[JDNJ1985 0]

I've been searching for American made bolt/bolt carriers for the 7.62. I haven't found many.

I haven't found or heard of any.

 

Will any standard AK bolt/bolt carrier work?

What are you trying to do?

 

I was purely interested in this to count towards my compliance list. I have done more research since then, so this thread can be deleted if possible.

 

-Joe

[nalioth 405]

But then theres the issue of finding a USA made AK barrell.

Not an issue. Green Mountain Barrel Works is providing Century with thousands of AK barrels. What do you think is gonna happen when Century says to them "OK, we have enough now." ?

[JDNJ1985 0]

Oh, a bit off topic, but back to part of my original question:

 

Will any standard AK bolt carrier fit in the Saiga? I'd like to find the polished kind eventually.

 

-Joe

[Kwicko 8]

Will any standard AK bolt carrier fit in the Saiga? I'd like to find the polished kind eventually.

 

Well, I couldn't resist - I just had to try to swap the bolt/carrier from my Norinco MAK-90 into my Saiga, but it wouldn't cycle or seat correctly. I never did try to fire it that way, for fear of jacking it up badly.

 

I kind of decided from that short experience that the bolt carrier for the Saiga isn't interchangeable with other AKs. I could be crazy though...

 

Mike

[muttman2 0]

Will any standard AK bolt carrier fit in the Saiga? I'd like to find the polished kind eventually.

 

Well, I couldn't resist - I just had to try to swap the bolt/carrier from my Norinco MAK-90 into my Saiga, but it wouldn't cycle or seat correctly. I never did try to fire it that way, for fear of jacking it up badly.

 

I kind of decided from that short experience that the bolt carrier for the Saiga isn't interchangeable with other AKs. I could be crazy though...

 

Mike

 

Mike,

good thing you did not pull on a live round. head spacing is set with the bolt head to the barrel. you could have a K-BOOM, not good for your face. if you put a diffrent bolt head in the gun then YOU need to check head spacing ( this goes for all guns).

yes you can use a diffrent bolt carrier and bolt head. the saiga used a small stem bolt head and carrier not the standard AKM bolt set up. if you get a AKM bolt carrier and bolt head then they will fit and checking of head spacing.

 

muttman2

[JDNJ1985 0]

Will any standard AK bolt carrier fit in the Saiga? I'd like to find the polished kind eventually.

 

Well, I couldn't resist - I just had to try to swap the bolt/carrier from my Norinco MAK-90 into my Saiga, but it wouldn't cycle or seat correctly. I never did try to fire it that way, for fear of jacking it up badly.

 

I kind of decided from that short experience that the bolt carrier for the Saiga isn't interchangeable with other AKs. I could be crazy though...

 

Mike

 

Mike,

good thing you did not pull on a live round. head spacing is set with the bolt head to the barrel. you could have a K-BOOM, not good for your face. if you put a diffrent bolt head in the gun then YOU need to check head spacing ( this goes for all guns).

yes you can use a diffrent bolt carrier and bolt head. the saiga used a small stem bolt head and carrier not the standard AKM bolt set up. if you get a AKM bolt carrier and bolt head then they will fit and checking of head spacing.

 

muttman2

 

Thanks!

 

-Joe

[Kwicko 8]

Yeah, thanks Mutt!

 

Not knowing enough about headspacing or the internals and how it all works (yet, anyway), I think I'll just stick with leaving my Saiga parts in my Saiga and my MAK-90 parts in my MAK-90. Both rifles seem to work just fine the way they are, so why push it?

 

Thanks again for the heads-up - and for helping me keep my face!

 

Mike

[SJgunguy 5]

 

The AK lightning bolt is cool but 225$ is pricey.

 

MY BAD

Edited August 28, 2008 by SJgunguy24

[nalioth 405]

 

The AK lightning bolt is cool but 225$ is pricey.

.... Cool, pricey, and still doesn't count as a US made part . . .

[22_Shooter 1,560]

 

The AK lightning bolt is cool but 225$ is pricey.

 

MY BAD

 

So besides the LH charging handle, what does it do differently? It says "run your AK smoother and faster". How?

[nalioth 405]

So besides the LH charging handle, what does it do differently? It says "run your AK smoother and faster". How?

The thought is that as a right handed shooter, you keep your hand on the pistol grip while charging / clearing the rifle equipped with the "lightning bolt" mod.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

So besides the LH charging handle, what does it do differently? It says "run your AK smoother and faster". How?

The thought is that as a right handed shooter, you keep your hand on the pistol grip while charging / clearing the rifle equipped with the "lightning bolt" mod.

 

Ah, gotcha. I took it as it made the AK itself run faster/smoother, which is what I didn't get .

[UnidenStew 1]

yes you can use a diffrent bolt carrier and bolt head. the saiga used a small stem bolt head and carrier not the standard AKM bolt set up. if you get a AKM bolt carrier and bolt head then they will fit and checking of head spacing.

 

muttman2

 

So does that mean that there are two types of AKM bolt carriers, small stem and standard? And where could I obtain one to fit? I've been looking for a spare parts set for Saiga 7.62X39 for a long time. I've tried to make an issue of it, however, nobody but me and another member here think it is important. Thanks.

[nalioth 405]

yes you can use a diffrent bolt carrier and bolt head. the saiga used a small stem bolt head and carrier not the standard AKM bolt set up. if you get a AKM bolt carrier and bolt head then they will fit and checking of head spacing.

 

muttman2

 

So does that mean that there are two types of AKM bolt carriers, small stem and standard? And where could I obtain one to fit? I've been looking for a spare parts set for Saiga 7.62X39 for a long time. I've tried to make an issue of it, however, nobody but me and another member here think it is important. Thanks.

The small stem bolt carriers are from AK74s, not AKM rifles.

 

The Saiga is the civilian version of the AK-103 and I'm not sure if Izhmash has gone to AK74 type bolt carriers for their entire AK-100 series lineup.

[UnidenStew 1]

yes you can use a diffrent bolt carrier and bolt head. the saiga used a small stem bolt head and carrier not the standard AKM bolt set up. if you get a AKM bolt carrier and bolt head then they will fit and checking of head spacing.

 

muttman2

 

So does that mean that there are two types of AKM bolt carriers, small stem and standard? And where could I obtain one to fit? I've been looking for a spare parts set for Saiga 7.62X39 for a long time. I've tried to make an issue of it, however, nobody but me and another member here think it is important. Thanks.

The small stem bolt carriers are from AK74s, not AKM rifles.

 

The Saiga is the civilian version of the AK-103 and I'm not sure if Izhmash has gone to AK74 type bolt carriers for their entire AK-100 series lineup.

 

Okay, but my limited knowledge tells me that the AK74 is a 5.45X39mm rifle. Is there another 7.62X39 version of this, or are the cases similar, rimmed or rimless?

 

If it would work, I'd give it a try.

[nalioth 405]

Okay, but my limited knowledge tells me that the AK74 is a 5.45X39mm rifle. Is there another 7.62X39 version of this, or are the cases similar, rimmed or rimless?

 

If it would work, I'd give it a try.

If the Russians are using all small stem bolts in their AK-100 series rifles, then they're using small stem bolts for 7.62x39, 5.56x45 and 5.45x39.

[UnidenStew 1]

I see. Thanks for the replies.

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

Will any standard AK bolt carrier fit in the Saiga? I'd like to find the polished kind eventually.

 

Well, I couldn't resist - I just had to try to swap the bolt/carrier from my Norinco MAK-90 into my Saiga, but it wouldn't cycle or seat correctly. I never did try to fire it that way, for fear of jacking it up badly.

 

I kind of decided from that short experience that the bolt carrier for the Saiga isn't interchangeable with other AKs. I could be crazy though...

 

Mike

 

Mike,

good thing you did not pull on a live round. head spacing is set with the bolt head to the barrel. you could have a K-BOOM, not good for your face. if you put a diffrent bolt head in the gun then YOU need to check head spacing ( this goes for all guns).

yes you can use a diffrent bolt carrier and bolt head. the saiga used a small stem bolt head and carrier not the standard AKM bolt set up. if you get a AKM bolt carrier and bolt head then they will fit and checking of head spacing.

 

muttman2

This is incorrect. Headspacing on virtually all guns is a function of chamber dimensions. The exception is roller-delayed blowback guns like the HK series and American magnum rounds. HK guns do headspace off the bolt. This is why a bolt gap is needed in these guns. Magnums headspace off the band on the rear magnum case. The 7.62x39 round as well as almost all bottle necked cartridges headspace on the shoulder which is inside the chamber. Excessive headspace= a cartridge that is too far into the chamber. The opposite is a short chambered barrel and this is usually how all new barrels come so when placed within the receiver the chamber interior is chamfered to allow proper seating of the round to the bolt face. This process involves removing metal inside the chamber until the bolt closes. Changing bolts are not recommended on AR series rifles but unless you change the barrel, changing the bolt on an AK will not be an issue. I put a brand new bulgy FA bolt and carrier from Global trades into a Yugo B70., works fine. The issue of this component not working from a MAK to a Saiga is differences in the specs between the two rifles. The MAK bolt and carrier has differences in tolerances than that of a Saiga. Finally, Go, no-go gages measure the chamber not the bolt breech interface. Err on the side of safety and check it anyway for your own peace of mind but if it fits and cycles easily loading and extracting, it should be OK.

Edited August 31, 2008 by U.S Praetorian

[Reverendfranz 160]

Headspacing on virtually all guns is a function of chamber dimensions. The exception is roller-delayed blowback guns like the HK series and American magnum rounds. HK guns do headspace off the bolt. I put a brand new bulgy FA bolt and carrier from Global trades into a Yugo B70., works fine. The issue of this component not working from a MAK to a Saiga is differences in the specs between the two rifles. The MAK bolt and carrier has differences in tolerances than that of a Saiga. Finally, Go, no-go gages measure the chamber not the bolt breech interface. Err on the side of safety and check it anyway for your own peace of mind but if it fits and cycles easily loading and extracting, it should be OK.

 

You are close, but mistaken. Headspace on all rimless cartridges is a measurement of the distance from the breech face (bolt) to a specific line measured on the portion of the chamber that supports the cartridge, this point on the shoulder is called the Datum Line. This distance, as well as the exact location of the datum line is listed in the SAAMI and MIL spec for each specific cartridge. As the tolerances on AK's vary greatly, this distance is not only set by the chamber depth, but the locking lugs on both the bolt and the trunnion. While you can always swap a bolt carrier without effecting this dimension, any change to the bolt itself has the potential to change this distance, to potentially disastrous consequences.

 

While short headspace will not effect the safety of a firearm, it will prevent the bolt from closing, as the bolt with a live round will bottom out in the chamber before the lugs are able to engage. A long or exsessive headspace, however, allows movement of the case during firing. This can cause case stretching, case separation (ruptured case), and gas leakage. When the powder is ignited the base of the cartridge can move back while the sides of the case stick to the walls of the chamber. As a result the case can separate and rupture, spewing hot gas back into the shooters face and eyes, and potentially damaging the firearm.

 

It is highly recomended, when replacing or modifying any of those three components that effect headspace, that the headspace be checked. Headspace Guages can be purchased online, borrowed from some forums, or checked by many local gunsmiths. If none of these options are availiable or viable, headspace can be measured in a pinch by stacking scotch or masking tape on the bottom of a live round. A 7.26x39 rifle shouldnt close (without forcing it) on a live round with 3 pieces of masking tape.

Edited August 31, 2008 by ReverendFranz

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

Headspacing on virtually all guns is a function of chamber dimensions. The exception is roller-delayed blowback guns like the HK series and American magnum rounds. HK guns do headspace off the bolt. I put a brand new bulgy FA bolt and carrier from Global trades into a Yugo B70., works fine. The issue of this component not working from a MAK to a Saiga is differences in the specs between the two rifles. The MAK bolt and carrier has differences in tolerances than that of a Saiga. Finally, Go, no-go gages measure the chamber not the bolt breech interface. Err on the side of safety and check it anyway for your own peace of mind but if it fits and cycles easily loading and extracting, it should be OK.

 

You are close, but mistaken. Headspace on all rimless cartridges is a measurement of the distance from the breech face (bolt) to a specific line measured on the portion of the chamber that supports the cartridge, this point on the shoulder is called the Datum Line.

Not mistaken, This is still a function of chamber dimension. A short chamber is adjusted by reaming the chamber/shoulder seat until the cartridge goes further into the chamber, this increases the datum line. In a long or excessive chamber this distance has been increased and the cartridge can have excessive play in the chamber.This cannot be fixed. The bolt or breechface has nothing to do with headspace other than it is the end point of the datum line. It is not adjustable it is static. You do not adjust the bolt to obtain correct headspace only the chamber depth. If the bolt won't close the chamber is reamed until it does close. It will however, close on a chamber with excessive headspace necessetating go/no-go gauges.

[Reverendfranz 160]

Im not trying to argue, but i do find it ill advised to recommend forgoing a basic safety and function check. As an AK, specifically, wears, headspace increases. Chamber wear is rare, but as the lugs on both the receiver and the bolt absorb recoil they do wear the bearing surface, causing the bolt face to settle at a greater distance from the chamber shoulder and increasing the headspace, to potentially poor results. This was an issue with the manufacturers of several early US made AK and Galil receivers, as they werent properly heat treated and the lugs wore abnormally fast, resulting in a growing headspace as the bolt face, in lockup, was further from the Datum line. as time went on, these rifles would become unsafe. the same sort of wear can happen to bolt lugs, and as the differences i can measure on the width of the lugs on the bolts i have, have a higher variance than the window of what is considered safe headspace, i dont find it at all unlikely that someone could swap a bolt with one of a different manufacture, or with a worn bolt and could create a bad situation. regardless of debate, i cant see any reason not to check the headspace when changing either the barrel or bolt, regardless if it works in a different rifle.

 

I would go a little farther in a disclaimer and state that the tape and round method, is not accurate enough to be used as anything other than a field expedient method, as the space between a military Go and a No-Go gauge is less than a 10th of a millimeter, and the SAAMI spec should be tighter than that. thats about the thickness of a piece of paper between my rifle work, and my rifle might blow up. But rather than let somebody not check at all, id still recomend they check with the three tape round as a no go, and if it fails to easily close, not fire the rifle without first seeking some compitent advise, as this is far beyond a safe spec.

 

IMHO

Edited September 1, 2008 by ReverendFranz

[muttman2 0]

all,

head spacing is a case /chamber max distence. the phiscal setting of head spacing is with movment of the barrel to the bolt in the locked position. if head spacing is bad (faild no go) then the barrel need to be moved and a bigger barrel pin hole redrild and new barrel in staled.

 

muttman