SHTF rifle, on the fence

[Shellshock1918 1]

FAL.

 

M14/M1A is the one of the most overrated rifles. However I do like Garands.

 

Compared to the G3 and the FAL, the M14 is leagues behind.

[Motopilot1 37]

FAL.

 

M14/M1A is the one of the most overrated rifles. However I do like Garands.

 

Compared to the G3 and the FAL, the M14 is leagues behind.

 

funny you say that, im pretty sure the m1a shares most of the garand design and that the m1a will out shoot both the g3 and the fal. dont get me wrong i love all 3 rifles i own all 3 of them but to say the m1a is leagues behind is a simply dumb ass statement. do you own all 3 have you shot all 3? im pretty sure you havent or else you would know.

Edited October 5, 2008 by motopilot1

[KrisFox 69]

FAL.

 

M14/M1A is the one of the most overrated rifles. However I do like Garands.

 

Compared to the G3 and the FAL, the M14 is leagues behind.

 

funny you say that, im pretty sure the m1a shares most of the garand design and that the m1a will out shoot both the g3 and the fal. dont get me wrong i love all 3 rifles i own all 3 of them but to say the m1a is leagues behind is a simply dumb ass statement. do you own all 3 have you shot all 3? im pretty sure you havent or else you would know.

 

The M1A stems from a very old US military tradition.

 

 

You take the old standard issue musket and send it to get rifled barrel installed.

 

The cap and ball revolver got a pin hammer and cartridge cylinder.

 

The Garand gained 2 lbs, a box mag, and full auto.

 

 

 

The only reason the M1A is accurate.

 

"What are we going to do with all the M1A's they made us replace with the M16?"

 

"I know. Will use every trick in the book to make it accurate. All we need is a new barrel, stock, trigger group, bolt, different operating springs..."

 

 

 

 

I'm sure if I added a custom built barrel, trigger group, stock, etc to a FAL I could make it just as accurate.

 

O wait. DSA has one already. But its so $$$. Well so is the Whitefeather that Springfield makes...

[Twinsen 86]

I would put the M14 in the class of rifles that requires tools and a workbench. I think that alone makes it a not-for-SHTF type gun. Really nice if you want to spend $3,000 to make one hole at 200 yards though. I think just always being able to produce a headshot on a human target at 200 yards is plenty, I don't think anybody needs WHICH EYE SHOULD I HIT HIM IN type accuracy. But hey, to each his own. But again, for SHTF, I think faggy target guns are.. faggy target guns.

[gunnysmith 4]

Personally, I would go with a .22, lots of ammo that is lightweight, cheap, and plentiful. You can carry a fair bit, and in SHTF situations where your range of fire is not great, a well placed shot can kill. They also don't make as much noise thus not attracting unwanted attention.

Correct answer. SHTF amd guerilla warfare are two different things.

.22 LR = light weight. relatively quiet, accurate reliable.

The .22 LR will kill anything that needs killing or walks or crawls in a survival situation.

In guerilla warefare, your enemy is your supplier, after all he has the better logistics.

Your job then becomes to break his will to fight for his cause.

[Azrial 1,091]

I own both, they both have their strengths!

 

But having only the time to pick one or the other, I would grab my DSA Para FAL. A far more proven rifle on the battlefield and a more hardy rifle.

 

Most FALs will not shoot as accurately as a M1A, but they plenty accurate enough for the work they are interned,

[SOPMOD 254]

I ditched a DSA Paratrooper and an M1A over the last couple of years and now run a Saiga S308.That being said both weapons have their place.The DSA Para is great if you think you need to use 308 as an intermediate cartridge(overkill) and the M1A is great if you are used to conventional rifle stocks and depend heavily on iron sights but if you run an S12 or a Saiga rifle as a primary already you can eliminate an entire set of learned muscle memory(and a couple thousand rounds of practice ammo) by using a Saiga for your 308 as well.

 

I will tell you this:My S308 cost less than either my M1A or FAL including each rifle having 12 magazines,a high quality picatinnny mount and an optic and would go toe to toe with my M1A in the accuracy department and kick that FALs ass completely OFF.

 

The one caveat is that the FAL did have a tunable gas system and could be adjusted to cycle the shittiest ammunition ever made while my S308 will barely toss the brass out with Indian milsurp and gave me 2 malfunctions(the only 2 malfunctions it has ever had) in about 500rds since cutting the barrel down to 18" but then again who would bet their life on bullshit ammo like that Indian milsurp anyway?

 

I cut my teeth on Garands,I shot M1As for 20 years and I like the M1A better than the FAL for a serious rifleman's rifle but I run a Bulgy Krink,Yugo Krink,Saiga 7.62 AK104 clone,S12 and will probably have one of those 22lr AKs by the time the Obamalypse gets under way so the S308 is a natural.I transition from weapon to weapon with no fumbling,no thinking just flowing hot lead onto targets with everything I use.

 

Beware the man with one gun(or one type of gun)

 

 

Edited January 23, 2009 by SOPMOD

[Shellshock1918 1]

FAL.

 

M14/M1A is the one of the most overrated rifles. However I do like Garands.

 

Compared to the G3 and the FAL, the M14 is leagues behind.

 

funny you say that, im pretty sure the m1a shares most of the garand design and that the m1a will out shoot both the g3 and the fal.

Ever heard of the PSG series of sniper rifles?

 

 

The M14, IMO is overrated. I've handled all three, but not shot all three. Knowing the history of all of them, you would find that the M14 was a perfect example of American BS.

 

During the trials of the early 50s, the US ALMOST adopted the FAL over the M14. In fact that was the compromise between the British and the US; the US would adopt the FAL and the Brits agreed on the US 7.62x51 round. However the jingoism inside of the Army prevented the FAL from being accepted. Springfield armory and the US army took opportunity to try and discredit the FAL at all costs. The only reason the M14 won the contest with the Army is because of the leadership there that refused to accept a non-American rifle as their standard infantry rifle, no matter how much better it was.

 

 

The M14 would have been great, had it been invented and implemented in 1942. By the early 50s the nature of warfare was changing. The AK and STG '44 had revolutionized infantry combat. The FAL was next in that firearms revolution but the US insisted on upping the caliber to 7.62x51.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Shellshock1918

[PinkFloyd 63]

If you want a .308 SHTF gun, get a G3. I hear good things about some of the PTR 91's. Maybe look at an AR-10? If you're deadset on either of these two rifles, go with the FAL. I've heard some pretty nasty things about M1A's and mud... look it up on youtube if you don't beleive me.

 

Don't get me wrong, i LOVE the M14; Ever since I was a kid I always thought the M14 was the best looking rifle I've ever seen, and I think there is a definite adavantage in accuracy when compared to FAL's, but it's by no means a mud gun, and you'd have to clean it and maintainance it and make sure it was all squared away... not something you should be doing in post apocolyptia.

 

Thats just my two cents.

[DMGunn 1]

***Thread resurrection***

 

I would take the M-14 over the FAL. The US Army chose the M-14 over the FAL for a reason and because it's a better rifle. Another reason the FAL failed in that war was that soldiers used the magazine lips to open soda bottles to drink.

 

Well, that settles it. The FAL is a piece of shit with feed lips that are entirely unsuited for opening soda cans. I can't believe 93 countries could have been so stupid that they overlooked that major design flaw .

 

The reason the US chose the M-14 is because it was made in the U.S.

 

***end thread resurrection***

 

Now I feel better.

Edited July 13, 2009 by DMGunn

[Bvamp 604]

I ditched a DSA Paratrooper and an M1A over the last couple of years and now run a Saiga S308.

 

I agree with the Jew 110%. (not an insult, man, you know me better than that, just keeping it real )

 

for the money, you can turn that 308 into a madman. the m14 is an M1 with some extra shit, and well, the other gun, had its problems too.

 

a 308 AK ? HARD TO BEAT MY FRIEND.

[banshee 69]

I have a DS ARMS STG-58, a PTR (HK91clone) and a Springfield M1A NM.

All three are good guns. You really can't go wrong with either. I like them all. The M1a is the most accurate of the three. The PTR shoots great and mine has run with no problems. It does eject the brass in to the next area code. I perfer the FAL over the other two. It just feels better when shouldered, feels better in your hands and is a hoot to shoot.

 

A 16" .308, it has a lot of muzzle blast.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Banshee

[Surly 11]

I ditched a DSA Paratrooper and an M1A over the last couple of years and now run a Saiga S308.That being said both weapons have their place.The DSA Para is great if you think you need to use 308 as an intermediate cartridge(overkill) and the M1A is great if you are used to conventional rifle stocks and depend heavily on iron sights but if you run an S12 or a Saiga rifle as a primary already you can eliminate an entire set of learned muscle memory(and a couple thousand rounds of practice ammo) by using a Saiga for your 308 as well.

 

I will tell you this:My S308 cost less than either my M1A or FAL including each rifle having 12 magazines,a high quality picatinnny mount and an optic and would go toe to toe with my M1A in the accuracy department and kick that FALs ass completely OFF.

 

The one caveat is that the FAL did have a tunable gas system and could be adjusted to cycle the shittiest ammunition ever made while my S308 will barely toss the brass out with Indian milsurp and gave me 2 malfunctions(the only 2 malfunctions it has ever had) in about 500rds since cutting the barrel down to 18" but then again who would bet their life on bullshit ammo like that Indian milsurp anyway?

 

I cut my teeth on Garands,I shot M1As for 20 years and I like the M1A better than the FAL for a serious rifleman's rifle but I run a Bulgy Krink,Yugo Krink,Saiga 7.62 AK104 clone,S12 and will probably have one of those 22lr AKs by the time the Obamalypse gets under way so the S308 is a natural.I transition from weapon to weapon with no fumbling,no thinking just flowing hot lead onto targets with everything I use.

 

Beware the man with one gun(or one type of gun)

 

 

 

Hey buddy! Remember the FAL pistol? Dear Leader gave me permission to change its configuration.

 

[rastamanila 313]

I would take the M-14 over the FAL. The US Army chose the M-14 over the FAL for a reason and because it's a better rifle.

 

I have a friend who served in the Israeli army in 1967 and curses the FAL because they fouled up during the war with dust in the desert conditions of the Middle East. Another reason the FAL failed in that war was that soldiers used the magazine lips to open soda bottles to drink. The British and Australians added a sand channel in the bolt carrier to avoid the problems the Israeli army experienced. If anyone has access to an old Life Magazine it shows an Israeli soldier swimming in the Suez Canal with a new AK which he took off a dead Egyptian soldier. Many Israeli soldiers did the same during that war.

 

Which is also why Israel later invented the Galil...

[guiri 4]

Go with the right arm of the free world. (The only weapon to see more issue and use in soldiers hands is the AK47)

 

There is a reason the M14 had the shortest run for standard issue rifle in history.

 

McNamara and his whiz kids who pushed the M-16 on the US military. He killed the US arms production industry with one egotistic stroke, which is why the M-14 went away. Now it is coming to roost as the M-16/AR-15 family is probably the most ill designed of all modern weapons issued to contemporary military troops. All due to his doing.

 

So, why then are the AR's so popular even in civilian versions?

Edited November 2, 2009 by guiri

[mav 459]

Go with the right arm of the free world. (The only weapon to see more issue and use in soldiers hands is the AK47)

 

There is a reason the M14 had the shortest run for standard issue rifle in history.

 

McNamara and his whiz kids who pushed the M-16 on the US military. He killed the US arms production industry with one egotistic stroke, which is why the M-14 went away. Now it is coming to roost as the M-16/AR-15 family is probably the most ill designed of all modern weapons issued to contemporary military troops. All due to his doing.

 

So, why then are the AR's so popular even in civilian versions?

 

 

Answer? Sheeple.

 

Peer pressure.

 

"Hey dude check out this tacticool AR-15 I got, it will shoot the eye out of a fly at 100 yds, with match ammo, and it only FTF's every 50 rds, and I only paid $xxxx for it."

 

"Oh cool, I'm gonna get me one of them so I can be cool like you"

[Steppe Sweeper 22]

I ditched a DSA Paratrooper and an M1A over the last couple of years and now run a Saiga S308.That being said both weapons have their place.The DSA Para is great if you think you need to use 308 as an intermediate cartridge(overkill) and the M1A is great if you are used to conventional rifle stocks and depend heavily on iron sights but if you run an S12 or a Saiga rifle as a primary already you can eliminate an entire set of learned muscle memory(and a couple thousand rounds of practice ammo) by using a Saiga for your 308 as well.

 

I will tell you this:My S308 cost less than either my M1A or FAL including each rifle having 12 magazines,a high quality picatinnny mount and an optic and would go toe to toe with my M1A in the accuracy department and kick that FALs ass completely OFF.

Great post. I've been trying to figure out a .308 ever since reading Boston's Gun Bible a few years back, never wanted one before that, ever sense, I sorta feel naked till I get one. The learned muscle memory, I'm living proof. Always had Mini 14's while wishing it was a AR180 or FNC or AUG or something. While I had settled for it, got so much trigger time on one that I'd take one over any AK or AR out there. a Sig 556 Classic or MSAR have enough good points to try something new if I could, otherwise in a .223 gimme the new 16" Mini with Hogue stock and GB flash hider and jungle sight. Cool or not I know them too well to feel as at home with anything else.

 

Which is why I've been head over heals in love with the Socom 16 since I first handled one. And after getting to bust off one mag, knew that was my only one perfect rifle. It's for the most part a beefier Mini...but is a .308 that shoots like a .223. That conventional stock I know is not as attractive as modern pistol grips...but for function, a conventional stock has been with me since I was 10 or so with my Crosman and .22. Likewise my S-12 will never have that perfect feel the Mossberg 930 SPX does. Funny thing is I finally gave up the other day, Socom and SPX. I can get a s-308 16" for under 600., what it will cost in the end who knows, but something just told me to standardize, make my rifle and shotgun both saigas.

I'm really not looking forward to the conversion cause if I don't find a Saiga smith in MI will have to do it myself and I've never done more than fieldstrip a firearms, no mechanical aptitude at all.

 

Cetme/G3/HK91/PTRs have as much inherent reliability or more than an AK. Good for SHTF. That said, invariably their triggers suck so bad they may as well not even be a .308 if long range minute of man accuracy is a concern. People hate the sigts never bothered me but the rifle had such a horrible balance and that ridiculous trigger and over stated recoil. To look at them you'd think they'd be the most pleasant of MBRs. Actually though I fired a wooden Cetme, CIA not horrible assembly, and have to say it was better than a PTR 91 or a SA imported Greek made HK-91 in every respect. It was not bad at all.

I fondled the new Century HK93 last week and was amazed, they really got it together with those, I kind of liked it. First time I ever even saw a HK based .223, always heard they were as heavy as the .308 and same shootability flaws. This one must have just sat in a warehouse in its past life as a military assault rifle, everything looked like it was almost new. Thought the carry handle bayonet and 2 40s were great touches. The clerk came over and said, "this is the new GSG-5 .223, they make em in that now". LOL

I heard the HK91s outsold 93s something like 20 to one commercially. Michigan State Police IIRC still use the HK33(?select fire 93)to this day

Edited November 12, 2009 by Steppe Sweeper