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Bullpup Saigas?


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#1 BUFF_dragon

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 08:58 PM

http://www.centerfir.../STKAKA-BP.aspx
will this kit work on my 223 or 12???

how hard would it be to make fit?
I may pick up one of these kits from Centerfire tomorrow when I pick up my S12's that finally came in..... I'm definetly gonna try to take a look and compare it to the Saiga's no matter what....
I think a bullpup 12 would just be AWESOME

#2 superhawk138

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 09:01 PM

http://www.centerfir.../STKAKA-BP.aspx
will this kit work on my 223 or 12???

how hard would it be to make fit?
I may pick up one of these kits from Centerfire tomorrow when I pick up my S12's that finally came in..... I'm definetly gonna try to take a look and compare it to the Saiga's no matter what....
I think a bullpup 12 would just be AWESOME

This following picture belongs to Chibajoe and his Saiga 20
Attached File  saiga20bullpup3.jpg   283KB   336 downloads

#3 BUFF_dragon

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 09:04 PM

would anything else be needed to make 922R

#4 KrisFox

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Posted 28 August 2008 - 11:26 PM

would anything else be needed to make 922R

Tromix "Puck"
Us made muzzle device.
Us made mags.

And I think your good.
Yes it's a $250 shotgun. No, I paid $550 for it. Yes, I did a lot of work to it. Sure, I can build you one just like it for $1500.

#5 BUFF_dragon

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 01:49 PM

well, i went and picked up too much stuff from centerfire..... that place is like a playground for gun-fanatics....

I got some S12's and 1 bullpup kit...
the kit doesn't come with any instructions, it is literally just a bunch of plastic parts, screws, and metal peices in a bag.... I'm gonna need some help, hopefully some photo instructions or somethin to set one of these up.... somebody hook me up PLEASE!!!

#6 Dancing Bear

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 02:17 PM

It is supposed to come with an instructions page.

http://www.ak-47.us/Bullpup-001.php
NOTICE: This post is not for use by anyone in TN. View at your own risk!

#7 BUFF_dragon

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 03:36 PM

nope, none, of their kits have instructions... I think he said that these kits are century, not KVAR

there was no instruction page at all, so I'm sitin at my table trying to figure out how the peices will fit after all the cutting and shit goes on , gotta relocate the trigger on the saiga and clearance the handgaurd from the kit... I'm sure there is more that i've not found yet, but I hope to get this thing done before tooooooo much longer...
I'm getting excited

#8 frick

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 10:08 PM

That pic above is ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!

How exactly was the sight rail added?

Interesting thread, post pics please.
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#9 BUFF_dragon

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:21 AM

after trying to just place the peices together on the 12, I found that that kit will not work as designed on the 12..... the gas block is the main problem with it... it would take MAJOR modification, but with my 223, it looks like it'll work almost perfectly...

I'm trying to figure out how I can design something that'll work with the 12 as I think that a bullpup 12 would just me bad-fuckin-ass...

#10 KrisFox

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:38 PM

after trying to just place the peices together on the 12, I found that that kit will not work as designed on the 12..... the gas block is the main problem with it... it would take MAJOR modification, but with my 223, it looks like it'll work almost perfectly...

I'm trying to figure out how I can design something that'll work with the 12 as I think that a bullpup 12 would just me bad-fuckin-ass...


I'm using a poor mans flat bending jig to bend a "handguard/receiver extention." Bolt to gas block like a normal handguard. It should look like the receiver was stretched when I'm done.

It will house the trigger, pistol grip and safety. I'm using a trigger blocking safety and eliminating the safety lever.

I'm also cutting a slot in the gas tube and drill/tapping the op rod for a charging handle in a similar fashion to the G3/MP5.

I may even have a mock up this coming weekend.
Yes it's a $250 shotgun. No, I paid $550 for it. Yes, I did a lot of work to it. Sure, I can build you one just like it for $1500.

#11 Reveprend Franz

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 08:06 PM

This might give you a little guidance on some else's solution:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Not a 12, but still very clean.

Posted Image

This thread is like watching Jerry Springer, but with shotguns.


"Could it all be a bad dream, or a nightmare? Is it my imagination, or have we lost our minds? It's surreal; it's just not believable. A grand absurdity; a great deception, a delusion of momentous proportions; based on preposterous notions; and on ideas whose time should never have come; simplicity grossly distorted and complicated; insanity passed off as logic; grandiose schemes built on falsehoods with the morality of Ponzi and Madoff; evil described as virtue; ignorance pawned off as wisdom; destruction and impoverishment in the name of humanitarianism; violence, the tool of change; preventive wars used as the road to peace; tolerance delivered by government guns; reactionary views in the guise of progress; an empire replacing the Republic; slavery sold as liberty;"


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#12 superhawk138

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 08:30 PM

This might give you a little guidance on some else's solution:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Not a 12, but still very clean.

Posted Image

Those are nice. Makes me want to reassemle my .410
Attached File  CIMG0354.JPG   174.48KB   40 downloads

Edited by Superhawk138, 01 September 2008 - 08:31 PM.


#13 hedonistic

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 08:52 PM

Resurrecting the dead here

did this thing work


I want one its badass!

Build a kit you will sell lots! if anyone can send me to a gun smith that will build one I am sold. I love bullpups and I have wanted a magazine fed shotgun for forever.

Edited by hedonistic, 26 January 2009 - 09:15 PM.


#14 swansong

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 12:48 AM

If anyone has a professional kit which will properly convert a standard S12 to a bullpup then let me know as I will buy it now! If anyone wants to offer a professional conversion service it would save me the time of finding a gunsmith to do the conversion for me. I want a S12 bullpup!

#15 USMC_LB

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 08:07 AM

For years I slobbered after anything bullpup! My first bullpup was a factory built
Mossberg M-500 that was designed with LE/Mil in mind.

I was in love! So compact!!

It commanded alot of attention whenever I took it somewhere
to shoot.

After extensive use I realized its short-falls as a true defensive firearm.
Things that the LE / Mil would utterly reject.

Now keep in mind, if you wanna build a bullpup just for the hell of it
and only plan on using it on paper targets then dont read any farther.

But if you would consider using it as a defensive shotgun or home
protection, please read on.

Knowing what I know about bullpups and Saiga 12s, these would
be the main problems and what I can forsee if you build a bullpup
from a S12:

1) Trigger pull ALWAYS sucks ( but all bullpup owners know that one,
they dont mention it, except to other bullpup owners...)

2) Keeping the the weapon pointed on target and doing a quick mag
change it almost impossible. (but could be made alot easier
and faster with a magwell and magwell modified mags)

3) Keeping the weapon pointed on target and utilizing the BHO device
is definitely out of the question. Which pretty much makes Rock
N Lock mag changes pretty much impossible.

4) Keeping the weapon pointed on target, the only way to cycle the bolt
is to reach over the weapon with your left hand and do it.

That pretty much limits you to iron sights. Looking at the picture
of the bullpup with the scope on it, you would definitely have to
remove your trigger hand from the pistol grip to cycle the bolt.
A big no-no for a good defensive weapon.

5) No left hand shooting. In a tactical situation sometimes it is to your
advantage or sometimes you are forced to. You cannot with a bullpup
S12, period.

6) Dangerous cheekweld. Go look at pictures of AKs that have KaBOOMed.
I cannot imagine my cheek and eye being that close to the danger-zone.



YMMV

LB
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#16 The Globule

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 01:15 PM

+1
It puzzles me that some may consider this an "upgrade"
By all means, it looks like an expensive "downgrade" to me...

#17 Nailbomb

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 08:01 PM

trigger pull will never be very crisp, but it can be made better by throwing out the supplied linkage and making your own out of tig welding rod. Much more firm and cuts on a lot of the "squishyness"

Just a suggestion to anyone doing one of these...
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#18 KrisFox

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 06:51 AM

For years I slobbered after anything bullpup! My first bullpup was a factory built
Mossberg M-500 that was designed with LE/Mil in mind.

I was in love! So compact!!

It commanded alot of attention whenever I took it somewhere
to shoot.

After extensive use I realized its short-falls as a true defensive firearm.
Things that the LE / Mil would utterly reject.

Now keep in mind, if you wanna build a bullpup just for the hell of it
and only plan on using it on paper targets then dont read any farther.

But if you would consider using it as a defensive shotgun or home
protection, please read on.

Knowing what I know about bullpups and Saiga 12s, these would
be the main problems and what I can forsee if you build a bullpup
from a S12:

1) Trigger pull ALWAYS sucks ( but all bullpup owners know that one,
they dont mention it, except to other bullpup owners...)
(There are ways to make it not as bad but yes it will never be a match trigger. On a rifle (trigger squeezed) this makes a difference on a shotgun (Trigger pulled) not so much)

2) Keeping the the weapon pointed on target and doing a quick mag
change it almost impossible. (but could be made alot easier
and faster with a magwell and magwell modified mags)
(Practice makes a huge difference. I'm going a different rout. I'm going with reverse lock in mags like the S 30-06)

3) Keeping the weapon pointed on target and utilizing the BHO device
is definitely out of the question. Which pretty much makes Rock
N Lock mag changes pretty much impossible.
(Unless you can get a LRBHO when they come out. Or design a BHO linkage)

4) Keeping the weapon pointed on target, the only way to cycle the bolt
is to reach over the weapon with your left hand and do it.
(I'm modifying my gastube and piston to use a nonreciprocating MP5 style charging handle. You could also use a left side charging handle on the bolt)

That pretty much limits you to iron sights. Looking at the picture
of the bullpup with the scope on it, you would definitely have to
remove your trigger hand from the pistol grip to cycle the bolt.
A big no-no for a good defensive weapon.
(If you have to cycle the weapon your not going to be shooting at the same time. I hear your statement a lot but in reality the difference is a fraction of a second. Again this is less and less of an issue with training)

5) No left hand shooting. In a tactical situation sometimes it is to your
advantage or sometimes you are forced to. You cannot with a bullpup
S12, period.
(Install a shell deflector. My S-12 tosses them well forward so may not need a deflector)

6) Dangerous cheekweld. Go look at pictures of AKs that have KaBOOMed.
I cannot imagine my cheek and eye being that close to the danger-zone.
This is the true draw back to any bullpup. The solution is to redesign the weapon so the KB go's away from your face. I'm planing on using 4-5mm heat treated sheet metal for a dust cover (With proper fitting it should be as solid as if it were bolted on.
Also on the S-12 you have the reverse feed ramp to take a lot of the real brunt of a KB. With a stronger and tight dust cover the KB is going out the magwell.
End result, will is sting? Yes. Will you be covered in crud? Yes. Will you have more than a superficial injury? Probably not.


YMMV

LB


Also. Anyone know of a KB happening with a S-12? Can a KB happen in an S-12?

If someone can recommend a way to rig up an out of battery KB (What I see as being most likely). I'll do a test using a lanyard vice and a small water melon "face" as I'm also interested in a worst case situation.

Also I have seen a bullpup AK out of battery KB. It resulted in a very sore/bruised cheek and jaw and launched the dust cover about 5 feet right. Recovery time for the shooter was 2 days. The cause was a dented shoulder on the fired case that didn't fully chamber. Lesson. Always inspect your ammo as you load it. This is part of why I don't like "speed loader" devices.
Yes it's a $250 shotgun. No, I paid $550 for it. Yes, I did a lot of work to it. Sure, I can build you one just like it for $1500.

#19 IZHMASH JSC

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 03:50 PM

You should check out www.kushnapup.com for saiga 12 bullpup kits.



http://www.centerfir.../STKAKA-BP.aspx
will this kit work on my 223 or 12???

how hard would it be to make fit?
I may pick up one of these kits from Centerfire tomorrow when I pick up my S12's that finally came in..... I'm definetly gonna try to take a look and compare it to the Saiga's no matter what....
I think a bullpup 12 would just be AWESOME


It was 60 years ago the design was first implemented. I am to old for this now, goodbye everyone.

#20 Azrial

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 10:45 PM

For years I slobbered after anything bullpup! My first bullpup was a factory built
Mossberg M-500 that was designed with LE/Mil in mind.

I was in love! So compact!!

It commanded alot of attention whenever I took it somewhere
to shoot.

After extensive use I realized its short-falls as a true defensive firearm.
Things that the LE / Mil would utterly reject.


Yeah, well you might want to tell Israel, France, China, Australia, Austria, and the United Kingdom that, they have all been using Bullpups in their military for years...

1) Trigger pull ALWAYS sucks ( but all bullpup owners know that one,
they dont mention it, except to other bullpup owners...)


I got a $100 bucks that says I have a kVAR Bullpup that after a smooth light take up has a hard crisp trigger with the factory linkage. Most folks do not know how to set them up. Let me know if you are interested in my wager....

2) Keeping the the weapon pointed on target and doing a quick mag
change it almost impossible. (but could be made alot easier
and faster with a magwell and magwell modified mags)


More difficult yes, impossible no. To be sure, Bullpups are not quite as fast to reload, but I think that their advantages outweigh their disadvantages.

3) Keeping the weapon pointed on target and utilizing the BHO device
is definitely out of the question. Which pretty much makes Rock
N Lock mag changes pretty much impossible.

Check out Cobra's $75 Bolt Mod service... I used to load on a closed bolt all the time...

4) Keeping the weapon pointed on target, the only way to cycle the bolt
is to reach over the weapon with your left hand and do it.

That pretty much limits you to iron sights. Looking at the picture
of the bullpup with the scope on it, you would definitely have to
remove your trigger hand from the pistol grip to cycle the bolt.
A big no-no for a good defensive weapon.

I can work the bolt on my kVAR Bullpup reaching from the bottom or across the top, with a scope, even with a drum, you must have short arms! I find it easier if you cant the rifle to the left. Try it...

5) No left hand shooting. In a tactical situation sometimes it is to your
advantage or sometimes you are forced to. You cannot with a bullpup
S12, period.

Wrong method, fire the Bullpup from the center of your chest in H2H and do not even bother to transition.

6) Dangerous cheekweld. Go look at pictures of AKs that have KaBOOMed.
I cannot imagine my cheek and eye being that close to the danger-zone.

Yeah, well good luck with that extra 12" of air space protecting you from a dangerous kaboom...

YMMV

To be sure! :D

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#21 BuffetDestroyer

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 10:46 AM

The main reason a bullpup was a good idea was to increase velocity out of a shorter system. If you cut down the barrel on a .223 or 5.56, then you lose several hundred feet per second in velocity. If you are shooting out to 300 yards with a shorter barrel, you risk not having enough velocity to stabilize the bullets at that distance. The bullpup solved this problem and does have a useful purpose for LE/Military.

However, I feel that for a shotgun, an SBR (short barreled rifle/shotgun) would be fine unless you are shooting slugs out to 100 yards or distance sporting clays. For urban clearing, an SBR would still be more effective, powerful and versatile than any handgun.

If you don't want to get a $200 tax stamp, a bullpup is a bitchin' setup for similar OAL.

This is my opinion.

Opinions are like assholes... Mine is exit only and works for me!

Edited by BuffetDestroyer, 12 March 2009 - 11:35 AM.

Fathom the odd hypocrisy that Obama wants every citizen to prove they are insured, but people don't have to prove they are a citizen.

#22 DiveFlyFun

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Posted 02 May 2009 - 08:53 PM

Yes you can do it and it will look just Century International's AK47 Bullpup.

You will need to purchase the following from dinzagarms (http://www.dinzagarm...2/saiga_12.html)

1) Bolt-On Lower Handguard Retainer

The Bolt-On Lower Handguard Retainer will allow you to attach the trigger housing to the front of the receiver.

You will need some type of grip that you can attach to the barrel to keep from burning your hand.

You can also purchase the 3 rail kits for the sides and top of the upper handguard so you can mount lights, lasers and scopes...

Finally, you will need a dremmel to increase the openings for the barrel (the 12 is much larger then the 7.62x39 the kit was designed for.

Also if you look online you can download the instructions and ak47 forums has a step by step guide also

Attached Files

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Edited by DiveFlyFun, 02 May 2009 - 09:00 PM.


#23 HTFN

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 07:17 PM

I have a store bought century and i love it. My only complaint is that the muzzle blast is alot more severe being that much closer to the barrel. My trigger linkage was rubbing on the barrel so i sanded down the contact spots and it is better. I do agree with the mushy trigger feel.




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