Weird trigger problem

[bmw2 0]

So I took my new to me Saiga .308 to the range for the first time today and it's great but I had an issue after about 3 mags(24 rounds). I pulled the trigger all the way back on a round and the gun did not fire until after I had started to release the trigger. I shot 2 more mags through it and it did this about 4-5 more times but not every time. At that point I put it away. I'll take it down and clean/lube it tomorrow but I have no idea what would cause this or what to look for. This will be my first time disassembling an AK of any kind so any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

[patriot 7,197]

It's missing the sear when you release the trigger. When you release the trigger, the hammer should jump forward, catching on the sear. Either your trigger group is installed wrong or you have a broken/out of spec part.

[Reverendfranz 160]

if you dont see something obvious, post some pictures.

[bmw2 0]

I'll take it apart tonight and take a look. I printed the factory manual and some pics from a few threads on the forum so hopefully I'll figure it out. If I don't find anything wrong that I can identify, I'll post some pics. Does a standard take down expose the trigger group so I can take a look at it or does it need a more detailed disassembly.

Edited September 1, 2008 by bmw2

[Reverendfranz 160]

Just popping off the dust cover and sliding out the bolt gives you a great view of the trigger group, and helps, as you can manualy manipulate the hammer and trigger in place and get a good idea of how the whole thing is working, and hopefully see what isnt catching properly. as you push the hammer back, while holding the trigger, it should go over the spur of the trigger and push the disconnect down, sliding under the hook of the disconnect, locking into place. When you let pressure off the trigger the trigger, it should slide out from under the disconnect and go up to meet the spur of the hammer. play with it a few times and you should get a pretty good idea of what might be happening.

 

GL

[bmw2 0]

Here's a few pics of the trigger group. I pushed the hammer down and pulled the trigger several times and everything felt and looked O.K.. Nothing looks broken or out of alignment to me. Hows it look?

[bmw2 0]

One more.

[Reverendfranz 160]

its hard to see much from here, but it does look as if the back of your hammer is ground down severely. im not sure how that might cause what you are describing, but it is the only thing that jumps out to me.

[bmw2 0]

Would a closer pic help any? I'll try and get a closer shot of the hammer. Any chance someone has a pic of a new/good condition hammer so I can compare? Thanks for the help. Also, maybe the issue isn't that it's firing on the trigger release but something is causing a delay in the movement of the hammer and that I'm just already releasing the trigger when it does fire? Does that make any sense?

[zone1935 5]

Would a closer pic help any? I'll try and get a closer shot of the hammer. Any chance someone has a pic of a new/good condition hammer so I can compare? Thanks for the help. Also, maybe the issue isn't that it's firing on the trigger release but something is causing a delay in the movement of the hammer and that I'm just already releasing the trigger when it does fire? Does that make any sense?

 

The pics look like an unconverted saiga, one possible issue is longer trigger assembly to get the "sport" configuration. There have been a couple of threads on the .308 having a unique trigger feel lin that the trigger moves in an upward arc instead of a standard rocking motion.

[bmw2 0]

The issue isn't that the trigger feels odd, although it certainly isn't a great trigger pull. The issue is that the hammer is either falling with a slight delay or is falling after I've released the trigger slightly. Nothing internally looks broken to me and every time I dry fire it, the hammer moves as it should. I guess I could just convert it and replace the trigger group but frankly I like the stock configuration.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I'm wondering if you may have some bad ammo or something?

If the problem doesn't repeat itself every time, it's most likely nothing mechanical in the FCG. You do have the older style factory .308 trigger (not the new one on the the thumbhole guns) so it will have that creepy upward sweep to it.

 

You can see in the first pic where the disconnect is grabbing the hammer like it should. Both mine are converted now so I can't compare how it looks to either of them. When you say it isn't "firing" until you release the trigger, that almost sounds like the disconnect is out of spec and it's holding the hammer after the rifle cycles a round and is re-cocked. That shouldn't be happening though. In the pic it looks like your disconnect is sitting behind the cocked hammer, although very close to it. The disconnect should release the hammer to the trigger sear, only if you have the trigger squeezed all the way back and are holding it while the action cycles....after which if the trigger is released, the hammer should be caught by the trigger sear.

 

You need to determine if the hammer is actually being retarded by anything after the trigger is sqeezed, or if you are just having a delayed detonation of some of the rounds.

 

Does that make any sense?

 

Make sure it's unloaded and try this......

 

Try cycling the action (UNLOADED) by hand, while holding the trigger squeezed. After you pull the bolt back and release it, your hammer should be held firmly by the disconnect.

Now release the trigger. You should here and feel a "click" as the hammer released to the trigger sear.

Now pull the trigger again and you should hear and feel the hammer fall immediately.

 

If this is all working like it should then my guess is you are having some delay in the actual detonation of some old ammo, and not a delay in the guns FCG works.

[bmw2 0]

Thanks guys. Cobra-I'll give that a try after work tonight and post the results. Thanks again.

[gunnysmith 4]

Is there some foreign material under the trigger?

The hammer hook on yours doesn't appear to fully engage.

 

You can see how far the hammer hook engages the sear of the converted unit.

 

Edited September 8, 2008 by gunnysmith

[skx762 0]

Mine did the same thing before I converted it. It also had the upward swing on the trigger movement. It was like squeezing pliers and wouldn't fire until I released the trigger.

 

It's really too bad they are a very handy rifle as they come from the factory.

 

Of course mine is a lot handier now that it has a folding stock and pistol grip, the trigger pull is better too since it was replaced with a "normal" AK trigger.

[bmw2 0]

The trigger group and everything in there looked pretty clean, didn't see and foreign objects in there and it seems to work fine when it's stripped. Frankly I haven't had time to pull it apart and play with it since I took the picks. If a good cleaning doesn't take care of it I'll just convert it. I'd like to go with a nice thumbhole stock anyway and it just doesn't work with the angle of the stock trigger.