SureFire .410 10 round Magazine - Range Report

[Twinsen 86]

First of all everybody, I'd like to say before you read any further, that these mags worked 100% with 3" American style plastic and brass rounds. Perfect function, loadable on an open or closed bolt, whatever, everything, 100%.

 

The problem is that they don't work with Russian steel cased stuff! Oh noes, the stuff that the saiga was designed for doesn't work! If you have one round in it, or 10, the Russian stuff doesn't sit at the right angle. It sits at much less deep angle, and smashes under the barrel. Who knows if they'll "wear in", but I know they sure as shit don't work the way it is now. I had planned on taking pictures of the rounds that wouldn't feed, but you guys have an imagination... imagine that time your drunk friend started to smash beer cans on his forehead.

 

So if you want to shoot slugs or buckshot out of your Saiga 410 and these SureFire 10 round mags, either buy $1+ a shot American made stuff, or reload. Yeah, that sure does suck, doesn't it? Lets all hope somebody grinds down on the little ramp that the shell rims slide upon to allow them to sit at the right angle and let us all know that that works and solves the problem. That'd make these mags A++, as I never expected them to be so easily loaded on a full chamber.

 

As for loading them on a closed bolt, I cannot load a 10 round AGP magazine into my Saiga-12 on a closed bolt. I've tried probably 20 times to do so, and never even come close. Loading a loaded 10 round SureFire magazine into a Saiga 410 is as easy as loading a full 30 round mag of 7.62 into an AK. It takes nothing, and just locks in. These mags in that perspective are fantastic, and I didn't even know that could be done.

 

C+ rating until someone comes up with a fix for the Russian steel cased issue.

A++ if you don't shoot the Russian ammo out of your .410.

Edited September 5, 2008 by Twinsen

[cellsworth 21]

Thanks for the report Twinsen! That is exactly the kind of information people need when deciding whether or not to get the SureFire .410 magazines.

[Twinsen 86]

Thanks. They're a lot lot better than I expected them to be. If you're not going to shoot Russian steel cased .410, these things will be like GOLD to you.

[Psee 0]

Thanks for the great info Twinson. Bummer about the steel slugs/buckshot (probably a no go on the 2.5" shells as well).

[koertli 0]

Thanks for the great info Twinson. Bummer about the steel slugs/buckshot (probably a no go on the 2.5" shells as well).

 

 

I am having the same issue. I don't have anything but Russian loads.

 

I give it an 'F'

[Twinsen 86]

The instructions say either "don't use" 2.5's or that they "will not function" in the magazine, so I didn't even bother trying.

[Psee 0]

The instructions say either "don't use" 2.5's or that they "will not function" in the magazine, so I didn't even bother trying.

 

Figured it was just a rumor. Thanks for the confirmation.

[Demon5Romeo 0]

Thanks for the range report. I'll have to pick up a few. Sucks about the steel case Russian ammo, but some 10-rnd mags is just what the Saiga .410 needs.

[bigdaddyrandall 1]

Does the 410 surefire 10 round mags only shoot 3" shells

[Twinsen 86]

Yeppers.

[Genocide 0]

Well, fuck.

 

Thanks twinset for the review, now I'm bummed because all I've got is steel hulls in buck and slug.

Maybe I can make a simple tool to open up the slot for the rim, if I can it might help Tony R. with his .444 problem.

[Twinsen 86]

Well, I'm pretty sure you'd only have to work on the very top of the magazine (but not totally sure). You can load 10 of the russian steel rounds into the mag easy enough, but anytime the top round is a steel one, it faces straight ahead and doesn't tip up to feed. So I'm pretty sure you'd only need to remove material at the top and back of the magazine in that little slot for the rims.

 

Good luck, if you try it.

[cellsworth 21]

As expensive as those magazines are, trial-and-error modifications could get expensive! However, if anyone gets it figured out that would be great.

[frick 3]

Thats too bad.

 

I guess my factory mags at 100 each don't seem like such a waste now.

 

But hey, even AGP had issues with the first 10's, perhaps they can get the issues worked out.

 

What I dont understand, is why everybody just doesnt knock off the designs of the originals, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel?

 

Thanks again for TOFTT.

[LJS1306 0]

Hi,

 

Thought a comparison of the factory (Saiga) and new surefire (aft) mags might be useful. The new mags are different and could use some trimming and they might work. but it looks like the aft may have been intended for the shorter 410 round. Not sure but is a bummer.

 

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Thanks for the report Twinsen. I would be willing to find a way to make them feed the Russian steel hulls (if possible) if I had some to work with. Maybe I'll contact Surefire and ask them to send me some. I prefer the Barnauls myself and that's mostly what I shoot since my 410 is the old style that will only fire 3".

 

Sorry to burst your bubble there frick, but I have the factory ten rdrs too, as well as the other Russian tens from Prodiz, including a very rare clear (green tint)one, and I've also had problems with the Barnauls in all of these mags. They feed alright sometimes but can also be finicky with the steel cased ammo. I wouldn't bet my life on them I can tell you that. When I want to shoot the steel cased ammo and be sure there are no FTFs, I used my factory four rd (5rd converted) mags.

[Joe Blasco 1]

Sorry to burst your bubble there frick, but I have the factory ten rdrs too, as well as the other Russian tens from Prodiz, including a very rare clear (green tint)one, and I've also had problems with the Barnauls in all of these mags. They feed alright sometimes but can also be finicky with the steel cased ammo. I wouldn't bet my life on them I can tell you that. When I want to shoot the steel cased ammo and be sure there are no FTFs, I used my factory four rd (5rd converted) mags.

 

Strange I'm using the 10 rnd Izmash mags and I never had any problem with Barnaul. One thing is that I'm shooting slugs maybe you are shooting shot? One problem that I do have though is that after a couple hundred shots I get the bolt stucked in the forward position and I have to hit with a mallet to set it free. I never understood why I can only think that metal is expanding due to elevated temperature don't know. I thought that I had an oversized gas piston body but then same happened with my other .410 too.

Joe

[G O B 3,516]

The wife shoots mixed Barnul/bear buck and slugs from her 10 rd Russian mags flawlessly. She has the old style 3" only S-.410.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Yeah we have talked about that before GOB. For some reason mine likes to jam on the first couple of shots, then it runs great. Maybe the mags just need more breaking in. I did get them to work better by coloring the follower sides with #2 pencil, and even sprayed the inside of the bodies with Armorall. That did help. I got my S-12 not long after I got those mags, and after that I didn't shoot the 410 as much. It was having the same probs with slugs and shot. I could load them up with US made plastic hulls though and never had a problem. I always figured it was the longer steel shells being just far enough off that they get caught in the "hood" or upper feed guide part of the chamber. When it happens they get bent all to shit and it's hard to even use some of them without hand feeding them. It's done the same thing sometimes when it's really dirty, using the 4rd mags. In fact that's why I originally found these awesome weapons because this guy I knew sold it to me for $50 because it wouldn't feed those shells he got with it when he bought it.

[frick 3]

I have never had problems with the 4's, with the exception of one whose follower got a bit too short DOH!

 

And again, no problems with factory 10's either, I have seen pics of the greenies, neat. All of mine are solid black, no see through ports, and I thought I had read there were some differences, and or different factories making the different types of russian mags, IE, the see throughs were a Type 2 or something like that.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't consider the 410 for self defense as first choice, just not enough lead coming out the front, mine is more of a novelty than a dedicated first responder.

 

I DO think that they would make a hell of a deer slayer, if you are unlucky enough to live where rifles aren't allowed for hunting.

[MAAnew 162]

Surefire did not set these up for use with steel cased rounds. I am going send Cobra some to see if he can find a way to modify them to feed with steel rounds.

 

 

Hi,

 

Thought a comparison of the factory (Saiga) and new surefire (aft) mags might be useful. The new mags are different and could use some trimming and they might work. but it looks like the aft may have been intended for the shorter 410 round. Not sure but is a bummer.

 

Edited September 18, 2008 by Mississippi Auto Arms

[Twinsen 86]

Awesome, Nate. That would make these things off the fantastic gun parts chart. As it stands, the only thing holding them back from being great is American ammunition manufacturers demanding three times the price for .410 ammo than for 12 gauge ammo which has three times as much materials. That's ... 9 times stupidity.

[ampell 0]

Got 2 surefire 10 rounders with my new saiga .410. Of course was bummed right off the bat that 2.5 inchers do not feed at all with these mags, as they jam up there with out feeding. Dammit So I single loaded a few #9's (just bought a whole box of these for clays !%#@!) and some Remington sluggers (2.5" also). Thankfully i had some 3" winchester loads on hand so i could pop a couple off. So once I get the right ammo on hand maybe i'll be ready to go. I'm thinking the 5 pel 000 buck should operate smoothly in the surefires as well as some Brenneke's. Anyone reloading +P slugs for these? I would imagine the internals on the Saiga are pretty damn durable.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I'm making some headway with the mags and have them feeding the steel hulls for the last 6 or 7 out of ten rounds (so far). I've also got some some Brennekes to test them with (slugs). Will let y'all know how it goes...

[Twinsen 86]

I'm making some headway with the mags and have them feeding the steel hulls for the last 6 or 7 out of ten rounds (so far). I've also got some some Brennekes to test them with (slugs). Will let y'all know how it goes...

 

I as well got some steel cased to load sometimes, as long as the mag wasn't loaded all the way. However, 40% isn't good enough. Good luck on the continuing effort.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Hmm... It occurs to me that if the Surefire mag body is similar enough to the factory design, a factory follower/feed lips might be modified to replace the Surefire parts. *If* that worked, it seems like it should feed the Russian steel shells beautifully.

 

I just stocked up on the Russian stuff, and I'm very glad you posted this review! Stopped me from buying a Surefire mag that would have been useless to me.

 

As for inserting a 10-round AGP mag on a closed bolt in your 12, it can be done. It's a bitch, and sometimes the feed lips will pop off and dump your ammo all over the ground, but it is possible. I stored mine with a loaded mag for a little while, but it just deforms the top shell badly enough so that you can't chamber it.

 

Anyone have any knowledge to share about the forthcoming 20-round magazines for the .410?

Edited October 11, 2008 by Shandlanos

[clay1003 0]

I also bought two Surefire 10 rounders... bummer... and waited so long to get them!

If anyone comes up with a way to modify/make them work with the Barnauls please let me know (stefano10003@verizon.net).

In the meantime I wrote a complaint letter to Mississippi Arms concerning such, and asked if Surefire was considering a modification for us Steel hullers.

Thanks,

Claypij.