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California-compliant Saiga-12


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So is the magazine locked into place ? If so than what is the point of having a saiga?

 

 

You just have to use a bullet tip, screw driver or something that will fit into that hole and pull on the release lever. California law will not allow for a quick detachable magazine AND a pistol grip. This way the magazine is no longer considered quick detach (even though it only takes seconds more to detach) and is 100% complliant to California law.

 

thanks,

Ron

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I applaud your efforts, but, could you scan and post the letter from the Kali DOJ that states this is kosher????

 

I dont know were the exact list is but heres how it goes:

semi automatic shotguns are considered AW's if they have:

one of the folowing

-detachable magazine

-rotary magazine/cylinder (ie street sweeper type guns)

or two of the folowing

pistol grip

folding/collapsable stock

forward pistol grip

 

This shotgun has neither, there for its legal. The magazine has to be removed by a "tool" so its not considered detachable by the CA-DOJ. It has a p-grip but no other features so its kosher.

Edited by k-101
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No, I agree, more people thinking about how to screw the antis is a good thing, but every day, they come up with more fodder to use against us.

 

I am playing the devils advocate, but, from what I can see, the original lever to remove the mag has only been covered, not removed, and/or deactivated.

 

I would think that the mag would have to be permanently affixed in place, like the AR's that you must open the upper to load with a stripper clip, otherwise, why not just remove the release button from your AR lower, or just weld a cover over it, with a hole that only a screwdriver can depress to drop the mag out.

 

I think they key would be that the mag, no matter how much you dance about it, is STILL removable from the weapon.

 

I wasn't kidding about a DOJ letter showing approval, who wants to be the test case on whether this passes their laws or not?

 

Frankly, Kali can go "F" themselves, I am an FFL, and I will no longer ship guns there, because now I have to do paperwork online, in THEIR jurisdiction, potentially putting myself at legal jeopardy if I screw up, knowingly or not.

 

If the idea was to make this a commercial venture, I would damn well consult a lawyer, before I put ads up selling conversions of the Saiga in Kali.

 

If its for personal use, well, thats a choice the person converting it has to make, who am I to advise them on whether or not to walk on untested ice.

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California law will not allow for a quick detachable magazine AND a pistol grip.

 

Your saiga has a pistol grip, so its not compliant?

 

No, the mags aren't "quick detachable magazines". You have to use a "tool" to remove them.

I understand the point about the mags not being quick detachable, I was pointing out the pistol grip portion of the comment! If it has a pistol grip, is that Calf. compliant?

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Hey, us californians like to have our toys too... unfortunately our gun laws are convoluted by a bunch of fantasy and bullshit. Trust me, we agree with them about as much as people from free states.

 

Anyway, for those of you who are interested... check this site out:

 

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php

I go there when I want to feel good about the laws in my state. I feel for you guys. I go there and read and just shake my head.

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Hey, us californians like to have our toys too... unfortunately our gun laws are convoluted by a bunch of fantasy and bullshit. Trust me, we agree with them about as much as people from free states.

 

Anyway, for those of you who are interested... check this site out:

 

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php

I go there when I want to feel good about the laws in my state. I feel for you guys. I go there and read and just shake my head.

 

Bobotech-

 

No doubt about it sucks, but we try to make the best of it.

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I am playing the devils advocate, but, from what I can see, the original lever to remove the mag has only been covered, not removed, and/or deactivated.

 

I would think that the mag would have to be permanently affixed in place, like the AR's that you must open the upper to load with a stripper clip, otherwise, why not just remove the release button from your AR lower, or just weld a cover over it, with a hole that only a screwdriver can depress to drop the mag out.

 

I think they key would be that the mag, no matter how much you dance about it, is STILL removable from the weapon.

 

Frankly, Kali can go "F" themselves, I am an FFL, and I will no longer ship guns there, because now I have to do paperwork online, in THEIR jurisdiction, potentially putting myself at legal jeopardy if I screw up, knowingly or not.

 

If its for personal use, well, thats a choice the person converting it has to make, who am I to advise them on whether or not to walk on untested ice.

 

Hi Frick,

 

I don't have the link (but it's on Calguns.net) but the law is very specific. The law states that if a magazine can be removed without the use of a tool, then the firearm has a quick detachable magazine. The question has been posed and the AG responded (again, all this is posted on Calguns) that a bullet is considered a "tool" because without it, it is impossible to remove the magazine. The "old days" of having to open your AR15 receiver to load roads has come and gone. There are various "bullet blocks" and "mag locks" on the market. These devices keep the rifles within the letter of the law.

 

The law states NOTHING about permamently modifying the weapon or deactivating it. Just like a high capacity magazines are not allowed to be sold to residents of California, we sell replacement parts kits to California residents. The magazine is dissassembled and that now becomes legal for California residents. I make customers aware on our website that if they are going to purchase a replacement parts kit, they must currently own a high capacity magazine.

 

California law does not have the "constructive possesion" like Federal law. Just because a resident of California has a complete set of parts to "manufacture" a high-cap magazine, until it's assembled into a magazine it is 100% legal.

 

thanks,

Ron

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As I read it, the SAIGA is banned by name, not by features, and I would not press my luck. Joe LEO, upon finding an S12 and consulting the banned list, "SAIGA" is right up there near the top. While it could be argued that "Hunter rifle/Saiga" can only be applied to the rifle versions, I wouldn't recommend being that guinea pig.

 

 

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf

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As I read it, the SAIGA is banned by name, not by features, and I would not press my luck. Joe LEO, upon finding an S12 and consulting the banned list, "SAIGA" is right up there near the top. While it could be argued that "Hunter rifle/Saiga" can only be applied to the rifle versions, I wouldn't recommend being that guinea pig.

 

 

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf

 

Please re-read the list. It says "Kalashnikov USA." For a weapon to be banned it has to be the exact same Manufacture/Importer AND Model. New Saigas are imported by "Russian American Arms". See the difference? It is the same reason why Saiga 308 and 223 are now plentiful in CA.

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As I read it, the SAIGA is banned by name, not by features, and I would not press my luck. Joe LEO, upon finding an S12 and consulting the banned list, "SAIGA" is right up there near the top. While it could be argued that "Hunter rifle/Saiga" can only be applied to the rifle versions, I wouldn't recommend being that guinea pig.

 

 

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf

 

First off you are not up to date with Cali. laws. If I didn't live here I wouldn't care either. CA DOJ tried to pull a series ban. We sued they lost now all weapons have to be named by make and model. The Hunter rifle/Saiga you refer to was imported by Kalashnikov USA not RAA. Now a pistol grip is 100% legal when a tool is needed to remove said mag. You want to drop your mag, now you go with a monster man grip. Every thing functions the same, it just takes an extra step. Now if Joe LEO is not up to speed with the laws he is supposed to enforce. Well that sounds like a civil rights violation and imcompetance of the laws on the part of the LEO.

 

I can understand if a FFL doesn't want to wait an extra 1-2 mins for a C.F.L.C. to print out but it's not my ass. But by refusing to sell perfectly legal firearms to lawful citizens,you are not helping the 2nd amendment fight. You are also throwing money away. I called a vendor and asked why he wouldn't ship semi autos to CA. He started reading the regs. CA DOJ had just sent him, they were wrong,flat fucking wrong. CA DOJ left out all of the latest revisions. That series shit DOJ tried to pull is illegal, but this guy was reciting a law that no longer exists. And he said that is the latest info DOJ sent him.

 

Please understand that NO LEGAL CALI. GUN OWNER WANTS ANY FFL TO LOSE THEIR LICENSE!!! But this is a fight for our rights and yours. I want to buy a ROMAK 3 PSL. 100% legal to ship and to own. How....take the stock off, and when we get it. Fill the void in the stock or install a mag lock. This is the flow chart that we configure our rifles to.undefined

Edited by SJgunguy24
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