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Unhappy with delays at E-Tac.


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There are a few things that I just don't understand, concerning all this.

 

1. Why do people continue to send these guys business? I've heard way too many accounts of people getting strung along.

 

2. Why is the turn around time at E-Tac so incredibly long? I think they just moved to a new facility, but that's been a while. What could be taking so long? They seem to have enough time to post information about new products they've developed...

 

3. Why do they have such an issue communicating with people (OR are the people that complain constantly bothering them, leading them to brush them off). Either way, they're getting taken for a ride.

 

+1 dude....I have no fucking clue why people would send them anything

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There are a few things that I just don't understand, concerning all this.

 

1. Why do people continue to send these guys business? I've heard way too many accounts of people getting strung along.

 

2. Why is the turn around time at E-Tac so incredibly long? I think they just moved to a new facility, but that's been a while. What could be taking so long? They seem to have enough time to post information about new products they've developed...

 

3. Why do they have such an issue communicating with people (OR are the people that complain constantly bothering them, leading them to brush them off). Either way, they're getting taken for a ride.

 

+1 dude....I have no fucking clue why people would send them anything

Not to argue or contradict any of the points that elvis christ stated, but speaking as one of the people that has sent GoGun a Saiga firearm to have converted, I can respond succinctly as to why I did so: Because IMHO absolutely no one; no other gunsmith that I am aware of (which may not be saying much; I have only had dealings with but a few) produces as stellar and refined a product as Esteban. Bar none.

 

But as I just stated, that's simply my opinion. I went into my deal with GoGun and Esteban with a degree of knowledge and understanding of past forum members' delivery schedule issues, etc., knowing that a degree of risk was involved, specifically pertaining to when I might receive my converted Saiga rifle.

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. . . I've already paid upfront. I've requested a refund and still no response. I'm very close to contacting the Better Business Bureau and my attorney. - Chase

Well. . . if you decide to pursue that route, it would be interesting to learn how that ultimately works out for you.

 

As for me personally, I'm in the small camp of folks that have essentially subsribed to the notion that, "it takes as long as it takes."

 

:rolleyes:

 

That still does not excuse the broken promises (lies), lack of return e-mails and phone calls. I have my own business too. Zero communication means a poorly run business or a scam. I've been ripped off before; and they're more likely to get away with it the longer I wait. Frankly, if E-tac goes under, I bet most people would ask, why'd you wait for so long? C'mon!!! It does not take over a year to convert a gun! You don't promise 6 months then stop returning e-mails and phone calls! To be honest, I would have waited 1.5 years if they could just communicate. And maybe you're right, Gary. "It takes as long as it takes... to lose your money." $2065 is a lot of money to be tied up... And I paid for the interest. LOOK AT HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT E-TAC!!! I gave Esteban and Craig every chance I could. I have been forgiving and patient. But more than anything, it only takes a few minutes to refund my money. I know some people have loyalty to him; and I did too for a long time. But their business practices are dishonest. Keeping customers' money for over a year (and continuing to keep it after requests for a refund) and keeping customers in the dark is dishonest.

 

Chase, obviously I have no answers for you that would even remotely diffuse or lessen your anguish and frustration. Clearly there is only one person breathing, that can appropriately address each and every statement and question that you have. . . and that is Esteban himself. Yet even if he were to do so, for you (based on this track record you've conveyed), anything he might state would be received with great skepticism at best. Oh by the way, Craig no longer works at E-Tac CNC GoGun, and to my understanding pretty-much the entire working crew (however small that it was) was let go. Reportedly, this all occurred approximately a month or so ago. . . and Esteban even said his "goodbyes" to his business partner.

 

But if true, what does all that mean? It doesn't mean squat; a commitment/obligation/contract was made, money was forwarded in good faith. . . and the rest, some friggen attorney or whomever would need to articulate or state it better than I ever could.

 

FWIW (and it's really not worth anything), don't believe those of us that have read this thread have not picked up on the fact that you've been a member here since 2008, yet the above post was only your third (3rd). Your credibility has not been established here. As stupid as that may be received, it doesn't make it any less a fact. Just something to consider as you rage on.

 

Respectfully,

 

~Gary

 

Hi Gary,

 

Thanks for your reply. I know one other has also pointed out that I have not posted a lot. Sorry, I can't help that. It's cool to talk about Saiga 12s, upgrading, B.S.ing, and sharing information. But frankly, I don't feel the need to do it frequently when I DON'T EVEN OWN ONE. Where's the credibility in someone who talks about something they don't have? I hope you guys can understand my sentiments. I don't feel motivated to talk about something where I spent $2065 on something I don't even have. Let alone to a gunsmith who won't deliver and won't respond to me. Honestly, I purposely held off posting anything in order to not tarnish Esteban's reputation. He was very nice over the phone (when I made the order) and I made up every excuse FOR him to keep from posting anything bad. If this happened to you, wouldn't this be on your mind all the time? Everytime I thought about a Saiga 12, I thought, "I don't have one because my gunsmith is not done with it." Now I think, "Am I being scammed?" I really wouldn't have much to contribute to these forums because the extent that I know about Saiga 12s is that I don't have one, and I may never get one.

 

I've been on other forums and I've seen many idiots make hundreds of posts and their credibility only went down. For what it's worth, I've participated in IDPA as a shooter as well as a certified IDPA safety officer. I am also a certified NRA instructor for Pistol and Rifle. I've worked as an armed security officer and all my training was done by police academy officers. I've also taken tactical shooting private lessons with P.O.S.T. instructors. I go shooting frequently with friends and family, I carry concealed everyday (except at work), and I am a lifetime member of the NRA. I exercise my rights and I have written to my governor concerning frivolous gun control bills. My full time job is being a middle school teacher and I have a great reputation among my colleagues in the State of Washington. I've taught since 1997. I'm an active member of my church and I also have my own photography business.

 

I see myself as a patient guy. I let 6 months go by before I tried to contact Esteban. No response. I tried a few weeks later. No response. A few weeks later, I send a letter saying that I would like a refund. He finally responds by saying he'll check with Craig. I get no follow-up. A few months later, I threaten for a request for a refund. In the first week of October, he finally responds by saying he'll be done at the end of October (This is 9 months after the order). October passes by and still no shotgun. The beginning of October was last time I heard from him. About 3 weeks ago, an intruder breaks into my house and sees my wife is asleep and alone. Luckily, he just left (with my paintball gun). I leave a message for Esteban saying that it would be nice to have a shotgun about now. Still no response. I finally asked for a refund about two weeks ago. No response. I leave another request for a refund by e-mail and phone a few days ago. No response.

 

All of my e-mails/calls were at least 5 days or more apart. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't hassling him. My communication to him was usually weeks apart. I'm very easy to forgive. All I need is a shotgun, a refund, or at least an ETA that completion is only a weeks away for that to happen. None of the three have. If he was really working on my gun, he would have finished 6 months ago. I would speculate that he never even started on my gun six months into the order date. Otherwise, why would he still be taking orders on his website? As far as I'm concerned, his "Kick Ass" guns are non-existent. I can make better looking guns using Photoshop. And my pictures would be just as useful as his pictures. Because they don't do me any good on a website. If I had one in my hands, that would be a different story. I have no money to go and buy a stock Saiga 12 because Esteban has my money. It's frustrating to see Saigas sell like hotcakes at my local gun shop and see them hanging on the wall. All I can do is have mixed feelings about broken promises, envy the purchasers at the store, and wonder if I got ripped off.

 

Chase

Edited by trichaser
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Hi Gary,

 

Thanks for your reply. I know one other has also pointed out that I have not posted a lot. Sorry, I can't help that. It's cool to talk about Saiga 12s, upgrading, B.S.ing, and sharing information. But frankly, I don't feel the need to do it frequently when I DON'T EVEN OWN ONE. Where's the credibility in someone who talks about something they don't have? I hope you guys can understand my sentiments. I don't feel motivated to talk about something where I spent $2065 on something I don't even have. Let alone to a gunsmith who won't deliver and won't respond to me. Honestly, I purposely held off posting anything in order to not tarnish Esteban's reputation. He was very nice over the phone (when I made the order) and I made up every excuse FOR him to keep from posting anything bad. If this happened to you, wouldn't this be on your mind all the time? Everytime I thought about a Saiga 12, I thought, "I don't have one because my gunsmith is not done with it." Now I think, "Am I being scammed?" I really wouldn't have much to contribute to these forums because the extent that I know about Saiga 12s is that I don't have one, and I may never get one.

 

I've been on other forums and I've seen many idiots make hundreds of posts and their credibility only went down. For what it's worth, I've participated in IDPA as a shooter as well as a certified IDPA safety officer. I am also a certified NRA instructor for Pistol and Rifle. I've worked as an armed security officer and all my training was done by police academy officers. I've also taken tactical shooting private lessons with P.O.S.T. instructors. I go shooting frequently with friends and family, I carry concealed everyday (except at work), and I am a lifetime member of the NRA. I exercise my rights and I have written to my governor concerning frivolous gun control bills. My full time job is being a middle school teacher and I have a great reputation among my colleagues in the State of Washington. I've taught since 1997. I'm an active member of my church and I also have my own photography business.

 

I see myself as a patient guy. I let 6 months go by before I tried to contact Esteban. No response. I tried a few weeks later. No response. A few weeks later, I send a letter saying that I would like a refund. He finally responds by saying he'll check with Craig. I get no follow-up. A few months later, I threaten for a request for a refund. In the first week of October, he finally responds by saying he'll be done at the end of October (This is 9 months after the order). October passes by and still no shotgun. The beginning of October was last time I heard from him. About 3 weeks ago, an intruder breaks into my house and sees my wife is asleep and alone. Luckily, he just left (with my paintball gun). I leave a message for Esteban saying that it would be nice to have a shotgun about now. Still no response. I finally asked for a refund about two weeks ago. No response. I leave another request for a refund by e-mail and phone a few days ago. No response.

 

All of my e-mails/calls were at least 5 days or more apart. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't hassling him. My communication to him was usually weeks apart. I'm very easy to forgive. All I need is a shotgun, a refund, or at least an ETA that completion is only a weeks away for that to happen. None of the three have. If he was really working on my gun, he would have finished 6 months ago. I would speculate that he never even started on my gun six months into the order date. Otherwise, why would he still be taking orders on his website? As far as I'm concerned, his "Kick Ass" guns are non-existent. I can make better looking guns using Photoshop. And my pictures would be just as useful as his pictures. Because they don't do me any good on a website. If I had one in my hands, that would be a different story. I have no money to go and buy a stock Saiga 12 because Esteban has my money. It's frustrating to see Saigas sell like hotcakes at my local gun shop and see them hanging on the wall. All I can do is have mixed feelings about broken promises, envy the purchasers at the store, and wonder if I got ripped off.

 

Chase

Greetings to you as well Chase. A fellow Washingtonian no less!!!

 

Reading your experiences mentioned above. . . I am genuinely at a loss for words. Indesputably you have much, much more experience and involvement with firearms training than I might ever hope to have. Okay, please accept my apology for my "credibility" remark. Clearly I could not have been more wrong.

 

I'd like to be able to convey that I feel your anguish and pain. . . but that would be a lie; I have not (yet) had such an experience (regarding your history with E-Tac CNC and Esteban). Sheesh. . . you said it all, and did so with exceptional clarity and conviction. As I said, I'm at a loss for words as to how to reply.

 

Alas, and I hate to write this again, but as I mentioned in my first post in this thread, ". . .if you decide to pursue that route (legal action), it would be interesting to learn how that ultimately works out for you." I wasn't being a smartass when I wrote that.

 

The few times that I have spoken with Esteban, the conversations have gone well and they ended for me with a feeling of satisfaction. Yet in spite of a guy's demeanor on the telephone. . . . unquestionably, short of illness or personal catastrophy, if a guy says he is going to deliver on something and most specifically if money has passed hands, then the deal is struck. But you know that as does most everyone else here on the forum.

 

Chase, there is really nothing else that I can even remotely fathom to state, that would not be pure speculation.

 

~Gary

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Edited by Gary
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It's frustrating to see Saigas sell like hotcakes at my local gun shop and see them hanging on the wall. All I can do is have mixed feelings about broken promises, envy the purchasers at the store, and wonder if I got ripped off.

 

It took me a little longer than I had expected to get my Saiga-12 from E-Tac as well, and I didn't have to wait as long as you have, but I purchased mine as a "finished" product off Gunbroker.com. That said, you have A LOT more $ tied up than I did, and initially I thought that I too might be getting "scammed", so much so that I actually checked with my credit card company to ensure that the charges that went through were all on the "up and up". My auction ended on Christmas Eve, which is the night Esteban called and got my CC info. So, with the Holidays and all, I had no problem giving him the benefit of the doubt concerning the delays. His communication was sporadic, but he DID always RE:. My point is that these people you mentioned above walking into a gun shop and walking out with a Saiga-12 are getting NO WHERE NEAR the level of product I have no doubt you will eventually receive. My shotgun came in two days ago, and I amazed at the level of quality and TIME that went into it's construction. Anyhow, I don't think your situation will disintegrate into a legal issue, at least I hope not for the sake of both parties. I guess I'm really only posting so that you may take some "comfort" in the fact that I went through a somewhat similar situation...but it was well worth the wait! As far as the intruder in your home, I'm glad that the worst thing that happened was you lost a paintball gun! (not to diminish what I'm sure was a traumatic experience for your wife.) I hope that your on order Saiga is not your only means of defense! Oh, and Estaban did send me two free items, a free magnum puck and a kick ass Mini-Talon Muzzle-Break (w/ Lava shield) free of charge.

 

Good luck...I hope your shottie arrives sooner than later.

 

AGAIN...I KNOW I didn't wait NEARLY as Long as you did, hope this doesn't somehow come off the wrong way.

Edited by dirt013
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