Jump to content

POLL Doublestack mags versus drums--options and cost


Doublestack mags versus drums  

799 members have voted

  1. 1. Which would you like to see most?

    • DS 16 round mag the length of a SS 10
      326
    • DS 12 round mag the length of a SS 8
      290
    • DS 8 round mag the one inch longer than a SS 5
      68
    • 10 round drum same or shorter than SS 5
      49
    • 12 round drum same or slightly longer than SS 5
      68
  2. 2. What would be your second pick?

    • DS 16 round mag the length of a SS 10
      167
    • DS 12 round mag the length of a SS 8
      284
    • DS 8 round mag the one inch longer than a SS 5
      143
    • 10 round drum same or shorter than SS 5
      69
    • 12 round drum same or slightly longer than SS 5
      138


Recommended Posts

Synthetic mags are superior to metal in most (if not all) regards. Corrosion resistant, no need for lubrication, don't dent, light weight... the only thing a metal mag has over a synthetic is perceived durability/reliability. Heavyweight steel mags are indeed durable (think M1A) but they weigh a ton.

 

Steel mags still dominate in pistols because the overall thickness (which is important when you have to fit it in a grip) is an important consideration. In rifles and shotguns, the trend is toward synthetics, and for very good reason.

Edited by stiletto raggio
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 188
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

It got bumped because the poll is still open and some jagoff felt they needed to participate in the old poll.

You know all drum possibility where not mentioned in this poll! How many votes would this thing get?

Hmm... I think if it held too many rounds, I could have lower back problems.

I'd rather a dented metal mag that I can fix with a flat head screw driver in ten seconds then a cracked plastic mag that is usless, not to mention I've never seen a metal mag broken out of a gun. Load up an AGP mag, shove it in the gun then drop it facing down and see what happens. I can live with rust. It's an AK, it'll eat it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd rather a dented metal mag that I can fix with a flat head screw driver in ten seconds then a cracked plastic mag that is usless, not to mention I've never seen a metal mag broken out of a gun. Load up an AGP mag, shove it in the gun then drop it facing down and see what happens. I can live with rust. It's an AK, it'll eat it.

 

Never see a metal mag break out of a gun? Not very experienced with an AR-15, are we? :angel:

 

Already tried the drop test with an AGP mag. Nothing happens, you just pick up the gun and start using it again.

 

Also, if you think metal mags are superior, you need to see this:

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I voted for the double stack 12 rounder. Pretty much for the same reasons as others have stated. Seems like the best balance of capacity to length.

 

However, the magazine I REALLY would like to see made isn't on the list, and it's kind of in the opposite direction. I think a two round magazine would be a big hit for those who want to hunt with their Saiga. Being able to carry two extra reloads in the same space as a blocked five rounder would be nice. If the price could be kept around $20 it would be even nicer.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

as cool as a double stack mag sounds, don't you think it would be overly wide, square and bulky? imagine a tac vest with 6 of those beasts?

 

oh and -1 on the booby drum. as much as I like the real things, I don't want them on my guns. then again if you have them painted realistically, it could act as a less-lethal diversionary tactic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Six of them would be a but bulky, but not four. 4x12 round magazines=6x8 round magazines. Same length, less reloads, and still easier to ahndle than a big drum.

 

I do like the 8 round in a 5 round length idea as well, but I would only buy one or two of those and spend the money on additional DS12 mags. Unfortunately, nobody who can make these things seems to be willing to bite. ProMag, AGP, Surefire... where are you?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

I'd definitely say any sort of doublestack. All the way 100% for a 16rnd as long as the agp 10's. I don't do a lot of running around with my gun however... But I'd much rather be carrying my ammo in magazines than drums. It seems like it would be more convenient to carry a 16rnd mag than 20rnd drum... and easier to make mag changes. I can see the argument for small, lightweight setups though. I'd personally just assume use a stick mag as a drum that only holds 10 rounds. Hell.. I'd even say.. go for a 20rnd DS mag the length of the new 12rounders!

Link to post
Share on other sites
I would like to see a compact 10rd drum, and/or an 8-10 rd DS. The factory 5 rd is great, the 10 rd is great, and the MD20 is great. But something that carries a good load, in a compact package would be perfect to use after the Zombies have absorbed all the ammo from the MD, and you gotta RUN!

 

I do have Saiga 12 but writeing to you to say SS236, SS399, SS421, SS424, SSBN 610 Russ TM

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's always room in the free market for competition, per drums the competitors to MD have come up short and met fairly negative reviews by the community. If you can make a product which meets or beats the quality of product out there, by all means do it... but if you're going to make another over priced POS, don't bother wasting your time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

A question:

 

If the main problem with a 12 ga double stack mag is the fact that the shells have a flange on the base of the brass, making a reliable feeding mag double stack design impractical; is there a reason other than tradition that there aren't any shotguns that fire non-flanged ammo, like rifle and pistol ammo?

 

Looks like it would be relatively simple to make double stack mags for something like that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
A question:

is there a reason other than tradition that there aren't any shotguns that fire non-flanged ammo, like rifle and pistol ammo?

 

Its not really tradition but more of a simple way of dealing with the mechanics of a shotshell, the real reason is headspace. Most pistols today headspace on the mouth of the case and rifles headspace on the case's shoulder. Shotshells headspace on the rim because they must unfold at the mouth when fired and therefore the over all length of the shell increases.

 

This is why you should never try shooting a 3" shotshell in a 2.75" only chambered shotgun even though the 3" shell might fit, the folded part of the shell would unfold into the barrel (smaller diameter then the chamber), the shot/buck/slug and wad would be compressed through the partially opened shotshell and cause dangerously high chamber pressure that could result in a kB!

 

Your unfired 3" and 2.75" shells don't measure out to be 3" and 2.75", an unfired 3" shell may actually be 2.5" and the 2.75" shell may measure 2.25" but a fired 3" or 2.75" shell should measure out to be somewhere around 3" or 2.75" respectively, a 3" chamber is cut to 3" to allow the 2.5" 3" shell to safely unfold without obstructing the bore.

 

It might be possible to make rimless 12ga shotshells from cut down .505 Gibbs brass or something (10ga from 50BMG brass?) that would headspace on the mouth, and your 3" shells would actually be 3" long. Keep in mind though that your brass and gun would be wildcats, no factory ammo available, brass would be expensive (both to make yourself or to have custom made), you would have to work up your own reloads with zero data to start from and your gun would only be able to shoot shells that were the same length as your chamber, again because of headspace (3" chamber = 3" shells only, 2.75" chamber = 2.75" shells only).

 

BTW, double stack magazines for rimmed cartridges invite nothing but major rim-lock issues, so I would have to vote for single stacks up to 8 rounds and drums for any capacity above 8 (a drum mag in this case is essentially just a long single stack mag that has been bent sideways into a circle)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...

fawk the low cap shit. Gimme the DS 16 rounders!!!!!!! :smoke: Man that'd be sweet. I'm not to concerned about side-to-side bulk (still way narrower than a drum right?)...but I would like to have a boat load of rounds before I had to change mags. The worlds fastest 'mag change' is not needing to do one at all. :)

Edited by jekbrown
Link to post
Share on other sites

A magwell compatible doublestack in any size bigger than 8 appeals. My understanding is that rims make that too tricky to be a reality.

 

For something that really could exist in the near future, why not a 20 round drum by md that lets you use the full capablilties of an s12?

I mean an MD20Magnum which could 3" magnums, or the short stuff? That seems like something that he could make and to me it is hard to justify a $200+ magazine that won't let me shoot the full size stuff.

 

One of the primary appeals of my gun is that I don't have to decide between power and shot count. I can affordably hold 5 8 or 12 of the 2 3/4" or 3" of the round of my choice. Tube fed guns have to use short shells to fit many in. My stick mags don't care.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Synthetic mags are superior to metal in most (if not all) regards. Corrosion resistant, no need for lubrication, don't dent, light weight... the only thing a metal mag has over a synthetic is perceived durability/reliability. Heavyweight steel mags are indeed durable (think M1A) but they weigh a ton.

 

Steel mags still dominate in pistols because the overall thickness (which is important when you have to fit it in a grip) is an important consideration. In rifles and shotguns, the trend is toward synthetics, and for very good reason.

 

You really don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. You don't have to be an engineer to know that steel has much greater strength (yield, tensile and compressive) than any injection molded polymer. In guns like ARs where the stress is distributed over a relatively large area by the mag well, the lower yield strength of plastic mags is not a major problem.

 

With the AK design however, the stress is highly concentrated around the 2 locking lugs. The front lug is especially vulnerable because it is smaller. That is why you see the Surefire 12 round mags breaking at the front lug with 3" shells, why Tapco AK-47 mags will shear off the front lug when dropped on the butt stock. Notice military spec AK mags that are polymer(bakelites, Bulgarians, etc..) use metal inserts for their lugs . Polymer does have many advantages as you listed, but they also have drawbacks and depending on the design, an all polymer mag may or may not make for a well designed mag.

Edited by AK-308
Link to post
Share on other sites
Synthetic mags are superior to metal in most (if not all) regards. Corrosion resistant, no need for lubrication, don't dent, light weight... the only thing a metal mag has over a synthetic is perceived durability/reliability. Heavyweight steel mags are indeed durable (think M1A) but they weigh a ton.

 

Steel mags still dominate in pistols because the overall thickness (which is important when you have to fit it in a grip) is an important consideration. In rifles and shotguns, the trend is toward synthetics, and for very good reason.

 

You really don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. You don't have to be an engineer to know that steel has much greater strength (yield, tensile and compressive) than any injection molded polymer. In guns like ARs where the stress is distributed over a relatively large area by the mag well, the lower yield strength of plastic mags is not a major problem.

 

With the AK design however, the stress is highly concentrated around the 2 locking lugs. The front lug is especially vulnerable because it is smaller. That is why you see the Surefire 12 round mags breaking at the front lug with 3" shells, why Tapco AK-47 mags will shear off the front lug when dropped on the butt stock. Notice military spec AK mags that are polymer(bakelites, Bulgarians, etc..) use metal inserts for their lugs . Polymer does have many advantages as you listed, but they also have drawbacks and depending on the design, an all polymer mag may or may not make for a well designed mag.

 

Steel is a definite advantage in feed lips and lugs, which is why they are included in the best synthetic mag designs. Think Bulgarian waffle mags. Synthetics are better for mag bodies. I don't see how anything you said contradicts anything I actually said, and I don't see how that means I "really don't have a clue as to what (I am) talking about."

Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh I guess I'm cool with DS mags but whatever it is it MUST fit into my existing mag pouches... I run a Weesatch with plates so I kinda need something that's around the size of two AR mags. I guess that'd have to be the mag thats the DS 8 rounder.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...