my762buzz 141 Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 I am really interested to know why they will not supply something that is well sought after among the Saiga 12 community? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 Import restrictions.......The Saiga is only allowed to come in country because it is a "Sporting weapon" . It is really hard to put the whole importation of the entire family of guns at risk for a single non-sporting mag. I don't like it either, but when dealing with the feds, you play by the rule of the day. And yes RAAC would damn sure like to sell factory 8 rd mags, just as much as we would like to buy them.....VK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 Import restrictions.......The Saiga is only allowed to come in country because it is a "Sporting weapon" . It is really hard to put the whole importation of the entire family of guns at risk for a single non-sporting mag. I don't like it either, but when dealing with the feds, you play by the rule of the day. And yes RAAC would damn sure like to sell factory 8 rd mags, just as much as we would like to buy them.....VK. You would think if they are sold separate like through Saigastock then maybe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 You would think if they are sold separate like through Saigastock then maybe. Like VK said, if you can't import them, you can't sell 'em either. Whether or not they come with the firearm is irrelevant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zakmatthews 14 Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 What about rusmilitary? How does he sell some of that stuff to the US then? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 You would think if they are sold separate like through Saigastock then maybe. Like VK said, if you can't import them, you can't sell 'em either. Whether or not they come with the firearm is irrelevant. I see what your saying. The feds disapprove of the importer doing this. I still do not see what is stopping another company other than RAA from importing these, other than maybe the factory refusing to bypass their main importer because of their contract. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 What about rusmilitary? How does he sell some of that stuff to the US then? VERY CAREFULLY. That's why the springs and mag bodies often ship in separate parcels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 What about rusmilitary? How does he sell some of that stuff to the US then? Depending on your luck, customs seizes a lot of those packages. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 What about rusmilitary? How does he sell some of that stuff to the US then? Depending on your luck, customs seizes a lot of those packages. That sucks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidsuffolk 96 Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 What about rusmilitary? How does he sell some of that stuff to the US then? Depending on your luck, customs seizes a lot of those packages. That sucks. Works both ways though. We can get 8 rounders no problem (when they are in stock) but try buying ANYTHING from the US (even simple, unrestricted things like sights or stocks) and all the retailers come back with a "sorry we can't export" reply. I've more chance of being struck by lightning than getting anything from the US. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 I will go backwards here, took yesterday off to gather my thoughts, or I would have replied sooner - UK to USA - as was mentioned, that is really done at your own risk, and technically, and legally, you are not supposed to bring the 8 rounders in for resale, which was what was happening in the past, and the ATF wasnt amused by it, from the looks of what started happening. USA to UK - a few years ago, I was asked by a member of this forum, to help them get a choke set for thier s12 in the UK. Upon close inspection of US law, UK law, and international small arms laws, I did discover, that by said member providing proof of their FAC # (UK firearm certification, like what our CCW permits are like, kinda), and me labeling CLEARLY what was in the parcel, and including thier FAC# TO THIER SAIGA12, as well as stating what was in the package (sporting chokes are barrel parts in UK legality terms), it was in fact perfectly legal for me to ship as a private individual, to this member, blah blah. The package arrived in record time, I will note, even though it was CLEARLY LABELED - ATTN: UK CUSTOMS - SPORTING SHOTGUN CHOKES FOR FIREARM FAC# XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. The member recieved the package in what, less than 2 weeks, if I recall, which is FAST. It was I AM SURE due to the correct labeling. I was sent a few ultralight fishing lures for my trouble, and caught a number of trout on them, before the rocks in the creeks claimed them. How that would apply to high capacity US magazines, well, it doesnt. You need a license to export US made small arms parts, except to a military base or US embassy. bypassing factory US importer - Thats sort of a big no-no. I wouldnt recommend it. all the way up to the top, VanKiller has it spot on. This is the same thing for the factory flash hiders. To bring these types of parts into the US, even if RAAC OK'd it for another company to do it, would still make them involved, and would cause a reclassification of the weapon to 'non-sporting' . There really is no way around it that doesnt involve parts being brought in as military and law enforcement only parts. Not much I can add to what was said for clairty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidsuffolk 96 Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 USA to UK - a few years ago, I was asked by a member of this forum, to help them get a choke set for thier s12 in the UK. Upon close inspection of US law, UK law, and international small arms laws, I did discover, that by said member providing proof of their FAC # (UK firearm certification, like what our CCW permits are like, kinda), and me labeling CLEARLY what was in the parcel, and including thier FAC# TO THIER SAIGA12, as well as stating what was in the package (sporting chokes are barrel parts in UK legality terms), it was in fact perfectly legal for me to ship as a private individual, to this member, blah blah. The package arrived in record time, I will note, even though it was CLEARLY LABELED - ATTN: UK CUSTOMS - SPORTING SHOTGUN CHOKES FOR FIREARM FAC# XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. The member recieved the package in what, less than 2 weeks, if I recall, which is FAST. It was I AM SURE due to the correct labeling. I was sent a few ultralight fishing lures for my trouble, and caught a number of trout on them, before the rocks in the creeks claimed them. I hear what you're saying but it doesn't work like that in practice. I wanted a Tromix forend and until recently found nobody willing to post one to me. Now that's just a lump of plastic which would have no selling restriction over her whatsoever nor I doubt any in the US. In the UK only pressure parts are restricted so barrels, receivers etc need a licence. Things like FCG or magazines are not restricted in any way. I don't think they are restricted in the US but try getting someone to send abroad! When I was first converting my S12 I wanted a Tapco FCG but couldn't get from anyone and ended up using actual AK parts (or rather my gunsmith did as I had the work done.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sudaevpps43 31 Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) Import restrictions.......The Saiga is only allowed to come in country because it is a "Sporting weapon" . It is really hard to put the whole importation of the entire family of guns at risk for a single non-sporting mag. I don't like it either, but when dealing with the feds, you play by the rule of the day. And yes RAAC would damn sure like to sell factory 8 rd mags, just as much as we would like to buy them.....VK. It isn't the import restrictions per se, but rather the Saiga 12's design. Consider the 7.62 x 39 Saiga rifle. There are plenty of importers legally bringing in standard (i.e. 'non-sporting' in the eyes of the ATF) foreign-made 7.62 x 39 AK magazines with capacities over 10 rounds, but this doesn't change the 7.62 x 39 Saiga rifle's sporting status, because a stock 7.62 x 39 Saiga can't use these magazines without modification to the rifle. So the real issue is that a Saiga 12 shotgun, unlike a Saiga 7.62 x 39 rifle, can use magazines of 'non-sporting' capacity without modification. Hypothetically, if the Saiga 12 shotgun was of a design that had to be modified in order to work with a 8 round magazine, like the way a 7.62 x 39 Saiga rifle has to be modified to work with a standard 30 round AK magazines, there wouldn't be any issue and the 8 round Saiga 12 magazines could be imported for resale into the U.S. (though I believe because of the agreement signed by Russia during the Yeltsin era, 8 round magazines still couldn't be imported directly from Russia, but would instead have to come in through a reseller in another country). Of course this whole 'sporting purpose' BS on imported firearms shouldn't even exist, and what really needs to happen is elimination of the 1968 GCA which brought this stupidity into being. I actually now have some hope of this happening eventually because of the recent Heller ruling in D.C., which made it clear that the ownership of firearms designed for self-defense purposes was indeed a constitutional right. Hopefully with the supreme court having made this ruling congress will now start growing a backbone with regards to the 2nd amendment and repeal the 1968 GCA, or the supreme court will just throw out the 1968 GCA as unconstitutional (though I definitely won't be holding my breath waiting for either possibility). Edited September 23, 2008 by Frogfoot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigjimcalhoun 0 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) Edited September 24, 2008 by bigjimcalhoun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bayonet lug 1 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 so can rusmilitary import them or not? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 so can rusmilitary import them or not? No. You order from Rusmilitary and take your chances, just like everybody else here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bayonet lug 1 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) so can rusmilitary import them or not? No. You order from Rusmilitary and take your chances, just like everybody else here. so its like a 50/50 chance that i will get it. Or is it less or more? also what happens if i dont get it? any kind of refund? Edited September 24, 2008 by bayonet lug Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 so can rusmilitary import them or not? No. You order from Rusmilitary and take your chances, just like everybody else here. so its like a 50/50 chance that i will get it. Or is it less or more? also what happens if i dont get it? any kind of refund? When you order these mags from Rusmilitary you are committing an illegal act. WTF do you expect? Do a search and make your own decisions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted September 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 so can rusmilitary import them or not? No. You order from Rusmilitary and take your chances, just like everybody else here. so its like a 50/50 chance that i will get it. Or is it less or more? also what happens if i dont get it? any kind of refund? When you order these mags from Rusmilitary you are committing an illegal act. WTF do you expect? Do a search and make your own decisions. I'm not arguing with what your stating because I'm sure your right. What you stated seems to imply that most of these 8 rounders people keep displaying were attained by illegal means and that they are likely contra ban of some sort. Am I missing something? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bayonet lug 1 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 so can rusmilitary import them or not? No. You order from Rusmilitary and take your chances, just like everybody else here. so its like a 50/50 chance that i will get it. Or is it less or more? also what happens if i dont get it? any kind of refund? When you order these mags from Rusmilitary you are committing an illegal act. WTF do you expect? Do a search and make your own decisions. Well crap! Has anyone been jailed for doing this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 I'm not arguing with what your stating because I'm sure your right.What you stated seems to imply that most of these 8 rounders people keep displaying were attained by illegal means and that they are likely contra ban of some sort. Am I missing something? Well crap! Has anyone been jailed for doing this? If they were legal to import, don't you think the vendors would be awash in them? If the package is caught by customs, they confiscate it. No, you don't go to jail, you just don't get your package. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted September 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 If they were legal to import, don't you think the vendors would be awash in them? Didn't EAA have the 30 round polymer (Russian) authentic Saiga mags back in the day for a short while. I'm confused why it would be illegal to import these. Is it just the shotgun mags that there is an issue? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bayonet lug 1 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 I'm not arguing with what your stating because I'm sure your right.What you stated seems to imply that most of these 8 rounders people keep displaying were attained by illegal means and that they are likely contra ban of some sort. Am I missing something? Well crap! Has anyone been jailed for doing this? If they were legal to import, don't you think the vendors would be awash in them? If the package is caught by customs, they confiscate it. No, you don't go to jail, you just don't get your package. thanks for the info.well hell I will take that risk so long as I dont go to jail .But it does make you think what do they do with the mags? I hope they dont send them to the great magwell in the sky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) It's about like ordering Chinese herbs, most of the time they get through but sometimes they don't. I have always had the parcel replaced when I sent the seller a copy of the letter from Customs. I don't know if any RusMilitiary parcels have been confiscated or not. Ask Oleg at RusMilitiary if you're that interested. Last I checked he didn't have any rock n lock S-12 8 rd mags and didn't expect ot get any. Check with the dude in New Zealand and sustitute the 5 rd mag follower or cut the one in it down as they are built as 7 rd mags. That's more than I know. Edited September 24, 2008 by 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sicktooth 8 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 THIS MAN DISAPPROVES!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bayonet lug 1 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 It's about like ordering Chinese herbs, most of the time they get through but sometimes they don't. I have always had the parcel replaced when I sent the seller a copy of the letter from Customs. I don't know if any RusMilitiary parcels have been confiscated or not. Ask Oleg at RusMilitiary if you're that interested. Last I checked he didn't have any rock n lock S-12 8 rd mags and didn't expect ot get any. Check with the dude in New Zealand and sustitute the 5 rd mag follower or cut the one in it down as they are built as 7 rd mags. That's more than I know. yeah I e-mailed oleg last month. He told me he would have some in september, but its the 23rd so I will shoot him another e-mail next month. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bayonet lug 1 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 THIS MAN DISAPPROVES!!! NOOO!! Its not him Its the evil ATF!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GTwannabe 1 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 What about rusmilitary? How does he sell some of that stuff to the US then? VERY CAREFULLY. That's why the springs and mag bodies often ship in separate parcels. You're allowed to import parts valued under $100 without paperwork. Using a Russian 8-round mag with an unmodified S-12 = 922r violation, which is why the BATF won't allow resellers to import them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRice 34 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Totally off the topic of the 8 round mag here; Can someone tell me why the Saiga S-12C EXP-01 or the Vepr shotgun aren't being imported in a "sporter" configuration?Couldn't someone technically import one with the lame stock on it and a 5 round drop free mag? Or is it a non sporting gun because of the features they have? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Blasco 1 Posted September 24, 2008 Report Share Posted September 24, 2008 Totally off the topic of the 8 round mag here; Can someone tell me why the Saiga S-12C EXP-01 or the Vepr shotgun aren't being imported in a "sporter" configuration?Couldn't someone technically import one with the lame stock on it and a 5 round drop free mag? Or is it a non sporting gun because of the features they have? For VEPR-12 because the production capacity of the factory is so small and demand in the FSU supersedes production. Wheeeeeen they get new machinery and can raise their production numbers they will do it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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