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Move it, 6.5 Grendel. step aside, 6.8 SPC. Introducing the 6.5 MPC

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As if our armed forces don't have enough on their plates choosing a new rifle.

 

Here is the 6.5 MPC ( multi purpose cartridge ).

 

Simply put, this is a .223 case necked up for a 6.5mm bullet.

 

Only change needed to run it in existing 5.56mm weapons is a new barrel.

 

001.jpg

Four different bullets in the 6.5 MPC. Note all are

seated to 5.56 OAL to run through M-16 magazines.

Image courtesy of SSK Industries

 

SSK 6.5 MPC: Best Assault Rifle Cartridge for 21st Century Warfare?

Posted on Sunday, December 31 @ 11:54:47 PST by davidc

 

Ammunition by David Crane

david at defensereview.com

 

Small arms designer/developer J.D. Jones of SSK Industries has developed what may just prove to be a superior solution to the 6.8x43mm SPC (a.k.a. 6.8 SPC) and/or 6.5 Grendel (6.5x39mm) cartidges as a replacement for the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge for U.S. military general infantry and Special Operations (USSOCOM) use. Mr. Jones is calling it the 6.5mm Multi-Purpose Cartridge (6.5 MPC), and on paper, it looks pretty good.

 

The 6.5 MPC (6.5x42mm) utilizes the...

 

 

standard 5.56x45mm NATO/.223 Rem. case, which must be shortened by three (3) millimeters. However, to maximize powder capacity (and thus projectile velocity and ballistic/terminal performance), Mr. Jones pushed the case shoulder back a tad and increased the size of the case neck so it would accept a 6.5mm bullet. The result? A 95-grain "SSK Solid" bullet travelling at a muzzle velocity (MV) of approx. 2600 fps out of a 12-inch (12") barrel and approx. 2800 fps out of a 20-inch (20") barrel. So, were' guessing around 2700 fps out of a 16-inch (16") barrel (unconfirmed/unverified). Pretty respectable. Muzzle velocities for the 110-grain Sierra HP version of the 6.5 SPC are 2480 fps (12") and 2731 fps (20"). MVs for the 120-grain "SMK" round are 2220 fps (12") and 2400 fps (20"). 120-grains is the upper limit of bullet weight for this cartridge. Anything above that affords limited ballistic returns. Impact energy (terminal energy) is reportedly 30-50% greater for the 6.5 MPC over the 5.56mm NATO, depending on bullet weights and types, while the weapon remains highly controlloble on full-auto.

 

The 6.5 MPC page at the SSK Industries website mentions that they've fired a 107-grain SMK round at 2400 fps out of a weapon with a 12"-barreled CQBR-type upper receiver and that effective engagement range is 300+ yards. With longer barrels, the distance is increased.

 

So, why the 6.5 MPC instead of the 6.8 SPC? Ease and cost of conversion (weapons conversion), ammo capacity, and ammo weight (ammo carry capacity at a given load weight). The 6.5 MPC utilizes standard AR-15/M16/M4/M4A1 magazines and bolts, and will function in both the SOPMOD M4/M4A1 Carbine and belt-fed FN M249 SAW/LMG, provided you switch out the barrel(s). No further modification is reportedly necessary. Mag capacity for the 6.5mm MPC is 30 rounds (although you might still want to down-load it to 28, as many do with 5.56mm ammo for reliability purposes). The 6.8mm SPC doesn't stack properly in standard 5.56mm M4/M4A1 mags, and the magazines that have been developed for it limit ammo capacity to 25 rounds, as opposed to 30 rounds, so the 6.8 SPC mags will fit inside current military mag carry pouches. You can also use 5.56 NATO stripper clips to load 6.5 MPC rounds into the mag. At present, there are no 6.8 SPC stripper clips.

 

6.5 MPC ammo will reportedly feed as reliably as 5.56x45mm NATO ball ammo, and it (6.5 MPC) can utilize standard M27 links (belt links) with no modification, so it will reportedly feed reliably through the M249 SAW. You only have to switch the barrel to 6.5mm caliber. Not so with the 6.8 SPC, which would require modification to the M27 link.

 

The 6.8 SPC cartridge weighs approx. 40% more than the 5.56mm NATO cartridge. That, combined with the fact that 6.8 SPC mags are made of steel instead of aluminum (making the magazine roughly twice as heavy), means that the infantry warfighter or Spec-Operator will be able to carry less rounds of 6.8 SPC vs. 6.5 MPC or 5.56 NATO.

 

Reported ammo carry capacity breakdown for the various cartridges at the same carry weight (specific weight unkown, and unconfirmed/unverified):

 

5.56 NATO: 10 x 30-round mags = 300 rounds

 

6.5 MPC: 9 x 30-round mags = 270 rounds

 

6.8 SPC: 7 x 25-round mags = 175 rounds

 

DefenseReview recommends that you read Stan Crist's article on the 6.5mm Multi-Purpose Cartridge in the #44 issue of Special Weapons for Military & Police (SWMP) magazine. That issue has a photo of a U.S. Ordnance M60E4/MK43 Mod1 Commando "light machine gun series" GPMG (7.62x51mm) on the cover, and the article is titled "SSK 6.5mm MPC: Multi-Purpose Cartridge delivers bet-your-life performance." While SSK Industries Website indicates that they developed the 6.5 MPC round at the behest of one Brian Hormberg (USMC), it should perhaps be noted that Stanley Crist mentions in his article that he wrote about his own idea for a 6.5mm assault rifle cartidge in the #36 Issue of Special Weapons for Military and Police. Mr. Crist called his cartridge the 6.5mm Standard Combat Cartridge (6.5 SCC).

 

Bottom line, if the 6.5 MPC proves reliable in the AR-15/M16 and SOPMOD M4/M4A1 platforms, is combat accurate out to realistic assault rifle engagement distances, and the AR-type upper receivers and barrels hold up to full-auto fire at high round count, then it may just be the ticket for the 5.56's replacement (and thus a better answer than the 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel) for infantry assault rifles and carbines. Time, money, and politics will tell.

Original Defense Review article.

 

SSK Industries (the inventors) page on this cartridge.

 

The great google provides.

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I was in favor of the 6.8 SPC myself. due to its more impressive ballistics.

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funny but yet obvious omission here is the fact that this was tried during the development of the 6.8SPC and REJECTED.

 

the 6.8SPC has everything that is required from a combat rifle cartridge. you need not look any further than that.

 

a good rule of thumb is that if the cartridge is not being loaded by at least 3 separate manufacturers then dont bother with it.

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so how is this any different than the 6x45 wildcat that already exists... and, they show it loaded with regular ammo, the military is "going green" so they are using tungsten/nylon ammo...???

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so how is this any different than the 6x45 wildcat that already exists... and, they show it loaded with regular ammo, the military is "going green" so they are using tungsten/nylon ammo...???

The 6x45 uses a 6mm bullet.

 

The 6.5 MPC uses a 6.5mm bullet.

 

I thought this was interesting because it only takes a barrel change to use it.

 

No special mags (uses any .223/5.56 magazine).

 

No reduced round count in existing mags (round uses .223/5.56 cases).

 

I was thinking it'd make a good Saiga mod.

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so how is this any different than the 6x45 wildcat that already exists... and, they show it loaded with regular ammo, the military is "going green" so they are using tungsten/nylon ammo...???

The 6x45 uses a 6mm bullet.

 

The 6.5 MPC uses a 6.5mm bullet.

 

I thought this was interesting because it only takes a barrel change to use it.

 

No special mags (uses any .223/5.56 magazine).

 

No reduced round count in existing mags (round uses .223/5.56 cases).

 

I was thinking it'd make a good Saiga mod.

 

An actual reason to get the .223, convert it to 6.5x45 ;)

 

 

EDIT***

 

 

On second thought, no.

 

"MVs for the 120-grain "SMK" round are 2220 fps (12") and 2400 fps (20")"

 

Sooo basically a 7.62x39 (124gr at 2350 FPS)....

 

 

AMAZING that after 60 years, the ideal cartridge of the future is almost identical projectile weight and MV of the 7.62x39....

Edited by SaigaNoobie

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so how is this any different than the 6x45 wildcat that already exists... and, they show it loaded with regular ammo, the military is "going green" so they are using tungsten/nylon ammo...???

The 6x45 uses a 6mm bullet.

 

The 6.5 MPC uses a 6.5mm bullet.

 

I thought this was interesting because it only takes a barrel change to use it.

 

No special mags (uses any .223/5.56 magazine).

 

No reduced round count in existing mags (round uses .223/5.56 cases).

 

I was thinking it'd make a good Saiga mod.

 

An actual reason to get the .223, convert it to 6.5x45 ;)

 

 

EDIT***

 

 

On second thought, no.

 

"MVs for the 120-grain "SMK" round are 2220 fps (12") and 2400 fps (20")"

 

Sooo basically a 7.62x39 (124gr at 2350 FPS)....

 

 

AMAZING that after 60 years, the ideal cartridge of the future is almost identical projectile weight and MV of the 7.62x39....

 

:lolol:

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so how is this any different than the 6x45 wildcat that already exists... and, they show it loaded with regular ammo, the military is "going green" so they are using tungsten/nylon ammo...???

The 6x45 uses a 6mm bullet.

 

The 6.5 MPC uses a 6.5mm bullet.

 

I thought this was interesting because it only takes a barrel change to use it.

 

No special mags (uses any .223/5.56 magazine).

 

No reduced round count in existing mags (round uses .223/5.56 cases).

 

I was thinking it'd make a good Saiga mod.

 

No argument, all good points...

 

 

Yep, right back to square one... I wonder if they will re-evaluate the 6mm's from the past...

 

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm

 

Check out the Federov Avtomat of 1916

Edited by MD_Willington

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Why isn't 6.5 grendel represented here?

 

 

6.8 SPC is relatively old news.... The Grendel is the best I've seen.

Because this thread isn't about the 6.5 Gendel or 6.8 SPC. It's about the 6.5 MPC (multi purpose cartridge)

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But... your title said "6.5 Grendel move it."

 

....sad...

Yes, as in "make room on the bench for another 6.x 'wonder round' designed for the mlitary"

Edited by nalioth

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i find it funny that first the US forced NATO's hand in accepting 7.62x51mm as a full power cartridge rather than the .280 intermediate that many northwestern european nations were leaning towards, only to then move to 5.56x45mm intermediate, who proved to be 'too intermediate'. and now we're moving back inbetween.

 

feels to me like we could've been here decades ago...

 

my choice would go to Grendel for personal use btw. though i admit it's probably not really optimal for military use (short carbines on full auto stuff).

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so how is this any different than the 6x45 wildcat that already exists... and, they show it loaded with regular ammo, the military is "going green" so they are using tungsten/nylon ammo...???

The 6x45 uses a 6mm bullet.

 

The 6.5 MPC uses a 6.5mm bullet.

 

I thought this was interesting because it only takes a barrel change to use it.

 

No special mags (uses any .223/5.56 magazine).

 

No reduced round count in existing mags (round uses .223/5.56 cases).

 

I was thinking it'd make a good Saiga mod.

 

Another point in favor of such a conversion would be all the once fired brass available.

Some other interesting cartridges for the platform are the 7.62x40 and 6.8 Kramer UCC.These might require polymer mags to mod for fit though.

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Gotta go with nalioth on this one.

Cost effective aspect is appealing. Ballistics more than adaquate.

6.5 Multi purpose cartridge.

6.8 Special purpose cartridge.

I never heard what the Special purpose was in the 6.8.

6.5 Grendel is fat litttle PPC, aka 7.62 X 39

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Gotta go with nalioth on this one.

Cost effective aspect is appealing. Ballistics more than adaquate.

6.5 Multi purpose cartridge.

6.8 Special purpose cartridge.

I never heard what the Special purpose was in the 6.8.

6.5 Grendel is fat litttle PPC, aka 7.62 X 39

Special Purpose is because it was developed by special forces for their use, i.e. special purpose. Grendel appears to be a nice enough cartridge that will never go anywhere because it's proprietary, hell half the posts on the forums dedicated to it are "Are we dead yet?" Same style cartridge as the 6.5 MPC was tried and rejected by the team that developed the 6.8 SPC. Personally, I'm ordering a 6.8 SPC in the next few days.

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"On 17th June 2003 I received an email from a Cris Murry: "This is a reply to the guess work all the supposed smart people are doing on the 6.8x43mm. It would appear that our operational security is working real well. But here are a few bits for you guys to chew on. Its not made from a .25 Rem. case, or reforming .223 brass, how do I know, I designed it. It has nearly the same flight path as the 7.62x51mm M80 ball round out to 650 meters. Delivers approx 4 times the energy on target at 300 meters compared to a SS109 round. The gel block tests are awesome. It drops a 150-300 lbs feral hogs like an axe, also works great on whitetails. My first choice was 7mm projectiles, but the users wanted something with a flatter trajectory, closer to the 5.56. Tested all calibers 6mm, 6.5mm, .25, 6.8 (.270 for Americans, oh actually the Chinese came up with the 6.8x63mm in the 1930s), didn't do much testing in .30, because it would only be an American M43 cartridge. This was not a private endeavourer nor a fully sanctioned government project, just users and a gun builder making a better product for our guys on the ground, in harms way." "

Edited by gunnysmith

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"On 17th June 2003 I received an email from a Cris Murry: "This is a reply to the guess work all the supposed smart people are doing on the 6.8x43mm. It would appear that our operational security is working real well. But here are a few bits for you guys to chew on. Its not made from a .25 Rem. case, or reforming .223 brass, how do I know, I designed it. It has nearly the same flight path as the 7.62x51mm M80 ball round out to 650 meters. Delivers approx 4 times the energy on target at 300 meters compared to a SS109 round. The gel block tests are awesome. It drops a 150-300 lbs feral hogs like an axe, also works great on whitetails. My first choice was 7mm projectiles, but the users wanted something with a flatter trajectory, closer to the 5.56. Tested all calibers 6mm, 6.5mm, .25, 6.8 (.270 for Americans, oh actually the Chinese came up with the 6.8x63mm in the 1930s), didn't do much testing in .30, because it would only be an American M43 cartridge. This was not a private endeavourer nor a fully sanctioned government project, just users and a gun builder making a better product for our guys on the ground, in harms way." "

Not sure if that was directed at me, nor entirely sure where you're going with it but if it was aimed at me, you might want to read the first section also:

 

Anybody who's been keeping abreast of small arms and ammo develpments in the USSOCOM arena should already be aware fo the 6.8x43mm SPC a.k.a. "6.8mm Remington SPC (Special Purpose Cartridge)" cartridge concept. The 6.8x43mm Special Purpose Cartridge (SPC) was conceived and designed with the help of members of the U.S. Army 5th Special Forces Group as a much better answer for urban warfare and CQB (Close Quarters Battle) than the 62gr 5.56x45mm NATO round, and a much better short and intermediate distance sniping round than the 77 gr. 5.56mm round that's been utilized of late in the SPR (Special Purpose Rifle) by U.S. Spec-Ops personnel in the Middle East.

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I didn't bring this to y'all attention to start a pissin' match.

 

I brought it up to bring it to y'alls attention, so maybe some handloader / tinkerer / wildcatter might want to give it a run.

 

Personally, I'll take an AK or AR in all 3 calibers headbang.gif

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Special purpose ammo is a misnomer in the case of a new military cartridge.

Multi purpose or general purpose should be the criteria.

The 6.5 PC is more economical in the overall concept.

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I didn't bring this to y'all attention to start a pissin' match.

 

I brought it up to bring it to y'alls attention, so maybe some handloader / tinkerer / wildcatter might want to give it a run.

 

Personally, I'll take an AK or AR in all 3 calibers headbang.gif

+1, I listened to the shit when they adopted the .223 and there was enough stuff flying I am prejudiced against it. I'll admit it. I was looking for something more potent and looked at the Grendel very closely as well as the 6.8 SPC. For my particular set of needs I like the 6.8 SPC, I wish to hell the 6.5 Grendel was more open so more could get behind it and pretty much yawn over this one since I'm buying everything for the first time and don't care about the backward compatibility.

 

Personally I think this cartridge misses the point. It's not worth changing unless you bring enough improvement to the table. I would expect that the cost of the replacement process will dwarf the changing of mags and bolt.

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Special purpose ammo is a misnomer in the case of a new military cartridge.

Multi purpose or general purpose should be the criteria.

The 6.5 PC is more economical in the overall concept.

My understanding was that they were trying to sneak it in the door for a few special units (themselves) rather than trying to change the world. Just to improve their little corner of the world.

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I have always enjoyed the 6.5 x 55 Swiss round and recently found the the 6.5 Grendel but this 6.5 mpc looks like the most convenient conversion for the saiga. Still what advantage would this round provide over the 7.62 x39? I mean if one were to look at having to reload their cache of SHTF rounds it would have to be for a very good reason.

 

any help and info will be appreciated.

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Interesting cartridge, thanks for sharing. If it's adopted (and lots of spent military brass becomes available), it would be a great Saiga project. But I think it's time for the military to move to a new small arms platform. If someone wants to give me a few hundred million dollars to sink into development, I have a very good idea...

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I can vouch for a .223 case necked out to 7mm to form the 7mm TCU. I used one for years shooting IMSA. I also used it on Mule Deer in Montana and it (out of a Contender barrel) killed well and was a dream to load and shoot. It sounds like the 6.5 MPC is similar. I know they put 6mm bullets in the .223 case as well with good results.

 

I always felt the 7mm TCU had the same ballistics as the 7.62X39 in shorter barrels.

 

I'll scan some photos and post (this was before digital cameras).

Edited by Fluid Power

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This is new? How? The 6.5 TC/Ugalde has been around since....the mid 90's anyway, maybe longer. .223 case necked up to 6.5mm. Not sure what they did to the shoulder; may be different on the MPC.

 

Ugalde is a gunsmith who introduced a series of cartridges based on necked up .223 cases that were intended for the TC Contender. There was a 6mm, the 6.5 and a 7mm. The 6.5 and 7mm versions were supposedly great silhouette cartridges when shot from Contender handguns. The TC custom shop provided Contender barrels chambered for these cartridges for years.

 

Added on edit: Sorry, Fluid Power. Didn't see your post.

Edited by 555JM

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