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The right way to fit your drum!


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#1 Mike Davidson

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 07:06 PM

First please watch the fitting video through this link:


After viewing the video you can view more detailed pics below of how to identify which fitting you need to preform, the fitting locations, and how to preform the fittings. Remeber to click the pics to make them bigger!

It is important to identify the correct fitting. Before you perform the "B" fitting make damn certain you aren't skipping the "A" fitting.



"A" fitting , identification
100_1641.jpg 100_1642.jpg




"A" fitting , location and procedure
100_1655.jpg 100_1656.jpg




"B" fitting , identification also represents "A" fitting, completed
100_1650.jpg




"B" fitting , location and procedure
100_1657.jpg 100_1660.jpg
100_1651.jpg




"B" fitting, completed
100_1653.jpg



Everything above was added 10-17-08. Everything below is the correct timeline state in the posts time and date stamp. Post # 27, 29, 30, 31, and 36 are from a seperate thread I merged into this one.


It seems about half will need to fit the drum. I wanted to let everyone know I am going to film a video (hopefully this weekend) on how to fit the drum magazine to your saiga-12. Only a very small amount of material should be removed. I am talking dust! If you have any questions or concerns please wait to do the mag fitting. It is very simple if you know what you are looking for and I will show you clearly what that is. 2 Fittings, in 2 locations, in the rear mag catch area. You may have to do one and possible both.
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#2 Monk

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 10:18 PM

I tested mine on three different Saigas and it didn't lock into any of them. On two of them, it went in all the way, but just barely couldn't get over the top of the mag lock/release thingy. On one of them, it wouldn't go "up" all the way. I'd hate to modify it to fit one and then have it not fit in others. I'm not bitching or anything, and I am confident that it can be very easily modified to fit, but I want to be sure I do it right the first time.

Edited by Monk, 03 October 2008 - 10:23 PM.


#3 bf2rules141

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 10:29 PM

It seems about half will need to fit the drum. I wanted to let everyone know I am going to film a video (hopefully this weekend) on how to fit the drum magazine to your saiga-12. Only a very small amount of material should be removed. I am talking dust! If you have any questions or concerns please wait to do the mag fitting. It is very simple if you know what you are looking for and I will show you clearly what that is. 2 Fittings, in 2 locations, in the rear mag catch area. You may have to do one and possible both.


Will this be fixed with the 2nd. run? or will the mod. have to be done to them too?

#4 1911

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 10:51 PM

It seems about half will need to fit the drum. I wanted to let everyone know I am going to film a video (hopefully this weekend) on how to fit the drum magazine to your saiga-12. Only a very small amount of material should be removed. I am talking dust! If you have any questions or concerns please wait to do the mag fitting. It is very simple if you know what you are looking for and I will show you clearly what that is. 2 Fittings, in 2 locations, in the rear mag catch area. You may have to do one and possible both.


Will this be fixed with the 2nd. run? or will the mod. have to be done to them too?

If by "fixed" you mean that it will work in all S-12's without any fitting of the drum, no. You get the absolute best fit by following the simple instructions included with the MD-20. If you try to "fix" it, it will be loose in 50%+ of the weapons.
WATCH THIS VIDEO!!!
http://transsylvania...their-guns.html

Our Republic's Founders had it right. "To disarm the people is
the best and most effectual way to enslave them," warned George
Mason. Patrick Henry concurred, imploring future generations:
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one
who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve
it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are
inevitably ruined.

#5 oak

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 11:01 PM

Just like OEM saiga mags.
Fu#$ing love it. :killer: :killer: :killer:
Thanks again Mike
They're coming. Are you ready?

#6 evildog69

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 11:03 PM

Mine almost fit out of the box but after following Mike's easy instructions i carefully filed the two points on the drum and it fits like a glove. :beer:

#7 Mike Davidson

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 11:09 PM

It seems about half will need to fit the drum. I wanted to let everyone know I am going to film a video (hopefully this weekend) on how to fit the drum magazine to your saiga-12. Only a very small amount of material should be removed. I am talking dust! If you have any questions or concerns please wait to do the mag fitting. It is very simple if you know what you are looking for and I will show you clearly what that is. 2 Fittings, in 2 locations, in the rear mag catch area. You may have to do one and possible both.


Will this be fixed with the 2nd. run? or will the mod. have to be done to them too?

If by "fixed" you mean that it will work in all S-12's without any fitting of the drum, no. You get the absolute best fit by following the simple instructions included with the MD-20. If you try to "fix" it, it will be loose in 50%+ of the weapons.

Correct, I originally only planned to have one fitting ,the "B" fitting instructions. This is the fitting that is includes as a Russian instruction included with "some :unsure: " of the extra factory 5 rd mags you purchase ( not the 5rd mag included with the gun, the russians mod those). I have a thread with a pic of these Russian instrucions as provided by the factory somewhere in my section here.

The other fitting I mention, "A", is something that is becoming more common from the factory. It used to be rare. If you have the last 4 digits of your serial number penciled on your factory 5rd mag it is very likely you will need to do fitting "A" on the drum. The russians are preforming this fitting in the factory and matching that mag to the gun they fit it to by the penciled serial numbers. If you look at the top of the rear mag catch of you factory mag I think you will find it isn't a nice clean sharp corner and has been trimmed, shaved, or filed by hand. It is likely as well if you have this done that a newly purchased Russian 5rder isn't going to lock into your gun either without doing the "A" fitting to it as well and (maybe) even the AGP and russian 8's.

I will be pointing all this out in the video including showing a pic of a penciled, modded fartoy 5 and a factory 5 with no pencil and no mods. I think after I make the video it will clear this up and show everyone why it is neseccary. I am also going to extensivly test what it will mean to the fit of the drum if I make the "A" fitting already worked into the drum from me. If I can clear it up without sacrificing the tightness of the drum in the reciever I will. If I can't, I won't. I feel it is important to stabilize and support the weight of the loaded drum as much as possible. I have fired looser fitting drums that match the rock and wobble of the factory 5 in the receiver and never had any problems or extra wear but it just isn't what I wanted for the drum. It want the drum to lock in as solid and firm as possible.

#8 Juggernaut

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 11:12 PM

Mike... wasn't all the fitting info in the instruction book?

If you look in between the front cover and the very cool/funny back cover... you will find allot of good info....

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It is not in defeating your enemies; It's about the strategy of killing the evil of one man to give life to ten thousand" ~Yagyu Munenori


#9 Cameron Hadley

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 11:20 PM

Mikes done the right thing, by making sure there is more than enough material, so they can be fitted. These things come from Russia with custom fitted mags! Loooooooooooooooooooooooose tolerances, make it very hard to predict fit ups, and function. I believe that Mike has worked hard to find that middle ground, my hats off to you Bro!

#10 evildog69

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 11:25 PM

Mike... wasn't all the fitting info in the instruction book?

If you look in between the front cover and the very cool/funny back cover... you will find allot of good info....


Am i missing something with the back cover of the manual? I've looked at it but i'm not seeing it? :blink:

#11 bf2rules141

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Posted 03 October 2008 - 11:31 PM

It seems about half will need to fit the drum. I wanted to let everyone know I am going to film a video (hopefully this weekend) on how to fit the drum magazine to your saiga-12. Only a very small amount of material should be removed. I am talking dust! If you have any questions or concerns please wait to do the mag fitting. It is very simple if you know what you are looking for and I will show you clearly what that is. 2 Fittings, in 2 locations, in the rear mag catch area. You may have to do one and possible both.


Will this be fixed with the 2nd. run? or will the mod. have to be done to them too?

If by "fixed" you mean that it will work in all S-12's without any fitting of the drum, no. You get the absolute best fit by following the simple instructions included with the MD-20. If you try to "fix" it, it will be loose in 50%+ of the weapons.


thank you 1911,...i understand now,....

#12 Etek

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 10:05 PM

Mike's instructions inlcuded with the drum are very good. The filing needed (If at all) does seem to be to the guns with digits written on the original magazines as mine is a 2001 with S/N 0001 on the gun and mag. You need to only steal/borrow your female companion's fingernail file and follow the instructions. Be warned! The drum 'might' fit OK with no ammo in it but need tweaking because the ammo tends to force things rearward. In any case it's really easy. I suggest fitting with empty mag then load 'er up and repeat the procedure if needed. As I said, you need a needle type file if at all and put the Bastard file down.
I spent 10 minutes on before and after loading filing. And once easily fitted it ran perfectly.

#13 waltham_41

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 11:35 PM

The instructions are very precise. I read them about 5 times before filing anything, wanted to get it right the first time and I did. Dont get carried away filing, you will most likely only be removing thousandth of inchs, a little goes a long way.

#14 headshot

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 09:41 PM

Mike... wasn't all the fitting info in the instruction book?

If you look in between the front cover and the very cool/funny back cover... you will find allot of good info....


Am i missing something with the back cover of the manual? I've looked at it but i'm not seeing it? :blink:



Maybe you are dyslexic and everything looks just right! :lolol:

BTW, Mine lock in PERFECTLY, just like my factory 8 rounders. No side-to-side play. I was VERY impressed.

#15 WS6_Keith

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 02:11 PM

Got my drums in last Friday and had to work the "B" on both. The first one came out real nice - I had to file about 1/2 of the notch off though. I got a little over aggressive on the second one and it now has a little up/down slop in it...about 1/8". I haven't fired it yet, but I'm wondering if this is going to be a problem. If so, what can I use to fill it back up a bit? Suggestions?

#16 Gas Giant

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Posted 08 October 2008 - 09:22 PM

I filed mine on "A" side first and "B" side just like the directions said, a little ,..then test fit and do "A" first, and then "B"
it still is a little tight to lock in

I hand cycled some rounds through,.. the first copule of times it went kinda rough, they go smoother as I did it multiple times.

If you filed off too much, I would let Mike make a reccomendationa s to what to do to fix it, if its a plastick welder or JB weld, who knows,..
- GG

#17 kisatu

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 03:06 PM

The Instructions are great. I have like 10 Izhmash mags and 3 of the new Taiwan mags. I have to do Both type "A" and type "B" mods just to get them to barley fit. On Agp's i need to file off all the extra mold above the 3 horizontal lines or it will not sit far enough in. I was worried at 1st i took to much off... But it just fit, just like the factory and Taiwan ones. Real snug no "slap mag". After about 10 hand tests. loading, unloading and cycling rounds i had laying around i thought it was ok. So i took it to the range last weekend. 3rd shot in the whole lip back just ripped off! I had to file it down so much to fit it could not hold its own weight when the recoil was felt. I agree with many sizes and lose specs you have to over mold but i would put some type of steal insert on the rear, i noticed the front has something. Like the Bakelite Izhmash mags they have both. I am not complaining i am just stating what happened to me and my 1st drum glad i have 2. What should i do with the 2nd one? I took my time and i know what i am/was doing when shaving the mags down. Im afraid my gun just has the mags sit to far in for any heavy mag to work less it is stronger some how. That little bit of plastic just was not enough. Should i just blow it up or will there be a mag well "that will fit the drum" now that mine is already fitted for one? lol. After it broke i wanted to do more testing so i just used my other hand as a brace....it worked. I Thought mike would be glad to know i was so mad i put everything i had in the puppy n shot her to hell "00"buck, bird shot of all #'s, even Italy Centurion .650 ball with 6 "00" buck, Armor piercing steal slugs,High brass rem slugs and shot, That Wallmart Winchester crap, and they all cycled wonderful! The drop test with 17 rounds in it made me happy, not even a scratch other then the rear lip snapped off...witch caused that test..... unplanned of course. Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image THE SAIGA GODS HATE ME!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

Edited by kisatu, 10 October 2008 - 03:15 PM.


#18 Mike Davidson

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 03:44 PM

The Instructions are great. I have like 10 Izhmash mags and 3 of the new Taiwan mags. I have to do Both type "A" and type "B" mods just to get them to barley fit. On Agp's i need to file off all the extra mold above the 3 horizontal lines or it will not sit far enough in. I was worried at 1st i took to much off... But it just fit, just like the factory and Taiwan ones. Real snug no "slap mag". After about 10 hand tests. loading, unloading and cycling rounds i had laying around i thought it was ok. So i took it to the range last weekend. 3rd shot in the whole lip back just ripped off! I had to file it down so much to fit it could not hold its own weight when the recoil was felt. I agree with many sizes and lose specs you have to over mold but i would put some type of steal insert on the rear, i noticed the front has something. Like the Bakelite Izhmash mags they have both. I am not complaining i am just stating what happened to me and my 1st drum glad i have 2. What should i do with the 2nd one? I took my time and i know what i am/was doing when shaving the mags down. Im afraid my gun just has the mags sit to far in for any heavy mag to work less it is stronger some how. That little bit of plastic just was not enough. Should i just blow it up or will there be a mag well "that will fit the drum" now that mine is already fitted for one? lol. After it broke i wanted to do more testing so i just used my other hand as a brace....it worked. I Thought mike would be glad to know i was so mad i put everything i had in the puppy n shot her to hell "00"buck, bird shot of all #'s, even Italy Centurion .650 ball with 6 "00" buck, Armor piercing steal slugs,High brass rem slugs and shot, That Wallmart Winchester crap, and they all cycled wonderful! The drop test with 17 rounds in it made me happy, not even a scratch other then the rear lip snapped off...witch caused that test..... unplanned of course. THE SAIGA GODS HATE ME!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

Could you send that drum back to me? It doesn't look like the entire catch broke off and that it should still be holding the mag. I would really like to see this drum. I'll fix it or replace it. Please wait to fit your other drum until I can evaluate what has happened here. I have never had this happen so it is new to me. Please don't mess with the drum any further so I can better tell what has happened. Please send it my PO box 13746, Dayton, Ohio 45413

#19 1911

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 04:00 PM

Now that's service with a smile! :super: :super:
WATCH THIS VIDEO!!!
http://transsylvania...their-guns.html

Our Republic's Founders had it right. "To disarm the people is
the best and most effectual way to enslave them," warned George
Mason. Patrick Henry concurred, imploring future generations:
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one
who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve
it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are
inevitably ruined.

#20 kisatu

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 05:51 PM

Mike you are a true scholar and a gentleman. I will mail it Monday. I'm in PA so should not take to long. It Broke with an indent and the bottom is just a hair to short now like a mm about. it even fits and will hold, if i hold still. lol but less i am modeling for a pic it will fall out. The shape is like an AGP 10rd now just a mm about shorter. I look forward to hearing from you. Many thanks. :D

Edited by kisatu, 10 October 2008 - 05:51 PM.


#21 Monk

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 12:42 AM

This is in response to kisatu, but it applies to pretty much everyone who has this problem:

If nearly all mags barely fit in your gun and are really tight, it is much easier to simply dremel material off the top of the mag catch in extremely small increments until your mags fit without you having to jam them up in there. In one of my guns, I had to file it down to get all of my mags to fit, and in another one, THE FACTORY MAG IT CAME WITH wouldn't even fit. LOL I am envious of my friend's IZ-107, cuz his has cycled flawlessly with ALL ammo, and has required ZERO modifications in order to accept any mag. Long mag catches seem to be a somewhat common problem in Saigas though. Mags are supposed to be snug, but you don't want them to be completely stiff once they do lock in because that will put excess pressure on the tabs of the mags and over time, they may break off. This is true for all AK variants, not just Saiga 12s.

Note that I am not trying to blame kisatu or anything. For all I know, he could have simply gotten a lemon that would have broken anyways, which can and has happened with other mags of different brands, so it is well within the realm of possibility.

+1 for Mike D. Absolutely amazing guy and businessman.

Edited by Monk, 11 October 2008 - 12:52 AM.


#22 Twinsen

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 10:50 PM

My drum fits strangely. If I really force it in with a lot of pressure pushing forwards on the front latch, it locks right in most of the time. If I just try to put it in normally, it never does. There is sanding in my future.

I only had the thing jam once using Federal bulk pack through 200 rounds. However, Winchester AA feeds perfectly and is all I ever plan on buying anymore anyway. The Federal stuff has jammed before in my 5 round mag and AGPs. It's just crappy ammo.

This drum is fucking awesome, as good as it could be without a tech coming to my house and fitting the drum to my cheap $200 Russian shotgun. :devil:
I might end up being around a lot more.
Posted Image Posted Image

#23 kisatu

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 10:27 AM

Hey Mike, I mailed the drum today. Went with usps just to see how they fair up to ups lol. I fig we might as well do a study because i have to mail it anyway. Looking forward to hearing from you. There is a sheet with all my contact info on it packed with the drum. You could say i forgot to pack the user's guide but really i just want something pretty to stare it till i can play with my drums. LOL THANKS AGAIN!

#24 6x6pinz

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 03:06 PM

I found that with all three of my drums I had to file just a little off the front sides so it would go fully forward. When I did this no other filing was necessary. I tried the step one and two on the first one and after a little filing and noticing no better fit I started looking elsewhere. Once I filed the front no problem. Did the same to the other two and did not need to do anything else except shoot away. Really scares the people at the indoor range I shoot at.

#25 WS6_Keith

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 04:06 PM

Got my drums in last Friday and had to work the "B" on both. The first one came out real nice - I had to file about 1/2 of the notch off though. I got a little over aggressive on the second one and it now has a little up/down slop in it...about 1/8". I haven't fired it yet, but I'm wondering if this is going to be a problem. If so, what can I use to fill it back up a bit? Suggestions?


Mike, any thoughts?

#26 kisatu

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 07:43 PM

I found that with all three of my drums I had to file just a little off the front sides so it would go fully forward. When I did this no other filing was necessary. I tried the step one and two on the first one and after a little filing and noticing no better fit I started looking elsewhere. Once I filed the front no problem. Did the same to the other two and did not need to do anything else except shoot away.


Hey 6x6pinz, Did you file them down to a point like AGP mags, just one side like factory mags and did you just round them at the bottom? Pics would rock! [no worries mike i will not touch other one till you contact me LOL i am just curious to know]

#27 hbsseller

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 10:04 PM

Just got my drums. My wife tossed the instructions (nice), so I have a quick question. I have not put much time into this, so don't take it as a drum complaint.

I tried inserting both drums into my two Tromix S12s. The back would not click in on either one, nomatter how hard I pushed. I guess in theory I could have really pulled on the front of the drum a bit harder, but really did not want to break anything. Anyone else have this issue? Factory mags click in just perfect.

Thanks.

#28 6x6pinz

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 10:10 PM

Here are some pics of the mods I had to do to fit the mags to my Saiga. Once done they fit and work perfectly. Should be mentioned that it took a few tries to get it right, did not want to take off any more than necessary.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by 6x6pinz, 15 October 2008 - 10:13 PM.


#29 waltham_41

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 10:14 PM

Some of the drums require slight fittings to the shotgun. Do not force it. Tell the wife you need to buy another drum now so you can get the instructions she threw out.

That or you might check on Mikes site and see if he has the instructions there.

#30 Racer 27

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 10:37 AM

Mine wouldn't fit right away either but about 10 mins, following Mike's directions, with a hand file and she fits great.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark Professionals built the Titanic.
DO YOUR OWN CONVERSION!

Look here for how: http://forum.saiga-1...showtopic=40886




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