gunnysmith 4 Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Document that please. Internet rumors are just that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaddis 1,689 Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Document that please.Internet rumors are just that How's about a PDF file then? (I could have sworn the originally included pictures were a hell of a lot more bloody). Anyway, the story was posted on REC.GUNS (I think?) awhile back if anyone wants to "Google Group" it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaddis 1,689 Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) Screwed up, can't find PDF, but found this on REC.GUNS: Ejected round blows Probably could find more if I wasn't in such a hurry... Edited October 17, 2008 by Gaddis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Screwed up, can't find PDF, but found this on REC.GUNS: Ejected round blows Probably could find more if I wasn't in such a hurry... read quite a ways through the thread,it was not suspected as a "hangfire"as far as I read. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waltham_41 52 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Gunnysmith just because you have not seen a hang fire that took more than a second does not mean that it is physically impossible. I am sure there are a lot of things that happen in this world that you or I both can be wrong about. But I will defer to your vast experience, and drop the subject. I do not believe winning an argument on the internet is much of a victory. BTW, I hope you contacted the Enfield guy with the mangled thumb and told him he was wrong about how he hurt himself. I am sure he appreciated knowing that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) It has nothing to do with winning or losing a interet argument. It has to do with fact verus fiction. Each person should be able to decide for themselves with the infornation available. If someone wants to wait 10 minutes, or an hour it makes no difference to me, stick the bayonet in the ground and come back in a year if you want. At least they will be making an informed decision. It is up to the individual to make that choice for themselves. There are no documented cases ever found of a non-blackpowder firearm ever exceeding 1 second for a hangfire. And of course there are no fictions on the internet. Never happen. everything on the internet is true. Edited October 17, 2008 by gunnysmith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 BTW as far as shooting goes, how much reloading,practice and shooting do you think it took for me to earn these? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
belt fed frog 56 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 i have had hang fires on nazi 39 8 mm that were over a second a few as long as ten seconds back when VIC`s sold it many a year ago ,i have never had a reload hang fire in over 41 years, it only happens with very old ammo and just because it hasen`t happened to you means NOTHING Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 i have had hang fires on nazi 39 8 mm that were over a second a few as long as ten seconds back when VIC`s sold it many a year ago ,i have never had a reload hang fire in over 41 years, it only happens with very old ammo and just because it hasen`t happened to you means NOTHING I repeat: It has nothing to do with winning or losing a interet argument. It has to do with fact verus fiction. Each person should be able to decide for themselves with the infornation available. If someone wants to wait 10 minutes, or an hour it makes no difference to me, stick the bayonet in the ground and come back in a year if you want. At least they will be making an informed decision. It is up to the individual to make that choice for themselves. There are no documented cases ever found of a non-blackpowder firearm ever exceeding 1 second for a hangfire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WardenWolf 6 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) Other than black powder firearms, Can anyone document a Hangfire having a greater duration than 1 second.I'll not hold my breath waiting for the answer. There may be one verifiable case of it. It was in one of those dumb criminals books that were put out about 10 years ago, and I'm pretty sure it could be confirmed if I could find the book and get the relevant information such as the date and police department. Story went like this: a guy burglarized an old WWII vet's house, and stole, among other things, his old Colt .45 service pistol. The owner reported it stolen, along with the serial number. The thief then robbed a gas station. The gas station attendant didn't cooperate to his liking, and he pulled the trigger. *Click* went the gun. The WWII vet had his WWII pistol loaded with vintage WWII ammunition, and the book then described exactly what a hang-fire was. The robber, according to the gas station attendant, went "Huh?" and turned the gun around to look down the barrel. The gun then discharged and dispatched the would-be murderer. Police verified the serial number and returned it to the vet. Check this out as well, post #9 in this thread: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3064358 There's someone else saying they saw a significant delay with WWII .45 ammo, which tells me the above story is indeed well within the realm of possibility. Let's face the truth: multiple people have reported that old ammunition, usually of WWII stock, can indeed hangfire beyond 1 second. Keep in mind that this ammunition was normally expected to be used within months of being produced and thus certain preserving methods such as sealing the primers to the case body were omitted. Wartime production in general also tended to be a bit more crude than the more careful peacetime production. As a result, there is a much greater tendency for such ammo to degrade over time. What lesson can we learn here? Don't use leftover WWII ammo. This ammo was never intended to still be in use 70 years from the date of production, and it wasn't built to the same quality level that peacetime production ammo is. Unless there is no other way to avoid it, buy new production ammo if you want to shoot that old classic. Edited October 17, 2008 by Mike the Wolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) From the NRA II. Range Safety Rules The instructor should thoroughly explain the following safety rules before any range exercises are conducted. Observe all standard rules pertaining to pistols. The cardinal rules are: Treat all guns as though they are loaded. Never point a gun at anyone. Keep the finger off the trigger until the pistol is pointed toward the target. Specific rules pertaining to your handgun and this range: All safety precautions will be adhered to and enforced at all times. Strictest discipline will be maintained. Carelessness and thoughtlessness cannot and will not be tolerated during handgun training. Immediately, on picking up a pistol, you should open the action and check to see that it is unloaded—always check it again. When handgun is given to or accepted from anyone, the action is to be open. Always keep the action open when the handgun is on the shooting bench or stand, not actually being fired. Load only after position is taken at the firing point and command to load has been given. Unload when and as instructed. Keep the pistol pointed downrange at all times. Keep the trigger finger outside of the trigger guard when handling the pistol. No smoking on the firing line. No talking on the firing line, except by the coach or instructor. When using a revolver, never let the hammer down on a live cartridge without placing the thumb in front of hammer and releasing the trigger. (Instructor should again explain and demonstrate this safety grip.) In case of a misfire with a firearm (not air gun), keep the pistol pointed downrange at least 10 seconds, call out "hang-fire," and keep the firearm pointed downrange before opening the action. This is necessary should a hang-fire occur. (A hang-fire is a delayed firing of a cartridge.) In double-action revolver shooting, misfires are generally caused by a light blow of the hammer. Never fire a succeeding shot after a malfunction without first unloading and checking the barrel for obstructions. (If any obstruction is in the barrel, ask for assistance from the instructor.) Never leave the firing point without first unloading your handgun. Do not go in front of the firing line until the firing line has been cleared and the command is given to go forward. You cannot dry fire on the range except under supervision of the instructor or coach. Pay strict attention to the instructor and coach. They will instruct you exactly what to do during the range exercise. From my original post: Keep the muzzle pointed downrange, give it a full 10 seconds, before removing the cartridge.Once the cartridge has been removed, and the firearm made safe, inspect the bore for any blockages before continuing to shoot. Edited October 17, 2008 by gunnysmith Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 It took me a while to remember were it was written in the rules. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaddis 1,689 Posted October 18, 2008 Report Share Posted October 18, 2008 How bout this for a "hangfire" scenario (could have sworn NRA reporting on something similar)? A careless reloader tumbles his brass in corncob media, but is not careful in checking if flash holes are clean. Primes cases, charges with powder, seats bullet, goes to range to shoot. Fires round, primer ignites corn cob media plugging flash hole, smolders for awhile until still-glowing corn cob media scrap falls through flash hole into powder charge, powder charge then ignites. Sounds plausible? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 A primer alone may have enough power to drive the bullet into the bore. It will drive the tumbling media through the flash hole. It will in pistol calibers I know that for sure. That is why the bore is always checked, and cleared if necessary, after any type of misfire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunnysmith 4 Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 In a .45 ACP a 200 gr bullet is into the bore about 1" from just the primer alone. My powder measure hung up on a progressive loader. To the range with a 3/8 wooden dowel a plastic mallet and about 75 rounds of .45 ACP. Shoot click hammer the slug out, Shoot click hammer the slug out, Shoot click hammer the slug out. There were about 10 rounds with no powder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheGlobule 1 Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Gun goes click... Tap the mag, rack the slide, squeeze the trigger, bang! Failed cartridge stayed about 1 second in the gun after going click. Gun goes click again instead of bang... Rip the mag from the gun, insert fresh mag, rack the slide, squeeze the trigger, bang! Gun goes click again instead of bang... I really have a bad day, haven't I? Transfert gun to weak hand, draw back-up weapon (gun, knife...) and back to work... Don't give a rat ass about why gun goes click, just make it go bang again... That's my story and I'll stick to it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jpnorris87 3 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 i have had hang fires on nazi 39 8 mm that were over a second a few as long as ten seconds back when VIC`s sold it many a year ago ,i have never had a reload hang fire in over 41 years, it only happens with very old ammo and just because it hasen`t happened to you means NOTHING I repeat: It has nothing to do with winning or losing a interet argument. It has to do with fact verus fiction. Each person should be able to decide for themselves with the infornation available. If someone wants to wait 10 minutes, or an hour it makes no difference to me, stick the bayonet in the ground and come back in a year if you want. At least they will be making an informed decision. It is up to the individual to make that choice for themselves. There are no documented cases ever found of a non-blackpowder firearm ever exceeding 1 second for a hangfire. Im not trying to insult anybody and Im pretty new here, but Ive been shooting for about 15yrs now. Im currently deployed with 6-17 CAV in Mosul, Iraq. An OH-58D came back to us with a jammed .50cal. The E-5 (he has been doing his job for about 4yrs) Armt Dawg goes out to work on the gun. Pops the top on the gun and the round goes off in his face. Luckily his eyes were fine. He looked like he had got shot with bird shot in the face!!! That round sat in the gun for at least 20mins. Thing to learn from this incident, always wear eye pro and if your gun does go click.....wait......eject the round and get rid of it. Dont be the guy that puts a .308 round in his pocket and it blows up 10min later. Just my $.02 and if you want proof, Ill see if I can find pics of the guys face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 (edited) I've not experienced a hang-fire round, but to answer the question of what to do with a round that doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger..... I had a bunch of 9mm reloads that had faulty primers. Probably 1 in 5 wouldn't go off. I tried them in different firearms with the same result. So rather than having a bunch of potential mini-explosives sitting on the ground, I got out a post hole digger and made a 3 or 4 foot deep hole and put a large section of PVC pipe into it, sticking up about 3 feet. I even put a funnel looking piece on it. When a round went click, it went into the hole. I suppose if you were right over the hole and a round went off, you could get hurt, but that's why I added the PVC (to make it hard to stand directly over the hole). Corbin Edited March 28, 2009 by Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SCBOWLES 0 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) I don,t care what experience you have, delayed fire or ( hang fire happens ) I know this from personal experience. I bought a 1903 a3 an Enfield #5 and a .30 carbine from a close friend of my fathers. They also came with a box of various ammo. First time we shot them (I can,t rember if it was the enfield or the 1903) after 2 or 3 shots pulled the trigger and click. nothing happened I just kept the rifle pointed down the range and a few seconds later Boom. This happened aleast 3 more times. The remaining ammo has been retired. Point is If you pull the trigger and it just goes click. Wait a few seconds 10 at least You don,t want to be the dum ass to have a round go of in your face just because (you don,t believe in delayed fire or hang fire ) Of cousre that all goes out the window if some one is shooting at you. better to have a loose round go off than to get shot. To all vets serving past or present Thank you for the service and sacrifice you have given for the millions of us that you have never met. Edited April 24, 2009 by scarey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SCBOWLES 0 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Oh by the way when a loose round goes off the brass goes flying not the bullet and not very far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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